CXLVII - Is this the 'Final Countdown' in Arizona?

[sawchuk1971]

Probably, there's not much public land the team can negotiate for, at least in the area they should be building the arena.

If they build on Indian Community land they wouldn't have to buy the land just get a 99 year lease.

thanks for the insight...

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I don't feel any sense of urgency from the Coyotes organization, which doesn't make sense since their future is in jeopardy.

Then either they're lying or their future, one way or the other, is no longer in jeopardy.

 

[TheLegend]

The Athletic articles documented a history of this behaviour preceding his purchase of the team.

Actually it did not.... not in the way you're attempting to frame it.

@Llama19 has brought in more things here than Katie Strang has even been able to dig up (something he does well and in spite our differences he brings more to the discussion than most).

And still that isn't saying much.

But you do you.

Yes, you're critical of them after they're gone, as I'm sure you will be of Meruelo when it's announced the team is relocating.

Well Meruelo is still here and I've been critical of him more than once already. Particularly with the tax issue...... and how they promoted TED.

Maybe if you had been reading all along instead of popping in now and then with your words of wisdom you wouldn't keep setting yourself up to be wrong....... again.

 

[aqib]

Well Meruelo is still here and I've been critical of him more than once already. Particularly with the tax issue...... and how they promoted TED.

Maybe if you had been reading all along instead of popping in now and then with your words of wisdom you wouldn't keep setting yourself up to be wrong....... again.

You have to admit his low profile doesn't help make the general public comfortable with supporting a deal. The Jags are one of those teams that always has rumors surrounding them and they are always having a back-and-forth with the city. Shad Kahn has maintained a high profile and before you say how Muerelo has other businesses. Kahn also has sprawling business interests. He is based in Illinois, his company has 69 plants in 8 countries, owns a soccer team in London, etc. He still manages to show up and be present.

 

[KevFu]

When NYCFC was founded Man City had just started its run (won their first Premier League title 2 years before) weren't the dominant force they are today. Plus there is the whole playing in Yankee Stadium thing. I had always seen it referred to as a joint venture between the Yankees and City. Either way your original comment that soccer fans don't associate NYCFC with Yankees isn't true unless you're talking about people who only follow soccer and don't know anything about baseball.

It's not really a "joint" venture. It's a City Football Group venture, with minority ownership by the Yankees to ensure that the team has a place to play, in order to appease MLS.

As for the last comment.... You mean, the people buying tickets to soccer games?

Your line of thinking is irrelevant. NYCFC aren't "the Yankees soccer team" and putting a stadium next to Citi Field doesn't make NYCFC "the Mets soccer team" either.

NYCFC fans aren't going to bat an eyelash at going to a soccer game in a soccer stadium based on baseball team fandom, it's just going to be geographical ease based on a fan-by-fan basis.

The Detroit Lions played 4 miles from the Pistons in Auburn Hills; and then they moved to a new Ford Field next to the Tigers' Comerica Park. The Lions weren't "the Pistons' NFL team" before and isn't "the Tigers' NFL team" after. They're Detroit's team.

Moving from the Bronx to Queens, they'll draw from the same fans as before: Soccer fans who like MLS and aren't New York/New Jersey Red Bulls fans already.

 

[KevFu]

I don't feel any sense of urgency from the Coyotes organization, which doesn't make sense since their future is in jeopardy.

What's smarter? Questioning the logic and intelligence of people IN the situation based on your own outside views, or maybe using the logic and intelligence of people in the situation to SHAPE your view from the outside?

The Coyotes situation is "dire" to people talking about the business of hockey on a message board because this board is obsessed with "failure" and relocations. You WANT the Coyotes situation to be dire.

The fact that they don't appear to you to have a sense of urgency probably means YOU'RE wrong, not THEY'RE wrong.

