CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[GKJ]

Why do you think they owe you an explanation? Why does anyone, besides the commissioner, need a play by play?

Because the question was asked and Bettman never misses an opportunity tell the media why the situation in Arizona is better than they know.

 

[Stumbledore]

I don't think he realizes teams don't just land, check in to a hotel and then play a game and leave. I have a friend who plays in the NHL, does this happen? Sometimes. But often when on road trips they come in to a city a day or two before a game or while on a longer roadtrip they may spend 2-3 days in a city. Downtime in places like Winnipeg would suck.....most teams stay at a hotel in the middle of downtown where its a cesspool of drug addicts, homeless people, hookers and in winter everything is grey/brown coloured covered in dirt and grim from winter driving/salt/gravel. The players are often left to Uber or walk around to check things out. Did I mention Winnipeg is the crime capital of Canada? So downtown is often sirens, cop cars, gun shots, stabbings and all things inbetween.

The nearest decent mall would be about a 20 minute drive from where they stay, fancy restaurants exist but are scattered all over. Nightlife is also pretty crap in Winnipeg and I doubt any NHLer would want to risk going to clubs or pubs in Winnipeg due to being identified pretty quickly and then bombarded with people.

So of course its the worst....who wants to go to a city like that and on top of it...most of the NHL season its -20 degrees Celsius or colder.

Also....Jets are floating in the top of the league so come to that and then likely lose.

Too many things are wrong in this completely laughable post for me to correct. But as someone who has lived in this city for half a century, I have to ask: if it's this terrible, why are you still here?

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

I'm a Canadian and hope the Coyotes stay and thrive. Big market, long hockey history, and if they add Houston can make increased play to grow in the Hispanic market and even court fans in Mexico. Main reason the smaller market Canadian teams have suffered really is the exchange rate. Hate to see any city lose a team but that's why and Canadian fans shouldn't wish that on any city (unless they want others suggesting maybe move the Flames back to Atlanta and then move Winnipeg to Calgary and call them the Cowboys, and Ottawa to Quebec as the Nordiques - that would at least get some original identities back!)

 

[dj4aces]

I'm a Canadian and hope the Coyotes stay and thrive. Big market, long hockey history, and if they add Houston can make increased play to grow in the Hispanic market and even court fans in Mexico. Main reason the smaller market Canadian teams have suffered really is the exchange rate. Hate to see any city lose a team but that's why and Canadian fans shouldn't wish that on any city (unless they want others suggesting maybe move the Flames back to Atlanta and then move Winnipeg to Calgary and call them the Cowboys, and Ottawa to Quebec as the Nordiques - that would at least get some original identities back!)

Completely tangential to the thread, but I've already seen folks in Calgary saying they'd rather see the Flames move back here than have public money be used on a new barn. I can't attest to whether there's a sense of sarcasm to it (hard to read too far into it if it's just a one-liner on Twitter or whatever), but still.

That said, I never want to see a city lose their franchise. Even though Calgary and Winnipeg both have what was once here, I'd prefer the fans there get to enjoy them for many more generations to come.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Completely tangential to the thread, but I've already seen folks in Calgary saying they'd rather see the Flames move back here than have public money be used on a new barn. I can't attest to whether there's a sense of sarcasm to it (hard to read too far into it if it's just a one-liner on Twitter or whatever), but still.

That said, I never want to see a city lose their franchise. Even though Calgary and Winnipeg both have what was once here, I'd prefer the fans there get to enjoy them for many more generations to come.

I can see both sides to the argument. But I don't buy the argument about not spending public money on a stadium. Cities and municipalities toss out subsidies all the time for development projects, so to cut the line at stadiums(or entertainment districts) is a bit absurd to me.

 

[oldunclehue]

Too many things are wrong in this completely laughable post for me to correct. But as someone who has lived in this city for half a century, I have to ask: if it's this terrible, why are you still here?

I don’t live in Winnipeg. And explain to me what’s wrong?

 

[Llama19]

I can see both sides to the argument. But I don't buy the argument about not spending public money on a stadium. Cities and municipalities toss out subsidies all the time for development projects, so to cut the line at stadiums(or entertainment districts) is a bit absurd to me.

Arizona Coyotes on the hunt for state trust land north of Loop 101 in northeast Phoenix

To quote:

"City Councilmembers Waring, Kevin Robinson, Laura Pastor and Debra Stark indicated they were open to the Coyotes coming to Phoenix but not particularly willing to offer incentives to attract the team.

Robinson said it would depend on the circumstances, but no matter what didn't believe taxpayers would support financial incentives.

