CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[TheLegend]

So he spoke once at one meeting. That's a far cry from what he should be doing. The fact that he can be in a room and people still ask where he is, shows he has a pr problem. People don't even recognize him.

When there is a perception right or wrong that you're a shady dude who can't be trusted, you have to be out there yourself and can't have other people doing your talking for you. You have to make people like you. People in Tempe voted to have a landfill instead of doing business with him and you know part of that is the perception of him as being untrustworthy. Now you can say all you want that The Athletic article was a hit piece and the not paying taxes in Glendale was an oversight etc. but him not being visible himself creates more problems. Its the epitome of an unforced error

It wasn't about a landfill. Tempe1st made it about "corrupt billionaire handouts" and that fell lock step with the sensitivities of the people who voted.

There was never a serious alternative idea from them for using the land. And when the city eventually has to clean it up and the residents are actually put on the hook for it, the last thing anyone will ever admit is.... "Hmmm.... maybe TED really wasn't that bad of an idea??"

And yes.... not paying taxes was a serious mistake. One the Coyotes have acknowledged over and over that it wasn't intentional. Didn't matter.... Glendale just simply weaponized it, and Tempe1st just carried it forward.

Damage was done. Nothing on Meruelo's part was going to alter that narrative.

 

[Shwan]

So he spoke once at one meeting. That's a far cry from what he should be doing. The fact that he can be in a room and people still ask where he is, shows he has a pr problem. People don't even recognize him.

Spoke at a meeting overwhelmingly attended by out of City Coyotes fans.

I have no idea what the team was thinking telling everyone to come to the June hearing, that was such a huge blessing to the no side showing North Tempe Residents "Hey look at all these rich white folk telling you how you should spend your tax money".

Also don't forget he has such a low profile the No side mistook him for *another* Alex Meruelo in Miami during the city debate and they still couldn't capitalize on it.

 

[aqib]

It wasn't about a landfill. Tempe1st made it about "corrupt billionaire handouts" and that fell lock step with the sensitivities of the people who voted.

There was never a serious alternative idea from them for using the land. And when the city eventually has to clean it up and the residents are actually put on the hook for it, the last thing anyone will ever admit is.... "Hmmm.... maybe TED really wasn't that bad of an idea??"

And yes.... not paying taxes was a serious mistake. One the Coyotes have acknowledged over and over that it wasn't intentional. Didn't matter.... Glendale just simply weaponized it, and Tempe1st just carried it forward.

Damage was done. Nothing on Meruelo's part was going to alter that narrative.

So you don't think that showing up and being more accessible could have helped the perception? You've got one side painting the guy as a corrupt and shady dude and his response is to almost never be on camera. Again contrast that to Shad Kahn who had to deal with racism, islamophobia, and the perception that he wasn't American enough (even though he had been in the US since he was 16).

 

[TheLegend]

Arizona Coyotes have homed in on 6 Phoenix-area locations. Here are the most and least likely

Locations:

- Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community
- Mesa (2, northern and southern sides)
- Chandler
- The least likely options: Scottsdale and Gilbert

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/mesa/2023/06/30/where-might-the-coyotes-move-in-the-phoenix-area/70370978007/

That first line is a little misleading.

They haven't "homed in" on anything yet. The article provides speculation on a half dozen or possible leading candidates based on the reporters making inquires to several cities and a local real estate expert.

Here's where I feel the article drops the ball a little...

1) Coyotes will be looking at private land first. So there's no need to contact a city until a request for infrastructure is needed. Remember they are looking to avoid any public vote. So if the city is saying they haven't been contacted that doesn't mean it won't eventually happen.

2) Same situation with county islands.

3) The tribes are notoriously quiet when it comes to any sort of negotiating. They will give you the courtesy response, but until they actually announce something, good luck getting anything out of them.

 

[PredsHead]

Politics 101 really, when a vote starts being about a person, you really need to get that person front and center to dispell any mischaracterization.

Those "Billionaire rapes city" posters, while small, did demonstrate that there was at least a portion of the city that made this election about Meruelo.

