CXLV - Tempe Entertainment District citizen referendum vote upcoming May 16th

[No Fun Shogun]

Man... that would be a kick in the teeth to lose the team and not even have a chance to say goodbye like the Thrashers.

 

[Shwan]

Yeah, seriously. Was that laziness or hubris?

The whole thing is bizarre.

I feel like either this is some massive conspiracy from the top down, bottom up (involving the NHL, the various cities, various ownerships, shady outside unions, etc.) or it's just not a great hockey market.

I'm really sorry to say, but as someone who is not a massive conspiracy theorist, my bet is on one of the two things above and I imagine it can be figured out fairly easily.

Doesn't have to be a massive conspiracy theory that the owner bought the team to land this Tempe deal and he doesn't want to go though with it anymore given we're on the cusp of a global recession that looks to be getting more nasty by each month.

This is after the same guy spent just shy of $1B on back-to-back casino and hockey team purchases right before a global pandemic shut down society for 2 years.

It's just business probably, know when to hold and when to fold.

 

[Tawnos]

Arizona has changed a lot recently, but at it's core it basically is one of the birthplaces of the modern anti-tax moment. Any kind of public funding deal for a sports team, especially one that doesn't have as broad of an appeal of the other three of the big four, had to have been an inherent longshot, right?

And I recognize that there was an apparent misinformation campaign, but that's a given for basically any election going forward. Ownership can't push this deal, barely spend money campaigning for it (unless I'm mistaken), and be surprised at striking out.

I feel bad for Yotes fans. They are solid and have had to put up with a lot. But the lesson is that there just aren't enough of them to expect a team-friendly set of referenda to pass in a public vote.

It isn't clear that the "barely spent money campaigning" thing is actually true. Conflicting reports out there.

That being said, I am wondering this morning if the complexity of the proposal is what ended up giving the oppose side the opening they needed to get this killed. There was barely any public money in this, but on the surface it sure seemed like there was a lot simply from the fact that this was a partnership between the city and a billionaire. It's the easy assumption and, frankly, usually it's the right one. It had to be explained over and over again around here that this proposal was different from the usual ones. That explanation was complex and it was an uphill battle on optics to begin with.

 

[Scouter]

It's not going to be Kansas City, unless very recently a group expressed interest in moving a team there. If it's not Texas, Quebec can put in an offer. There is no way they keep the team in a 4,600 seat arena long term.

Meruelo might be ok with moving the team there and not selling, the NHL may have already had meetings with KC and Salt Lake City, they have all their bases covered in the event something like this happened, the NHL is not unprepared for these situations as they might seem to people, just like they already had Winnipeg in their back pocket in case Atlanta did not work either.

 

[tucker3434]

Hate it for the yotes fans. The ones that have toughed it out deserve better.

 

[cbcwpg]

Meruelo might be ok with moving the team there and not selling, the NHL may have already had meetings with KC and Salt Lake City, they have all their bases covered in the event something like this happened, the NHL is not unprepared for these situations as they might seem to people, just like they already had Winnipeg in their back pocket in case Atlanta did not work either.

The Coyotes ownership may not have a Plan "B", but Bettman always has a Plan "B"... you just don't find out what it is until it happens.

 

[Nordskull]

League of clowns.

 

[Scouter]

The Coyotes ownership may not have a Plan "B", but Bettman always has a Plan "B"... you just don't find out what it is until it happens.

I just said the NHL has a backup plan for moving the team if needed.

 

[ponder719]

I hope that there's a resolution in Arizona, the fans there deserve it after all they've been put through, but if not, the league should take lessons from this situation, and begin laying groundwork for a future return to the area when and only when they actually have their ducks in a row on the ownership, location, and arena. It may take significant time for the air to clear, and to find the right team to make it happen successfully, but Phoenix can succeed, if that success isn't entirely at the mercy of snake oil salesmen.

 

[Scouter]

The other option of course is the team folds if they can't be moved, which is maybe starting to look like a possibility.

 

[wpgallday1960]

Sad development for Coyote fans. Mucho respect for putting up with all the relocation talk for almost 15 years. Based on Muerello and NHL statements I don’t see the Yotes sticking around. Houston is my bet.

im almost nostalgic for the Glendale era: $50M from the council to the team, $15M arena management fees, parking garages being bought back by the city. A lot of entertaining history to be sure.

 

[GKJ]

Yeah, seriously. Was that laziness or hubris?

The whole thing is bizarre.

I feel like either this is some massive conspiracy from the top down, bottom up (involving the NHL, the various cities, various ownerships, shady outside unions, etc.) or it's just not a great hockey market.

I'm really sorry to say, but as someone who is not a massive conspiracy theorist, my bet is on one of the two things above and I imagine it can be figured out fairly easily.