Waring said given the team's inability to find a home in Tempe — voters rejected a ballot measure to bring the team there — he didn't see why Phoenix would have any competition or reason to sweeten a deal.

Vice Mayor Yassamin Ansari said the only incentive she would consider is assistance with public infrastructure. Otherwise, she said through a spokesperson, taxpayers don't want tax dollars going to millionaires, and there are other higher priorities, such as housing."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2023/12/07/arizona-coyotes-looking-at-northeast-phoenix-for-new-area/71803365007/

 

[Llama19]

Here is the link to the current draft agenda...
for the Arizona State Land Department's meeting for February 8...

land.az.gov/sites/default/files/2024-01/DraftAgenda%2002_08_2024.pdf

There are no attachments...yet...because of this statement in the agenda..."Please note: The attachment with a detailed listing of agenda items I, II, and III will be available in the Board Clerk’s office after Monday, January 29, 2024 or at least twenty-four (24) hours prior to the scheduled meeting."

 

[Stumbledore]

I don’t live in Winnipeg. And explain to me what’s wrong?

Then if you don't live in Winnipeg, why are you such a bitchy expert on the city?

"downtown where its a cesspool of drug addicts, homeless people, hookers" Methinks the gentleman is exaggerating for effect. Every NHL city has drug addicts, homeless people and hookers and Winnipeg has far less than most of them.

"The nearest decent mall would be about a 20 minute drive from where they stay" A taxi ride from the Fairmont to Polo Park takes less than 10 minutes. But visit a few NHL cities and see how many visiting teams stay within a 20 minute drive to a mall. Damn few.

"fancy restaurants exist but are scattered all over" As opposed to other cities where they group them all together? C'mon, dude this is pathetic. Velvet Glove, Bailey's, Hy's are all within a 3 minute indoor walk of each other.

"any NHLer would [not] want to risk going to clubs or pubs in Winnipeg due to being identified pretty quickly and then bombarded with people" Most visiting teams stay at the Fairmont; the hotel provides private dining rooms with 3 different menus. Many visiting players go to Hy's because it doesn't require going outside. Many of them visit Bailey's which is right across the street. Both Hy's and Bailey's are world class and patrons do NOT bother the players, according to one of Bailey's bar staff I know personally.

"most of the NHL season its -20 degrees Celsius or colder." The NHL regular season is 191 days long. Winnipeg had 18 days last winter below -20C. This year, so far, only 6 days below -20C. It takes only seconds to do a search on Environment Canada so don't make shit up.

"Winnipeg is the crime capital of Canada? So downtown is often sirens, cop cars, gun shots, stabbings and all things inbetween." Yep, in a city of 800,000 you do hear sirens and see cop cars. Gun shots and stabbings? Dude, you really should stay downtown for a few weeks and count how many gun shots you hear. Crime capital? It depends on whose stats you cherry pick:

Top 10 Most Dangerous Cities In Canada 2023

Top 10 most dangerous cities in Canada 2023: Canada is known for its welcoming charm, friendly citizens, and stunning natural beauty.

immigrationnewscanada.ca

To save you reading it, Winnipeg ranks 8th on the list.

Or perhaps you'd prefer:

Major Crimes on the Rise in Toronto​

Besides most firearms-related offences, the number of major crimes committed in Toronto is rising or, in many cases, surging. According to the TPS’s Public Safety Data Portal, the year-to-date number of reported major crimes is nearing 32,000, a 20.6% increase over last year’s reporting period. One of the few bright spots is homicide, which is experiencing a 4.9% decline. Major crime categories displaying significant increases include assault, up almost 17%; auto theft, almost 40%; theft over $5,000, 26%; Sexual violations, 12.3%; and breaking and entering, 16.7%.


So, taking you up on your invite, I've explained to you what was wrong in your posting. Whether it actually registers with you or not is out of my control.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Then if you don't live in Winnipeg, why are you such a bitchy expert on the city?

If I recall correctly @oldunclehue lives in Manitoba outside of Winnipeg.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Arizona Coyotes on the hunt for state trust land north of Loop 101 in northeast Phoenix

To quote:

"City Councilmembers Waring, Kevin Robinson, Laura Pastor and Debra Stark indicated they were open to the Coyotes coming to Phoenix but not particularly willing to offer incentives to attract the team.

Robinson said it would depend on the circumstances, but no matter what didn't believe taxpayers would support financial incentives.

Waring said given the team's inability to find a home in Tempe — voters rejected a ballot measure to bring the team there — he didn't see why Phoenix would have any competition or reason to sweeten a deal.