Yeah once the opposition started the corrupt billionaire angle on Meruelo and his best counter was to send a cease and desist letter to the opposition, I knew they were in real trouble on the vote. That was before the Sky Harbor lawsuit which only made it more likely the vote would fail.

I'm still curious about the timing of those two letters sent from Tempe's now former city manager to Phoenix. Something triggered those to be sent and they had to know that Sky Harbor would immediately sue and make a public show out of it when they did. Why send the letters if you know they only thing to come out of them will be negative publicity for a project that is about to go before a public referendum?

 

[Shwan]

There was never a serious alternative idea from them for using the land. And when the city eventually has to clean it up and the residents are actually put on the hook for it, the last thing anyone will ever admit is.... "Hmmm.... maybe TED really wasn't that bad of an idea??"

Phoenix Business Journal ran some articles almost 2 years ago that give the verified timeline of events showing this is wrong:

July 2019 - Alex Meruelo Becomes Coyotes Majority Owner.

Early 2020 - Meruelo meets with Tempe Mayor Mitchell and the city/team stay in contact since.

June 8 2020 - Alex Gutierrez named CEO of Coyotes.

July 16 2020 - Gutierrez tells Tempe he will have an arena Proposal for Tempe by Labor Day 2020.

September 8 2020 - Coyotes and Tempe agree to an NDA and hire Matt Jensen to assist in finalizing deal.

June 2021 - Tempe’s Engineering Department releases report identifying the compost site for potential private development.

July 2021 - Tempe publishes Request for Proposals for compost site with the stipulation that any respondent must be affiliated with a professional sports team. Only Meruelo and Bluebird Development respond to RFP and are selected.

The City has never signaled the land being open to development until the Coyotes came along and the City released a highly restrictive RFP so that only they could respond to it. Now that the genie is out of the bottle they could easily release an open RFP for the land and they would receive plenty of highly competitive offers.

That was the No side's argument, there was not a fair process for the land. Also like to note here for all the Coyotes fans' jokes, Tempe's Rio Salado Master Plan does show that the desired use for that land includes a park, as the section of the river is to become a Riparian reserve. Obviously this isn't a binding document but instead of having serious conversations about it, the Coyotes and their fans decided hubris and derision were the best course of action.

In fall 2018, Tempe adopted the Rio Salado and Beach Park Master Plan, a comprehensive planning document that provides improvement recommendations that will shape the area over the next 20 to 30 years. The plan is a collection of maps and overlays that capture the ideas and recommendations that the city has received for the long-term vision of the area. There is no funding attached to any of the proposed ideas.

Finally, it might not be until the other side of this recession but that land will be valuable enough for someone to shoulder the Remediation costs like Vestar did with the Tempe Marketplace site a few decades ago.

Six landfills were found on site, along with buried 50-gallon drums of chemicals. Septic systems were employed since the businesses didn't receive city services. Methane gas rose from the earth.

The city and Tempe Marketplace developer Vestar shouldered much of the nearly $40 million cost of cleanup, though Tempe did receive grants and loans totaling $8 million from the U.S. Housing and Urban Development and the Brownfield Economic Development Initiative.

And we know the only time any form of toxic samples on the landfills was 2007 when *one* sample had it. We also know only *one* of the Coyotes samples has trash below the waterline as well.

The last time dangerous levels of toxins were found was in 2007. Just one of 25 soil samples collected for a study that year contained cancer-causing benzene and lead. Both are components of gasoline. The benzene has since decayed, according to Pearson. But lead doesn't break down.

Some have raised concerns about plastics seeping into groundwater because the landfill isn't lined to prevent leakage. No evidence exists that that has happened, but the Coyotes' study found one instance of trash that had made its way below the water table, and four where it was less than 10 feet away. The other 19 samples were either garbage-free or had trash that was far above the water.

So there's no urgent need for the city to pay for cleanup on their own, if there was they would have done another study sometime between 2007 and now.

 

[aqib]

He addressed the issues when they came up, and quickly paid outstanding items. He paid ASU UP FRONT for the annex. Again, you are making too much of nothing.

I'm willing to bet it was because people heard "taxes", and not because of the kind of person AM is as to why people voted no......

Of course he paid up front for the Annex. ASU wasn't going to pay for an Annex they didn't need but for the Coyotes.

