CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[TheLegend]

@PredsHead I’m noticing you finding this all amusing.

Care to expand?

 

[PredsHead]

@PredsHead I’m noticing you finding this all amusing.

Care to expand?

I'm sure you would just have my posts removed if I did.....

 

[TheLegend]

I'm sure you would just have my posts removed if I did.....

Depends on whether or not you want to address a subject itself or make it about me.

(EDIT: guess everyone knows the answer now)

 

[Llama19]

My concern is the cost….200 acres of prime real estate is going to cost a pretty penny.

How would it work, they apply to buy the land and it goes to auction?

This audio/article should help explain the process...

AZ state land sales are up this year. A peek inside how these auctions work

Source (Audio/article): kjzz.org/content/1862925/az-state-land-sales-are-year-peek-inside-how-these-auctions-work

Note the cost of just 48 acres in last paragraph...

 

[Devils 3silverones]

I'm sure you would just have my posts removed if I did.....

It happens like that hey?...

 

[oldunclehue]

This audio/article should help explain the process...

AZ state land sales are up this year. A peek inside how these auctions work

Source (Audio/article): kjzz.org/content/1862925/az-state-land-sales-are-year-peek-inside-how-these-auctions-work

Note the cost of just 48 acres in last paragraph...

Wow…. $56 million to $84 million that’s a jump.

So if that’s roughly cost….a 200 acre parcel would be a starting bid in the $225 million for that parcel.

And that’s if there is no bids. Wild

 

[Ernie]

Depends on whether or not you want to address a subject itself or make it about me.

(EDIT: guess everyone knows the answer now)

oh that's just hilarious.

 

[TheLegend]

This audio/article should help explain the process...

AZ state land sales are up this year. A peek inside how these auctions work

Source (Audio/article): kjzz.org/content/1862925/az-state-land-sales-are-year-peek-inside-how-these-auctions-work

Note the cost of just 48 acres in last paragraph...

$56 million and change if I'm reading it correctly?? (Edit: My mistake... $84 million)

Meruelo was going to pay $50 million and change for 46 acres in Tempe.

Land sale
 Developer will acquire and develop the 46 acres of city property in four phases.
 The developer will pay the initial purchase price of the land in two specific amounts for the land: $40 million for Phase 1A and $10.3 million for Phase 2A. The initial $40 million will be deposited and will be nonrefundable once remediation starts on that first phase of land.  Developer’s deposit will be used for remediation of the land. The developer will take title to land parcels after remediation is completed and once developer remediation funds are replenished by the Community Facilities District (CFD), further described below, will pay the city for the value of the land.

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/99461/638175974753400000

(Edit 2)
Sizable difference between open bidding on land and a negotiated land deal.

And people wonder why there's not enough low cost housing. Yikes.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

He's likely trying to get multiple parcels for resale.

Likely going to need that “collateral” to get anything done.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I'm sure you would just have my posts removed if I did.....

meh...depends on which mod is on duty when the report comes in...it is fun to drop a bomb in once in a while to see how long it takes sometimes, though.

 

[TheLegend]

In the AZ Central article above it states this application was filed in late June but appears to be updated mid January to have ties to the Coyotes.

Also the quote from Gutierrez

I can confirm that we have submitted an application,” Coyotes CEO Xavier Gutierrez told The Arizona Republic on Friday. “But ... I’m confirming with you that, as I’ve made very clear on a number of occasions, we are looking at multiple sites and we are not yet ready to announce which is the one that we are going to pursue as the primary one.”

Was the quote from this Friday, as in today? If so, why still mention they're looking at multiple sites? Surely they should be well past that stage by now.

I thought XG’s quote was odd myself and I’m not really buying it.

Maybe it was applicable last June, but not now IMO.

 

[Llama19]

Coyotes State Land Auction Flowchart...

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Coyotes State Land Auction Flowchart...

View attachment 814318

I mean, yes, that flowchart makes sense, in the fact that there's a long path ahead. but I completely disagree "move franchise" should be on the right.

"Continuing limbo" would be better.

 

[Ernie]

I mean, yes, that flowchart makes sense, in the fact that there's a long path ahead. but I completely disagree "move franchise" should be on the right.