Vice Mayor Yassamin Ansari said the only incentive she would consider is assistance with public infrastructure. Otherwise, she said through a spokesperson, taxpayers don't want tax dollars going to millionaires, and there are other higher priorities, such as housing."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2023/12/07/arizona-coyotes-looking-at-northeast-phoenix-for-new-area/71803365007/

Yeah, I was merely commenting on public opinion, not the actual municipalities themselves. People here complain about funds for stadiums, but turn a blind eye to all the other money that is allocated to other projects, be it subsidies, tax breaks, etc. That was the point of my comment, not what the city of Phoenix is actually doing.

 

[MeHateHe]

Why does every Coyotes thread wind up with a treatise on Winnipeg?

 

[Stumbledore]

Why does every Coyotes thread wind up with a treatise on Winnipeg?

Maybe it's because the Jets did a trans into Coyotes?

If I recall correctly @oldunclehue lives in Manitoba outside of Winnipeg.

And every country mouse looks at the big, evil city and conjures up images of hookers and addicts and bears oh my.

 

[MeHateHe]

Maybe it's because the Jets did a trans into Coyotes?

28 years ago.

28 years ago.

28 damn years ago.

A year before the reigning Hart Trophy champion was born.

Winnipeg got the Jets back in 2011.

I'm gonna start waggling my finger now, because now I'm just mad.

 

[Stumbledore]

28 years ago.

28 years ago.

28 damn years ago.

A year before the reigning Hart Trophy champion was born.

Winnipeg got the Jets back in 2011.

I'm gonna start waggling my finger now, because now I'm just mad.

Too bad it's too early in the day to start drinking.

 

[oldunclehue]

Then if you don't live in Winnipeg, why are you such a bitchy expert on the city?

"downtown where its a cesspool of drug addicts, homeless people, hookers" Methinks the gentleman is exaggerating for effect. Every NHL city has drug addicts, homeless people and hookers and Winnipeg has far less than most of them.

"The nearest decent mall would be about a 20 minute drive from where they stay" A taxi ride from the Fairmont to Polo Park takes less than 10 minutes. But visit a few NHL cities and see how many visiting teams stay within a 20 minute drive to a mall. Damn few.

"fancy restaurants exist but are scattered all over" As opposed to other cities where they group them all together? C'mon, dude this is pathetic. Velvet Glove, Bailey's, Hy's are all within a 3 minute indoor walk of each other.

"any NHLer would [not] want to risk going to clubs or pubs in Winnipeg due to being identified pretty quickly and then bombarded with people" Most visiting teams stay at the Fairmont; the hotel provides private dining rooms with 3 different menus. Many visiting players go to Hy's because it doesn't require going outside. Many of them visit Bailey's which is right across the street. Both Hy's and Bailey's are world class and patrons do NOT bother the players, according to one of Bailey's bar staff I know personally.

"most of the NHL season its -20 degrees Celsius or colder." The NHL regular season is 191 days long. Winnipeg had 18 days last winter below -20C. This year, so far, only 6 days below -20C. It takes only seconds to do a search on Environment Canada so don't make shit up.

"Winnipeg is the crime capital of Canada? So downtown is often sirens, cop cars, gun shots, stabbings and all things inbetween." Yep, in a city of 800,000 you do hear sirens and see cop cars. Gun shots and stabbings? Dude, you really should stay downtown for a few weeks and count how many gun shots you hear. Crime capital? It depends on whose stats you cherry pick:

Top 10 Most Dangerous Cities In Canada 2023

Top 10 most dangerous cities in Canada 2023: Canada is known for its welcoming charm, friendly citizens, and stunning natural beauty.

immigrationnewscanada.ca

To save you reading it, Winnipeg ranks 8th on the list.

Or perhaps you'd prefer:

Major Crimes on the Rise in Toronto​

Besides most firearms-related offences, the number of major crimes committed in Toronto is rising or, in many cases, surging. According to the TPS’s Public Safety Data Portal, the year-to-date number of reported major crimes is nearing 32,000, a 20.6% increase over last year’s reporting period. One of the few bright spots is homicide, which is experiencing a 4.9% decline. Major crime categories displaying significant increases include assault, up almost 17%; auto theft, almost 40%; theft over $5,000, 26%; Sexual violations, 12.3%; and breaking and entering, 16.7%.


So, taking you up on your invite, I've explained to you what was wrong in your posting. Whether it actually registers with you or not is out of my control.

8th among cities in Canada that aren’t major metropolitan areas, but first amongst the NHL cities in the country. I mean NHLers aren’t going to Thompson or Prince George while on road trips.

- polo park is not a nice mall. Better than Portage Place or KP but the outlet mall or St V would be the top ones for enjoyment and shopping.

Hys and Baileys are “world class”. Ok…..that’s a laugh.