We all know that this guy has an image problem. If you think that keeping a low profile is an ok way to go about dealing with it, well we'll have to agree to disagree

 

[Shwan]

I'm still curious about the timing of those two letters sent from Tempe's now former city manager to Phoenix. Something triggered those to be sent and they had to know that Sky Harbor would immediately sue and make a public show out of it when they did. Why send the letters if you know they only thing to come out of them will be negative publicity for a project that is about to go before a public referendum?

Story Time!

So this really starts in June 2022 when the Coyotes had their first hearing with the City.

Nick Wood gave this dumb fiery speech to rebut what Sky harbor said. 2 things stood on this speech: First was the Coyotes said the DNL lines have never been officially updated, the second was when he tried to pretend this was about the center runway expansion. He posted this picture:

Now some catastrophic mistakes he made on this:
1. This wasn't a secret, Sky Harbor posted this in 2019 when the CAMP was approved.

2. Runway expansion would have helped his case as it would have meant arriving planes could "shoot" for touchdown a few hundred feet to the west to stay higher up over TED.

The third is the most damning and that is the FAA usually deems airport CAMPs as official documents for them because they have to approve them.

Phoenix Mayor Kate Gallego and members of the Phoenix City Council have voted to send the Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport’s Comprehensive Asset Management Plan (CAMP) to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for review and approval. The mayor and council approved the Airport’s roadmap for the future during the June 11, 2019 Policy Session.

Many people thought Sky Harbor was going to immediately sue Tempe once Wood made his speech but Phoenix went the ultra dick route lol.

Now I'm not sure how much the FAA was involved but Phoenix played ball with Tempe and waited until the FAA responded to them in January 2023.

This correspondence is responding to the City of Phoenix’s request for clarification on the 65 DNL noise
contours for Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport (PHX).The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) previously reviewed and accepted the 1999 Part 150 Noise Exposure Maps (NEM) for PHX. The FAA has also reviewed and accepted the 2019 Comprehensive Asset Management Program (CAMP) Off Airport Land Use Map, Exhibit 2-15. The FAA uses and recognizes the 2019 CAMP 65 DNL noise contours when making land use compatibility determinations surrounding PHX.

Phoenix now has Tempe dead to rights. So now Tempe starts negotiations with Phoenix up until March, when the City Manager stops. Why? No idea as the IGA plainly says the FAA is the arbiter of the agreement, maybe Tempe was going to sue the FAA?

Either way it was very cold hearted for Phoenix.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Of course he paid up front for the Annex. ASU wasn't going to pay for an Annex they didn't need but for the Coyotes.

We all know that this guy has an image problem. If you think that keeping a low profile is an ok way to go about dealing with it, well we'll have to agree to disagree

Yeah, the guy that won Man of the Year by the Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce has an image problem. Give me a break. The Coyotes have addressed every report from The Athletic and outstanding bills quickly after it was known to them. And again, Gutierrez has been the face of the franchise, talking about those issues and how they were rectified. If you want a 1 on 1 with the guy so bad, why not go sit outside his house and wait for him to come home?

Official Site of the National Hockey League | NHL.com

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

 

[PredsHead]

Story Time!

So this really starts in June 2022 when the Coyotes had their first hearing with the City.

Nick Wood gave this dumb fiery speech to rebut what Sky harbor said. 2 things stood on this speech: First was the Coyotes said the DNL lines have never been officially updated, the second was when he tried to pretend this was about the center runway expansion. He posted this picture:

View attachment 724178

Now some catastrophic mistakes he made on this:
1. This wasn't a secret, Sky Harbor posted this in 2019 when the CAMP was approved.

2. Runway expansion would have helped his case as it would have meant arriving planes could "shoot" for touchdown a few hundred feet to the west to stay higher up over TED.

The third is the most damning and that is the FAA usually deems airport CAMPs as official documents for them because they have to approve them.



Many people thought Sky Harbor was going to immediately sue Tempe once Wood made his speech but Phoenix went the ultra dick route lol.

Now I'm not sure how much the FAA was involved but Phoenix played ball with Tempe and waited until the FAA responded to them in January 2023.