 

[awfulwaffle]

You have to admit his low profile doesn't help make the general public comfortable with supporting a deal. The Jags are one of those teams that always has rumors surrounding them and they are always having a back-and-forth with the city. Shad Kahn has maintained a high profile and before you say how Muerelo has other businesses. Kahn also has sprawling business interests. He is based in Illinois, his company has 69 plants in 8 countries, owns a soccer team in London, etc. He still manages to show up and be present.

Show up and present for what exactly? Games? Football is 1 game a week, on a Sunday. He can fly in and watch the game, then fly back all in one day. Muerelo showed up to all the meetings and votes. Xavier has been in the forefront CONSTANTLY. That's what good leaders do, hire people to help run the day to day of things, Muerelo is the money, and if needed, will come in when needed. That's what he's done.

 

[Slashers98]

What's smarter? Questioning the logic and intelligence of people IN the situation based on your own outside views, or maybe using the logic and intelligence of people in the situation to SHAPE your view from the outside?

The Coyotes situation is "dire" to people talking about the business of hockey on a message board because this board is obsessed with "failure" and relocations. You WANT the Coyotes situation to be dire.

The fact that they don't appear to you to have a sense of urgency probably means YOU'RE wrong, not THEY'RE wrong.

Your love for the Coyotes cannot be more obvious haha.

 

[aqib]

Show up and present for what exactly? Games? Football is 1 game a week, on a Sunday. He can fly in and watch the game, then fly back all in one day. Muerelo showed up to all the meetings and votes. Xavier has been in the forefront CONSTANTLY. That's what good leaders do, hire people to help run the day to day of things, Muerelo is the money, and if needed, will come in when needed. That's what he's done.

Since he bought the team he has had a media presence. When he first took over the team he was doing interviews everywhere. He was on 60 Minutes, when they had the game in London after Trump's "get that son of a bitch off the field right now" speech the media was already embedded with him, Peter King one did a profile of him and they were on his yacht on game week, etc.

He built a relationship with the fans (especially hard to do given the racism he experienced when he first bought the team) how many times have you seen Meurelo speak? Yes every owner has a team president or someone doing a lot of talking on their behalf but not 99.9% of it.

 

[aqib]

It's not really a "joint" venture. It's a City Football Group venture, with minority ownership by the Yankees to ensure that the team has a place to play, in order to appease MLS.

As for the last comment.... You mean, the people buying tickets to soccer games?

Your line of thinking is irrelevant. NYCFC aren't "the Yankees soccer team" and putting a stadium next to Citi Field doesn't make NYCFC "the Mets soccer team" either.

NYCFC fans aren't going to bat an eyelash at going to a soccer game in a soccer stadium based on baseball team fandom, it's just going to be geographical ease based on a fan-by-fan basis.

The Detroit Lions played 4 miles from the Pistons in Auburn Hills; and then they moved to a new Ford Field next to the Tigers' Comerica Park. The Lions weren't "the Pistons' NFL team" before and isn't "the Tigers' NFL team" after. They're Detroit's team.

Moving from the Bronx to Queens, they'll draw from the same fans as before: Soccer fans who like MLS and aren't New York/New Jersey Red Bulls fans already.

No I mean people who aren't in the US and have never heard of the Yankees. Sure they may not know the Yankees are involved outside of hosting the team. But when the team was formed it was presented as a Yankees-City venture. Like another poster said.

If you go back and look MLS was talking to a lot of European teams about the idea of forming a team in NYC. They talked to Barcelona first. So it could have easily been a Barcelona-Yankees venture. But the Yankees would have always been there.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Since he bought the team he has had a media presence. When he first took over the team he was doing interviews everywhere. He was on 60 Minutes, when they had the game in London after Trump's "get that son of a bitch off the field right now" speech the media was already embedded with him, Peter King one did a profile of him and they were on his yacht on game week, etc.

He built a relationship with the fans (especially hard to do given the racism he experienced when he first bought the team) how many times have you seen Meurelo speak? Yes every owner has a team president or someone doing a lot of talking on their behalf but not 99.9% of it.

