CXLIV - The Tempe era set to begin as ASU opens Mullett Arena

[TheLegend]

I guess it was not very smart to build an airport so close to another city without trying to merge Phoenix and Tempe beforehand.

To be fair.... Phoenix Metro was relatively small at one time. There was plenty space in between them. What's happening now is the combination of explosive growth and lack of foresight.

 

[TheLegend]

"Indeed, what chicanery! What skullduggery! I mean to put an end to it this very night!"

Sherlock Holmes in Washington, Universal Pictures, 1943.

Heh.... if were that easy.

 

[Stumbledore]

Heh.... if were that easy.

In the old black and white movies, it was always that easy.

Yeah, I'm too old.

 

[TheLegend]

Coyotes president and CEO Xavier Gutierrez on local radio this morning to talk about the lawsuit. (hint: Coyotes are pushing forward since they are not officially part of the suit.)

Xavier Gutierrez, Arizona Coyotes president and CEO - Burns & Gambo

Xavier Gutierrez talks about the recent lawsuit submitted by the city of Phoenix that could potentially impact the plans to build the Coyotes new arena.

omny.fm

 

[Llama19]

New entertainment district in the works in Tempe

Source (Video): azpbs.org/horizon/2023/03/new-entertainment-district-in-the-works-in-tempe/

 

[TheLegend]

New entertainment district in the works in Tempe

Source (Video): azpbs.org/horizon/2023/03/new-entertainment-district-in-the-works-in-tempe/

Penich-Thacker runs the Tempe1st Twitter account from what I’ve been seeing.

She’s running the same talking points that that have been disproven over and over again. Refuses to back up anything when challenged.

She’s more or less a talking head. Her personal Twitter account is @DoctorRhetorica which is aptly named.

 

[Llama19]

PACs for the Tempe-Coyotes election react to Phoenix lawsuit

To quote:

"Groups supporting and opposing Tempe's $2.1 billion deal with the Arizona Coyotes were both caught off guard on Tuesday when Phoenix announced that it filed a lawsuit against Tempe that could kill the massive project that's been years in the making.

Pro-Coyotes PAC Tempe argues that Phoenix's lawsuit is meritless and called it a "bullying" tactic. They held a press conference Thursday, featuring four former Tempe mayors and the top brass of the hockey franchise. They accused Phoenix of playing politics in an attempt to force Tempe to support future airport projects that weren't related to the Coyotes project.

It's a boon to opponents of the deal, such as the anti-project political action committee Tempe 1st. Their objections to the deal range from the $500 million in tax breaks for the team to strong doubts about the project's promised benefits.

"This out-of-town developer is poking a stick into a hornet's nest. It's clear they care little for our community and are already creating division and chaos," said former Tempe City Councilmember Lauren Kuby, who volunteers with Tempe 1st. "Why would Tempe want to vote for a plan that ensures decades of litigation and controversy?""

Source (Paywall): www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/03/30/pacs-in-the-tempe-coyotes-election-react-to-phoenix-lawsuit/70065755007/

 

[Llama19]

 

[TheLegend]

PACs for the Tempe-Coyotes election react to Phoenix lawsuit

To quote:

"Groups supporting and opposing Tempe's $2.1 billion deal with the Arizona Coyotes were both caught off guard on Tuesday when Phoenix announced that it filed a lawsuit against Tempe that could kill the massive project that's been years in the making.

Pro-Coyotes PAC Tempe argues that Phoenix's lawsuit is meritless and called it a "bullying" tactic. They held a press conference Thursday, featuring four former Tempe mayors and the top brass of the hockey franchise. They accused Phoenix of playing politics in an attempt to force Tempe to support future airport projects that weren't related to the Coyotes project.

It's a boon to opponents of the deal, such as the anti-project political action committee Tempe 1st. Their objections to the deal range from the $500 million in tax breaks for the team to strong doubts about the project's promised benefits.

"This out-of-town developer is poking a stick into a hornet's nest. It's clear they care little for our community and are already creating division and chaos," said former Tempe City Councilmember Lauren Kuby, who volunteers with Tempe 1st. "Why would Tempe want to vote for a plan that ensures decades of litigation and controversy?""

Source (Paywall): www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2023/03/30/pacs-in-the-tempe-coyotes-election-react-to-phoenix-lawsuit/70065755007/

Oh once again you’re leaving some of the juicy parts out…. so let me continue…

But the lawsuit is aimed at Tempe, not the Coyotes. The team's project is just caught in the middle of a fight between the two cities that have disparate interpretations of local development rules and competing interests that weren't reconciled during their own set of negotiations.

During those talks, Phoenix sought separate protections from Tempe that weren't provided. The terms were that Phoenix would give the Coyotes a pass ― even though it believes the project violates the rules ― as long as Tempe didn't build any more apartments in the area and supported upcoming airport projects, such as an extension of the western runway.

The disconnect is that Tempe never believed that the project violated the rules to begin with, so it wouldn't make those concessions to fix a problem that Tempe officials felt was made up.

(side note to others…. the reporter covers Tempe for the AZ Republic and has done a good job of covering this)

 

[PredsHead]

So if this really is just a negotiation gone sour between Tempe wanting TED and Sky Harbor wanting to extend or build a new runway, why does Tempe let this get out this close to the election? Sky Harbor has at least enough leverage to if not completely keep TED from being built at least making it much more costly and painful for everyone, so if you're Tempe why not just try to cut the best deal and be done? It sounds like they had enough of a deal back in November for Sky Harbor to at least pause its attempts to cancel this, why would Tempe change course now?