Phoenix now has Tempe dead to rights. So now Tempe starts negotiations with Phoenix up until March, when the City Manager stops. Why? No idea as the IGA plainly says the FAA is the arbiter of the agreement, maybe Tempe was going to sue the FAA?

Either way it was very cold hearted for Phoenix.

I guess my point was since Sky Harbor's position never really changed, what changed on the Tempe side to need to send those letters? It seemed the Sky Harbor was providing the data requested by Tempe and was even at a working session to try and provide more data to Tempe in February, so why the change in tactics from Tempe at the 11th hour when its likely to blow up in your face? Even if Sky Harbor had let it be known that they would sue if they didn't have an agreement by X date, why not force them to make the first move? I just can't think of what sending those letters was actually supposed to accomplish other than triggering a lawsuit from Sky Harbor.

I thought about Tempe perhaps suing the FAA as well, but if that was a possibility wouldn't Tempe have done that much earlier in the process? I don't see what they would have to gain by waiting until a month before the ballots went out to effectively call off negotiations.

Sky Harbor did a great job of showing their communications with Tempe on this project publicly, so not sure how Tempe thought it wouldn't get out that they sent the letters and then tried to play the victim card in the media when Sky Harbor sued. Tempe Entertainment District | Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

If you want a 1 on 1 with the guy so bad, why not go sit outside his house and wait for him to come home?

We're not all Leafs fans

 

[Shwan]

I guess my point was since Sky Harbor's position never really changed, what changed on the Tempe side to need to send those letters?

My personal (tin foil hat) theory is that it was due to Tempe knowing the Vote was going to fail. The amended IGA basically said Tempe could have TED but all other housing construction in the 65 DNL had to end.

Now if you think TED is going to be built that's a fair deal. If you think TED isn't going to be built AND you have to piss off all the other developers in the area, you absolutely walk away and fight it.

The letters came at the end of March and that was when the Coyotes kept saying they were going to do their campaigning for the Yes vote.

When that never materialized the City probably saw the writing on the wall and hedged their bets thinking if by some chance it does go through they'll just sign the amended IGA but if it doesn't then they still have a chance to fight it.

 

[TheLegend]

Phoenix Business Journal ran some articles almost 2 years ago that give the verified timeline of events showing this is wrong:



The City has never signaled the land being open to development until the Coyotes came along and the City released a highly restrictive RFP so that only they could respond to it. Now that the genie is out of the bottle they could easily release an open RFP for the land and they would receive plenty of highly competitive offers.

That was the No side's argument, there was not a fair process for the land. Also like to note here for all the Coyotes fans' jokes, Tempe's Rio Salado Master Plan does show that the desired use for that land includes a park, as the section of the river is to become a Riparian reserve. Obviously this isn't a binding document but instead of having serious conversations about it, the Coyotes and their fans decided hubris and derision were the best course of action.



View attachment 724143

Finally, it might not be until the other side of this recession but that land will be valuable enough for someone to shoulder the Remediation costs like Vestar did with the Tempe Marketplace site a few decades ago.





And we know the only time any form of toxic samples on the landfills was 2007 when *one* sample had it. We also know only *one* of the Coyotes samples has trash below the waterline as well.




So there's no urgent need for the city to pay for cleanup on their own, if there was they would have done another study sometime between 2007 and now.

Actually... Lauren Kuby boasted about a park there on social media. Tempe1st and their allies used it as campaign fodder. That's how it became a "Coyotes fan joke" not the other way around.

I'm also aware of the PHX Business Journal articles..... I, along with Llama posted links to those articles here and we both have referred to them several times.

Fact remains (no matter how you want to spin it).... sooner or later the landfill will have to be cleaned up. It could be months or even decades from now. It won't matter.

It'll be up to the city to pay for the clean up.

So unless the city comes up with a plan similar to TED where they get whatever developer to keep the costs within some sort of CFD guess who's pockets it will come out of.... that's right. Tempe residents.

 

[Shwan]

Actually... Lauren Kuby boasted about a park there on social media. Tempe1st and their allies used it as campaign fodder. That's how it became a "Coyotes fan joke" not the other way around.