That's exactly the kinds of things Gutierrez has been doing......

 

[TheLegend]

You have to admit his low profile doesn't help make the general public comfortable with supporting a deal. The Jags are one of those teams that always has rumors surrounding them and they are always having a back-and-forth with the city. Shad Kahn has maintained a high profile and before you say how Muerelo has other businesses. Kahn also has sprawling business interests. He is based in Illinois, his company has 69 plants in 8 countries, owns a soccer team in London, etc. He still manages to show up and be present.

Well if you call getting up in front of Tempe city council after a member of the public called him out not ten minutes earlier "keeping a low profile" I don't know what to tell you.

But he's also not the only sports team owner who sits backs and lets others run the show.

This is really a non issue.

 

[TheLegend]

Your love for the Coyotes cannot be more obvious haha.

And your comment more or less proved his point.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I don't feel any sense of urgency from the Coyotes organization, which doesn't make sense since their future is in jeopardy.

This all fits in with my "Lame duck behind the scenes" theory behind this year.

Although I am backing off that opinion a bit, as I really don't see a quality relocation destination out there.

SLC has some arena problems, Houston has one available owner, and he doesn't want to get into the hockey business at current franchise values and I get the feeling the NHL really doesn't want to go to Quebec City.

 

[Shwan]

You have to admit his low profile doesn't help make the general public comfortable with supporting a deal.

I wonder how many people in Tempe knew Meruelo won the man of the year award from the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce like a week before the deadline.

That probably would have gone over very well right before the ballot deadline.......if he had a higher profile and people who weren't Coyotes fans knew about it.

 

[Slashers98]

This all fits in with my "Lame duck behind the scenes" theory behind this year.

Although I am backing off that opinion a bit, as I really don't see a quality relocation destination out there.

SLC has some arena problems, Houston has one available owner, and he doesn't want to get into the hockey business at current franchise values and I get the feeling the NHL really doesn't want to go to Quebec City.

I totally agree with you that Quebec City is not where they want to go, so that's why they are delaying as long as they can in order to find another miracle solution!

 

[TheLegend]

This all fits in with my "Lame duck behind the scenes" theory behind this year.

Although I am backing off that opinion a bit, as I really don't see a quality relocation destination out there.

SLC has some arena problems, Houston has one available owner, and he doesn't want to get into the hockey business at current franchise values and I get the feeling the NHL really doesn't want to go to Quebec City.

Well.....

It would be prudent for the league to find "options" in case they need to find a new place for the Yotes. But you could also look at this as the league not being as much in a hurry as many people think either.

After some 14-15 years of this they're still not willing the vacate the Arizona market if there's any possible way they can stay there. And I firmly believe had Meruelo not come along they would have definitely left two years ago.

 

[aqib]

Well if you call getting up in front of Tempe city council after a member of the public called him out not ten minutes earlier "keeping a low profile" I don't know what to tell you.

But he's also not the only sports team owner who sits backs and lets others run the show.

This is really a non issue.

I mean the for the ballot issues he had Gutierrez and a Councilman do the talking for him. When they lost it was Gutierrez again. Sure there are other guys who keep lower profiles than others but when you're trying to build trust especially in light of the fact that you've got so many people saying you can't be trusted maybe being so behind the scenes isn't a winning strategy

That's exactly the kinds of things Gutierrez has been doing......

But he's not the owner.

 

[awfulwaffle]

I mean the for the ballot issues he had Gutierrez and a Councilman do the talking for him. When they lost it was Gutierrez again. Sure there are other guys who keep lower profiles than others but when you're trying to build trust especially in light of the fact that you've got so many people saying you can't be trusted maybe being so behind the scenes isn't a winning strategy


But he's not the owner.

Think you are making too much of an issue over nothing. There has been a spokesperson out in front of the public constantly. And he is the owners right hand man.