"Continuing limbo" would be better.

Continuing limbo where the complaints get louder and louder about Mullett arena?

Here's some recent comments from Marty Walsh:

“I have serious concerns about Arizona,” Walsh said to reporters at the NHL All-Star media availability on Friday. “I’m extremely disappointed with the ownership of Arizona, with the president of Arizona (Xavier Gutierrez). They have not reached out to the NHLPA and talk to us about what the situation in Arizona is.

Walsh said since he took over as executive director in March 2023, he and the NHLPA have worked to grow the game in markets like Arizona, but that the franchise “doesn’t seem interested in having conversations with the union that represents the players that play on their team.”


“You can buy a piece of land. How long will it take you to permit the land? Do you need a referendum? Is there hazardous waste, do you need to remediate the land?” Walsh said. “So you can talk about buying land in Arizona and it can be 10 years before a shovel goes in the ground.

“How long do you wait to get a home? They’re playing in a college arena and they’re the second tenant in that arena,” Walsh continued. “This is not the way to run a business.”

NHLPA’s Marty Walsh ‘extremely concerned’ with Coyotes ownership over arena situation

The Coyotes are expected to play at Mullett Arena through the 2024-25 season.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

And recent comments from The Athletic's NHL player poll:

“That arena is dogs—,” one player said.

“Should never be in the NHL,” added another.

“It’s pathetic,” said a third. “It’s not The Show. Can’t take it seriously.”

Anonymous NHL player poll 2024: Who's the best player? Most overrated? Best goalie? Worst road city?

Best goalie? Player you'd most like to punch? Best and worst refs? Favorite and least favorite road cities? Nearly 200 NHL players weigh in.

theathletic.com

Dogs— Arena does have a nice ring to it.

 

[TheLegend]

Hmmmm….

That same Athletic article shows four other cities are worse locations than “dog——“

Two a LOT worse.

So we have four other places the players think is worse than a college arena in Arizona.

And Marty isn’t being entirely honest about this.

It’s been confirmed that the PA has never tried to contact the Meruelo’s since Walsh visited the arena in Tempe last year.

While Walsh expressed disappointment that the Coyotes had not updated him on their arena search, it should be noted that an NHLPA spokesperson confirmed to PHNX Sports’ Craig Morgan that Walsh has not called or requested any recent meetings with the Coyotes. The spokesperson said that Walsh was expecting updates based on a meeting with the Coyotes last year.

NHL All-Star blog: Bettman, Walsh address Coyotes arena saga

It was a busy day at the NHL All-Star festivities.

gophnx.com

So without knowing what actually transpired between them at that time we have somewhat of a “he said, they said” moment here.

 

[oldunclehue]

Hmmmm….

That same Athletic article shows four other cities are worse locations than “dog——“

Two a LOT worse.

View attachment 814367

So we have four other places the players think is worse than a college arena in Arizona.

I'm from Winnipeg and live 4 hours away,....I can vouch for this...no one likes Winnipeg. It's a disgusting place.



K so...an application has been submitted. You had mentioned they may get around a bidding process? Or will they have to go through the whole environmental studies etc and then wait for the bidding process?

I just wonder how deep AM's pockets are. This project and then the other major project he has going on for an ED in Reno at the same time. Just seems like a wild amount of risk to take at the same time. But he's the billionaire...not me.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Hmmmm….

That same Athletic article shows four other cities are worse locations than “dog——“

Two a LOT worse.

View attachment 814367

So we have four other places the players think is worse than a college arena in Arizona.

And Marty isn’t being entirely honest about this.

View attachment 814368

It’s been confirmed that the PA has never tried to contact the Meruelo’s since Walsh visited the arena in Tempe last year.

NHL All-Star blog: Bettman, Walsh address Coyotes arena saga

It was a busy day at the NHL All-Star festivities.

gophnx.com

So without knowing what actually transpired between them at that time we have somewhat of a “he said, they said” moment here.

Neat! Them four other cities have a rink. As bad as its must be in those cities. Considering a team. Lands, checks into a hotel , playes a hockey game, goes to airport and leaves.
Tough love i suppose. Imagine going to a city of millions and leaving just after the game ends... Or. Leaving ottawa or Winnipeg after the same amount of time.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Continuing limbo where the complaints get louder and louder about Mullett arena?