I'm also aware of the PHX Business Journal articles..... I, along with Llama posted links to those articles here and we both have referred to them several times.

Fact remains (no matter how you want to spin it).... sooner or later the landfill will have to be cleaned up. It could be months or even decades from now. It won't matter.

It'll be up to the city to pay for the clean up.

So unless the city comes up with a plan similar to TED where they get whatever developer to keep the costs within some sort of CFD guess who's pockets it will come out of.... that's right. Tempe residents.

Goalposts moving again.

Edit:

Maybe I'm using the term wrong. Perhaps you can educate me on what term you would use when someone goes from "But no matter... you still have that landfill there....... tick tock..... tick tock....." to "It could be months or even decades from now. It won't matter."

or goes from "Of course they can take proposals..... where are they?" and "There was never a serious alternative idea from them for using the land" to acknowledging they have read an article which told them that the city has only ever dealt with the Coyotes regarding to this matter?

I can think of a few terms but I'll wait for you to let me know.

CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

Any project on that site is going to require some public funds. What Tempe and the Coyotes tried to was cover those costs using a method that protected the current Tempe residents from. The land fill has to be cleaned up and the clock on it is ticking. The water table is slowly encroaching...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[TheLegend]

Story Time!

So this really starts in June 2022 when the Coyotes had their first hearing with the City.

Nick Wood gave this dumb fiery speech to rebut what Sky harbor said. 2 things stood on this speech: First was the Coyotes said the DNL lines have never been officially updated, the second was when he tried to pretend this was about the center runway expansion. He posted this picture:

View attachment 724178

Now some catastrophic mistakes he made on this:
1. This wasn't a secret, Sky Harbor posted this in 2019 when the CAMP was approved.

2. Runway expansion would have helped his case as it would have meant arriving planes could "shoot" for touchdown a few hundred feet to the west to stay higher up over TED.

The third is the most damning and that is the FAA usually deems airport CAMPs as official documents for them because they have to approve them.



Many people thought Sky Harbor was going to immediately sue Tempe once Wood made his speech but Phoenix went the ultra dick route lol.

Now I'm not sure how much the FAA was involved but Phoenix played ball with Tempe and waited until the FAA responded to them in January 2023.



Phoenix now has Tempe dead to rights. So now Tempe starts negotiations with Phoenix up until March, when the City Manager stops. Why? No idea as the IGA plainly says the FAA is the arbiter of the agreement, maybe Tempe was going to sue the FAA?

Either way it was very cold hearted for Phoenix.

There's a big omission here.

Sky Harbor's main complaint was the housing part and that it could not be built within the 65DNL

Except their own 1999 Part 150 Study included a schedule of what can and cannot be built within the various DNL zones.

https://www.skyharbor.com/media/fxgir3lj/1999_part150_v2_ch6_noisecompatibilityprogram.pdf

That schedule (6C) allowed for the types of housing units that were proposed in TED if and only if proper soundproofing mitigation was included.

There's a letter from the FAA that only stipulated that any developer wanted to build within those contour zones would not be able to apply for federal funding to deploy the mitigation. Meaning the developer had to pay for it themselves.

If this has been superseded by later filings I'll stand corrected but I haven't seen it.

 

[TheLegend]

Goalposts moving again.

No.... just correcting your narrative.

 

[PredsHead]

My personal (tin foil hat) theory is that it was due to Tempe knowing the Vote was going to fail. The amended IGA basically said Tempe could have TED but all other housing construction in the 65 DNL had to end.

Now if you think TED is going to be built that's a fair deal. If you think TED isn't going to be built AND you have to piss off all the other developers in the area, you absolutely walk away and fight it.

The letters came at the end of March and that was when the Coyotes kept saying they were going to do their campaigning for the Yes vote.

When that never materialized the City probably saw the writing on the wall and hedged their bets thinking if by some chance it does go through they'll just sign the amended IGA but if it doesn't then they still have a chance to fight it.

That is one of the ideas that I have kicked around too, and is probably something close to the truth. One thing that gives me pause on that theory is that Mayor Woods and some of the councilmembers almost seemed to double down on their support for the project after the letters were sent, one would think they would have at least been less visible in their support for a project they thought likely to be an embarrassment.