 

[TheLegend]

I mean the for the ballot issues he had Gutierrez and a Councilman do the talking for him. When they lost it was Gutierrez again. Sure there are other guys who keep lower profiles than others but when you're trying to build trust especially in light of the fact that you've got so many people saying you can't be trusted maybe being so behind the scenes isn't a winning strategy

AFAIK, he was at all the city council meetings and actually went up to the podium and spoke at the last one before they voted because a speaker before said the same "where is he??".

And he was straight up abut it. He told the audience this was a project he'd dreamed for a long time of completing and wanted to do right by the city. But he was not going to be able to solve everyone's problems. That was in reference to people who believed the site could be used for 'low-cost housing" and that it was fiscally impossible.

That is unless the taxpayers of Tempe wanted to subsidize it.

 

[oknazevad]

Quit hijacking this thread please.
New York’s soccer team is not relevant here.
There is a sub forum for soccer on these boards.
Go use that.
Thanks

I made my post to put an end to the whole soccer talk, tyvm.

 

[Shwan]

I mean the for the ballot issues he had Gutierrez and a Councilman do the talking for him. When they lost it was Gutierrez again. Sure there are other guys who keep lower profiles than others but when you're trying to build trust especially in light of the fact that you've got so many people saying you can't be trusted maybe being so behind the scenes isn't a winning strategy

Politics 101 really, when a vote starts being about a person, you really need to get that person front and center to dispell any mischaracterization.

Those "Billionaire rapes city" posters, while small, did demonstrate that there was at least a portion of the city that made this election about Meruelo.

 

[aqib]

AFAIK, he was at all the city council meetings and actually went up to the podium and spoke at the last one before they voted because a speaker before said the same "where is he??".

And he was straight up abut it. He told the audience this was a project he'd dreamed for a long time of completing and wanted to do right by the city. But he was not going to be able to solve everyone's problems. That was in reference to people who believed the site could be used for 'low-cost housing" and that it was fiscally impossible.

That is unless the taxpayers of Tempe wanted to subsidize it.

Think you are making too much of an issue over nothing. There has been a spokesperson out in front of the public constantly. And he is the owners right hand man.

So he spoke once at one meeting. That's a far cry from what he should be doing. The fact that he can be in a room and people still ask where he is, shows he has a pr problem. People don't even recognize him.

When there is a perception right or wrong that you're a shady dude who can't be trusted, you have to be out there yourself and can't have other people doing your talking for you. You have to make people like you. People in Tempe voted to have a landfill instead of doing business with him and you know part of that is the perception of him as being untrustworthy. Now you can say all you want that The Athletic article was a hit piece and the not paying taxes in Glendale was an oversight etc. but him not being visible himself creates more problems. Its the epitome of an unforced error

 

[awfulwaffle]

So he spoke once at one meeting. That's a far cry from what he should be doing. The fact that he can be in a room and people still ask where he is, shows he has a pr problem. People don't even recognize him.

When there is a perception right or wrong that you're a shady dude who can't be trusted, you have to be out there yourself and can't have other people doing your talking for you. You have to make people like you. People in Tempe voted to have a landfill instead of doing business with him and you know part of that is the perception of him as being untrustworthy. Now you can say all you want that The Athletic article was a hit piece and the not paying taxes in Glendale was an oversight etc. but him not being visible himself creates more problems. Its the epitome of an unforced error

He addressed the issues when they came up, and quickly paid outstanding items. He paid ASU UP FRONT for the annex. Again, you are making too much of nothing.

I'm willing to bet it was because people heard "taxes", and not because of the kind of person AM is as to why people voted no......

 

[Llama19]

Arizona Coyotes have homed in on 6 Phoenix-area locations. Here are the most and least likely

Locations:

- Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community
- Mesa (2, northern and southern sides)
- Chandler
- The least likely options: Scottsdale and Gilbert

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/mesa/2023/06/30/where-might-the-coyotes-move-in-the-phoenix-area/70370978007/