I’m wondering if maybe the league just told Bettman that he’s on his own here and if it’s an indication how much support he had, which would be very atypical that not be showing a strong front. Seravalli was also the one saying that the Coyotes were not presenting as a core element of this. It was like, all the stuff in this and oh yeah, the Coyotes are in here too, which makes sense as a strategy if the team and specifically the owner were that unpopular.

 

[GKJ]

The other option of course is the team folds if they can't be moved, which is maybe starting to look like a possibility.

It’ll be a cold day in hell when that happens.

 

[wpgallday1960]

I’m wondering if maybe the league just told Bettman that he’s on his own here and if it’s an indication how much support he had, which would be very atypical that not be showing a strong front. Seravalli was also the one saying that the Coyotes were not presenting as a core element of this. It was like, all the stuff in this and oh yeah, the Coyotes are in here too, which makes sense as a strategy if the team and specifically the owner were that unpopular.

I’d imagine having a prominent role for the Coyotes and their owner in the bid would play right into the “no subsidy for billionaires” crowd.

 

[madhi19]

Sad development for Coyote fans. Mucho respect for putting up with all the relocation talk for almost 15 years. Based on Muerello and NHL statements I don’t see the Yotes sticking around. Houston is my bet.

im almost nostalgic for the Glendale era: $50M from the council to the team, $15M arena management fees, parking garages being bought back by the city. A lot of entertaining history to be sure.

It's not without irony that the least gimmicky plan in a long list of batcrap insanity is going to be the one straw that break the camel back.

 

[OG6ix]

It’ll be a cold day in hell when that happens.

Agreed... they will prop it up with losses before folding. That would hurt franchise values in a major way.

 

[jamiebez]

Haven't waded through the entire thread, but I'm thinking it's not a co-incidence that the bids for the Senators were due on Monday, and this vote was on a Tuesday.

There are going to be (at least) 3 very wealthy "bridesmaids" left without a team after the Sens sale. I wonder how quickly they could pivot to a Coyotes purchase?


I know this sounds silly considering all the twists and turns in the last 15 years of so, but this feels like it's about to unfold really fast. Definitely sucks for Coyotes fans that they won't even have the opportunity for a farewell.

 

[Melrose Munch]

So sure you are sport…whatever

It's just reality. Pittsburgh got bailed out multiple times.

 

[ponder719]

The closest to "folding" they'll come is if there is a legal benefit to technically issuing an expansion franchise and transferring the team's assets to that new shell. There will almost certainly not be any form of dispersal draft unless literally nowhere on earth will take the team, which I cannot fathom. They'd set the franchise up as a second team in Philadelphia or Chicago for a couple years before permitting that.

 

[oldunclehue]

Sad day for Coyotes fans and the team. But if they weren't willing to spend much on a campaign to keep them there based around this vote, really what was their plan?

Hoping a Plan B in the area is real, if not.....get the issue sorted quickly and move.

No wonder Bettman was meeting with potential owners around the states recently.

 

[cbcwpg]

Not sure of all the details of this deal that was voted down last night, but I think regardless of what was technically in the deal, and how good it might have been and worked out for the Coyotes...

There was probably just too much historical baggage that came with the team for people to not think what has happened in the past may happen again in the future. IE: Somehow the taxpayers will be left paying for everything. And the team just couldn't overcome it's past.

 

[nickp91]

I bet Houston I’m on board if they bring back the WHA Aeros look

 

[JimAnchower]

We'll find out what plan b everyone has. If the Coyotes have a good one, they'll get time to explore that. If not, we'll find out if the league has a plan b it can execute right now. If they need a year to figure that out, the Coyotes will stay for another year.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Doesn't have to be a massive conspiracy theory that the owner bought the team to land this Tempe deal and he doesn't want to go though with it anymore given we're on the cusp of a global recession that looks to be getting more nasty by each month.

This is after the same guy spent just shy of $1B on back-to-back casino and hockey team purchases right before a global pandemic shut down society for 2 years.

It's just business probably, know when to hold and when to fold.

We've had political and economic instability for a number of years, now. Yet other cities aren't having problems with massive infrastructure spending and stadiums, etc.

Look, I think the only real explanation is that Arizona is just not a hockey market. I'm just not willing to keep blaming everything else other than the state/cit(ies)/other elements at this point.

Hopefully there is an orderly transition, here, but with the NHL I doubt it.

We'll find out what plan b everyone has. If the Coyotes have a good one, they'll get time to explore that. If not, we'll find out if the league has a plan b it can execute right now. If they need a year to figure that out, the Coyotes will stay for another year.

How much more time do they need? This has been going on for years.

 

[JimAnchower]

If they drop 100 million on rehabing the site out of their own reserves to rehabilitate the site, or if they approve a similar project a few years from now, as I've seen a bunch of times with referendums like this.

Eventually, the voters are going to ask why such potentially prime real estate is sitting vacant.