The other thing is that according to the DDA for TED, Meruelo would be responsible for any legal fees stemming from a legal fight with Sky Harbor over TED. I highly doubt the city sent those letters unless they had pretty serious consultation with Meruelo's people first.

 

[Shwan]

No.... just correcting your narrative.

I'm not the one that needs their narrative corrected.

CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

Any project on that site is going to require some public funds. What Tempe and the Coyotes tried to was cover those costs using a method that protected the current Tempe residents from. The land fill has to be cleaned up and the clock on it is ticking. The water table is slowly encroaching...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Shwan]

There's a big omission here.

Sky Harbor's main complaint was the housing part and that it could not be built within the 65DNL

Except their own 1999 Part 150 Study included a schedule of what can and cannot be built within the various DNL zones.

https://www.skyharbor.com/media/fxgir3lj/1999_part150_v2_ch6_noisecompatibilityprogram.pdf

That schedule (6C) allowed for the types of housing units that were proposed in TED if and only if proper soundproofing mitigation was included.

There's a letter from the FAA that only stipulated that any developer wanted to build within those contour zones would not be able to apply for federal funding to deploy the mitigation. Meaning the developer had to pay for it themselves.

If this has been superseded by later filings I'll stand corrected but I haven't seen it.

Doesn't need to be superceded by anything, the section 6C is under is the Land Use Planning element of the 150 which clearly states

LAND USE PLANNING ELEMENT

The recommended land use planning measures for the Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport vicinity are presented below. They are summarized in Table 6F at the end of this chapter.

That recommended change would have required an IGA amendment, which never happened.

 

[TheLegend]

I'm not the one that needs their narrative corrected.

CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

Any project on that site is going to require some public funds. What Tempe and the Coyotes tried to was cover those costs using a method that protected the current Tempe residents from. The land fill has to be cleaned up and the clock on it is ticking. The water table is slowly encroaching...

forums.hfboards.com

Go ahead and enlighten me on what’s wrong with it.

 

[TheLegend]

Doesn't need to be superceded by anything, the section 6C is under is the Land Use Planning element of the 150 which clearly states



That recommended change would have required an IGA amendment, which never happened.

So you are confirming that the housing argument made by Sky Harbor on building housing within the 65DNL was groundless?

That was the basis for their suit IIRC.

 

[Shwan]

So you are confirming that the housing argument made by Sky Harbor on building housing within the 65DNL was groundless?

That was the basis for their suit IIRC.

I'm confirming that trying to use a table that's labeled "Potential Land Use Compatibility Standards" in the "recommended land use planning measures" section of a 20 year old document is a really bad move when you're trying to argue something as it has no bearing on what's actually happening right now.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

Actually I’ve learned quite a lot from a few people here over the years.

Unfortunately they don’t post here anymore because “experts” such as yourself who pop in now and then with some sort of smarmy retort.

Right, I'm an interloper on the Coyotes-Saga. Along with everyone else who says let the desert dogs die.

 

[Shwan]

Go ahead and enlighten me on what’s wrong with it.

1.

But no matter... you still have that landfill there....... tick tock..... tick tock.....

vs.

It could be months or even decades from now. It won't matter.

or are you going to argue that "tick tock" isn't some remark that the landfill is a ticking time bomb, which it isn't?

2.

"Of course they can take proposals..... where are they?"

vs.

I'm also aware of the PHX Business Journal articles..... I, along with Llama posted links to those articles here and we both have referred to them several times.

So if you read the articles why are still pretending that Tempe site has just been sitting there unwanted when that article clearly states what the situation was?

3.

They have one investment company who took out an option to develop a small portion of the site that was not part of the landfill..... in 2013. Been sitting there since.

I've already corrected you on this. Remember your story about your family land and sisters?

CXLVI - Future of Coyotes up in air after Tempe rejects arena deal - will remain at Mullet Arena for 2023-24, looking at Fiesta Mall site in Mesa

The truth shall set you free….

forums.hfboards.com

 

[awfulwaffle]

Seems that the narrative that players don't want to go to AZ might be just a viewpoint from those that don't like the fact there is hockey in the valley.