- we are in El Niño of course it’s warmer this year. It’s a cold and Windy City…windchill happens and temps reflect that.

- crime….when I stay in the city it’s actually right downtown and all night you hear sirens, news media doesn’t help when every story is either about crime or racism in the city.

- NHL players are easily noticed in winnipegs social settings. People know players and faces and in a club or pub they are open to that. So your one friend said at Baileys Irish pub it doesn’t happen. Congrats?

Dude…don’t get so butt hurt that NHlers have agreed Winnipeg sucks to play in. It’s the worst of the worst. It’s ok. Be proud of your city for whatever reasons you want. I grew up there and left….lifes
Much better elsewhere for me and I HATE coming back. Hell last time I was there we tried to check out the forks, we walked along the river and saw 5 homeless encampments along the river, one had been on fire recently and there was three people shooting up got knows what drug in plain open….at the FORKS in the middle of the day. And this is supposed to be a world class public area like 3 blocks from where NHL teams stay.

Every city has issues but Winnipeg is proven to be the worst according to the players. So I do believe they agree with my assessment.

 

[Lions67]

He definitely has a grudge against Winnipeg.
I live here and I love the place!
He’s disgruntled. His opinion means nothing.
Just like mine.
I ignore his tripe

 

[Stumbledore]

8th among cities in Canada that aren’t major metropolitan areas, but first amongst the NHL cities in the country. I mean NHLers aren’t going to Thompson or Prince George while on road trips.

- polo park is not a nice mall. Better than Portage Place or KP but the outlet mall or St V would be the top ones for enjoyment and shopping.

Hys and Baileys are “world class”. Ok…..that’s a laugh.

- we are in El Niño of course it’s warmer this year. It’s a cold and Windy City…windchill happens and temps reflect that.

- crime….when I stay in the city it’s actually right downtown and all night you hear sirens, news media doesn’t help when every story is either about crime or racism in the city.

- NHL players are easily noticed in winnipegs social settings. People know players and faces and in a club or pub they are open to that. So your one friend said at Baileys Irish pub it doesn’t happen. Congrats?

I grew up there and left….lifes Much better elsewhere for me and I HATE coming back.

So you HATE Winnipeg, don't like Polo Park, don't agree with TripAdvisor or Expedia, and somehow elevate The Forks to a world class public area which it has never claimed to be. And even a blind man can see Bailey's is not an Irish pub. Get someone to show you how Google works and look at their website.

Tell me again why I bother replying to you?

Then again, don't bother. I won't.

He definitely has a grudge against Winnipeg.
I live here and I love the place!
He’s disgruntled. His opinion means nothing.
Just like mine.
I ignore his tripe

Yeah, I thought I could educate him but it was a waste of time. I'll follow your advice and ignore him.

 

[dj4aces]

I can see both sides to the argument. But I don't buy the argument about not spending public money on a stadium. Cities and municipalities toss out subsidies all the time for development projects, so to cut the line at stadiums(or entertainment districts) is a bit absurd to me.

The fact is, some folks really don't want their tax money spent on what might be seen as a frivolous and unnecessary expense, particularly because they feel like there's better things to be spending tax money on. There are other folks, of course, who don't mind it or would welcome a new building for events, etc, and others still who simply aren't paying attention or just don't care either way. The latter, I feel, is where most folks are on that whole thing.

Whether this is about public funds being granted to Meruelo to assist in building an arena in Arizona, or the Flames in Calgary, or even the subsidy (contingent on a franchise being awarded) that was announced last week here in Atlanta for a building, there will be residents who are in all three camps on this, and any government turnover could occur based on those public funds being (or not being, as the case may be) granted.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Phoenix also has tons of high-level big city sporting options already.

A brand new hockey arena is a tough sell for a government/taxpayer to support in the current local market.

 

[Major4Boarding]

As I'm getting older, I'm getting lazier.

Someone (or group) point me in the direction of land availability, in the Valley, greater than 40 acres, that if I had the scratch (straight up) I could buy.

Zoned Commercially, mind you. No referendums needed.

 

[Llama19]

As I'm getting older, I'm getting lazier.

Someone (or group) point me in the direction of land availability, in the Valley, greater than 40 acres, that if I had the scratch (straight up) I could buy.

Zoned Commercially, mind you. No referendums needed.

How about these...

www.landsearch.com/properties/phoenix-az/filter/size[min]=40

 

[Voight]

The players union isn’t building the arena.

Trade unions may have a say though.

Neither is Meruelo evidently.

 

[TheLegend]

Neither is Meruelo evidently.

A lot you don’t know…. But good try.

 

[mouser]

Mod: please cease the off topic Winnipeg discussion.