Completely, unironically, yes.

Walsh's comments are a giant nothing - we know the PA has felt like that since day 1 in Mullett.

And if this land proposal turns into an arena, they'll be there for multiple years more probably.

 

[Lions67]

Maybe by the time that an arena finally gets built the league will come back and offer an expansion team. Not sure if the NHL wants a 40 team league though

 

[hockeyguy0022]

It's not looking good coyotes fans. Bettman was awfully shaky, but Fertitta didn't want to pay 600-700 mil a few years ago, he's not going to want to pay now, that's forsure.

I'm not sure what's going to happen, but it seems the BOG is finally at it's end point.

​

 

[awfulwaffle]

Which asks the question of why they waited until after the press conference to confirm it.

Why do you think they owe you an explanation? Why does anyone, besides the commissioner, need a play by play?

 

[TheLegend]

Neat! Them four other cities have a rink. As bad as its must be in those cities. Considering a team. Lands, checks into a hotel , playes a hockey game, goes to airport and leaves.
Tough love i suppose. Imagine going to a city of millions and leaving just after the game ends... Or. Leaving ottawa or Winnipeg after the same amount of time.

You have expect some negative reaction from a few players about playing in a college size arena. (Especially when they come in and lose. )

I know it isn’t an ideal situation and neither do most Coyotes fans. But we’re making the best we can of it and just have to hope that “Miracle” comes through.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

It's not looking good coyotes fans. Bettman was awfully shaky, but Fertitta didn't want to pay 600-700 mil a few years ago, he's not going to want to pay now, that's forsure.

I'm not sure what's going to happen, but it seems the BOG is finally at it's end point.

​

I'm no Coyotes fan but I've heard this kind of shit countless times before. This team isn't dead until it's officially dead.

 

[TheLegend]

I'm from Winnipeg and live 4 hours away,....I can vouch for this...no one likes Winnipeg. It's a disgusting place.



K so...an application has been submitted. You had mentioned they may get around a bidding process? Or will they have to go through the whole environmental studies etc and then wait for the bidding process?

I just wonder how deep AM's pockets are. This project and then the other major project he has going on for an ED in Reno at the same time. Just seems like a wild amount of risk to take at the same time. But he's the billionaire...not me.

This is all I know so far.

Land Trust has a meeting scheduled for Feb. 8.

The parcel the Coyotes are supposed to be applying for is not on that agenda but could be added in as long as it’s 24 hours prior to the meeting. And if I have it correctly, that would be just to set the auction.

Re Reno: It’s a concern. But it’s on a property he already owns and from what I can recall XG mentioned that property has its own reserves to draw from that’s been building over the years. It’s also a multi-phase project that could take a decade to finish.

 

[oldunclehue]

You have expect some negative reaction from a few players about playing in a college size arena. (Especially when they come in and lose. )

I know it isn’t an ideal situation and neither do most Coyotes fans. But we’re making the best we can of it and just have to hope that “Miracle” comes through.

I don't think he realizes teams don't just land, check in to a hotel and then play a game and leave. I have a friend who plays in the NHL, does this happen? Sometimes. But often when on road trips they come in to a city a day or two before a game or while on a longer roadtrip they may spend 2-3 days in a city. Downtime in places like Winnipeg would suck.....most teams stay at a hotel in the middle of downtown where its a cesspool of drug addicts, homeless people, hookers and in winter everything is grey/brown coloured covered in dirt and grim from winter driving/salt/gravel. The players are often left to Uber or walk around to check things out. Did I mention Winnipeg is the crime capital of Canada? So downtown is often sirens, cop cars, gun shots, stabbings and all things inbetween.

The nearest decent mall would be about a 20 minute drive from where they stay, fancy restaurants exist but are scattered all over. Nightlife is also pretty crap in Winnipeg and I doubt any NHLer would want to risk going to clubs or pubs in Winnipeg due to being identified pretty quickly and then bombarded with people.

So of course its the worst....who wants to go to a city like that and on top of it...most of the NHL season its -20 degrees Celsius or colder.

Also....Jets are floating in the top of the league so come to that and then likely lose.