Also where is Alex Meruelo, shouldn't we be hearing from him on this? I think he came to one of the council meetings but other than that has he said anything publicly about any of this? You would think he'd at least be trying to get his face in the community since he's become a focal point of this campaign.

 

[TheLegend]

So if this really is just a negotiation gone sour between Tempe wanting TED and Sky Harbor wanting to extend or build a new runway, why does Tempe let this get out this close to the election? Sky Harbor has at least enough leverage to if not completely keep TED from being built at least making it much more costly and painful for everyone, so if you're Tempe why not just try to cut the best deal and be done? It sounds like they had enough of a deal back in November for Sky Harbor to at least pause its attempts to cancel this, why would Tempe change course now?

Also where is Alex Meruelo, shouldn't we be hearing from him on this? I think he came to one of the council meetings but other than that has he said anything publicly about any of this? You would think he'd at least be trying to get his face in the community since he's become a focal point of this campaign.

Tempe and Phoenix were still negotiating right up until the point Phoenix dropped the suit. Which is why you're seeing the hostile reaction out of current and former Tempe officials. Phoenix did this to them at least once before.

As for Meruelo.... he's not a party to the suit so he can't get involved (otherwise Nick Wood could possibly tear them apart.). He's also not a real public individual, that's Xavier Gutierrez' job.

At the end of the article Llama linked above Gutierrez mentions Meruelo will look at whatever legal options there are but won't comment for now. They're still remaining focused on the May 16th election.

 

[PredsHead]

Tempe and Phoenix were still negotiating right up until the point Phoenix dropped the suit. Which is why you're seeing the hostile reaction out of current and former Tempe officials. Phoenix did this to them at least once before.

As for Meruelo.... he's not a party to the suit so he can't get involved (otherwise Nick Wood could possibly tear them apart.). He's also not a real public individual, that's Xavier Gutierrez' job.

At the end of the article Llama linked above Gutierrez mentions Meruelo will look at whatever legal options there are but won't comment for now. They're still remaining focused on the May 16th election.

It was Tempe that sent the two letters on the 17th...
https://www.skyharbor.com/media/2um...arton-re-phoenix-sky-harbor-camp-projects.pdf

https://www.skyharbor.com/media/ccq...ulti-family-development-within-the-65-dnl.pdf

I get Meruelo may not be able to speak on the Sky Harbor suit specifically but he can at least get out and do the minimum amount of publicity and community engagement. He's asking Tempe voters to believe in him the least he can do is actually show up. He certainly got his lawyers involved when he thought someone said mean words about him, he could at least go do a few puff pieces with Craig Morgan or shake a few hands at a meet and greet,

 

[TheLegend]

It was Tempe that sent the two letters on the 17th...
https://www.skyharbor.com/media/2um...arton-re-phoenix-sky-harbor-camp-projects.pdf

https://www.skyharbor.com/media/ccq...ulti-family-development-within-the-65-dnl.pdf

I get Meruelo may not be able to speak on the Sky Harbor suit specifically but he can at least get out and do the minimum amount of publicity and community engagement. He's asking Tempe voters to believe in him the least he can do is actually show up. He certainly got his lawyers involved when he thought someone said mean words about him, he could at least go do a few puff pieces with Craig Morgan or shake a few hands at a meet and greet,

I know about the letters…. they’re on Tempe’s site as well and I posted the links to both up thread.
Both letters are specific. Sky Harbor wants Tempe to openly agree to something that they have yet to define and Tempe isn’t going to agree to anything that leaves things open to interpretation.

Much in like the IGA itself is open to interpretation itself.

Phoenix has done this to Tempe before which led to the IGA to begin with.

Phoenix would really like the IGA to go away altogether so they can flex Sky Harbor’s footprint as they see fit. With the added advantage of stopping a potential competitor to their own downtown arena district at the same time.

 

[PredsHead]

I know about the letters…. they’re on Tempe’s site as well and I posted the links to both up thread.
Both letters are specific. Sky Harbor wants Tempe to openly agree to something that they have yet to define and Tempe isn’t going to agree to anything that leaves things open to interpretation.

Much in like the IGA itself is open to interpretation itself.

Phoenix has done this to Tempe before which led to the IGA to begin with.

Phoenix would really like the IGA to go away altogether so they can flex Sky Harbor’s footprint as they see fit. With the added advantage of stopping a potential competitor to their own downtown arena district at the same time.

Then why did you say they were negotiating right up until Sky Harbor filed suit? Also why would Tempe pretend not to know why the suit was filed when they know good and well it was because the letters they sent? Why send the letters that you know were going to bring this suit?

 

[Stumbledore]

"Here's a blank piece of paper with the word 'Agreement' printed on the top."

"We'd like you to sign at the bottom and then we'll fill in the details later."

Yep, always worked in my legal career.

 

[TheLegend]

Then why did you say they were negotiating right up until Sky Harbor filed suit? Also why would Tempe pretend not to know why the suit was filed when they know good and well it was because the letters they sent? Why send the letters that you know were going to bring this suit?

The letters were part of the negotiation process.

They're dated March 17th which is less than two weeks from when Phoenix filed the complaint.

From my interpretation... Tempe wants one thing.... they want Phoenix to set an absolute maximum point they will expand Sky Harbor before Tempe will consider signing off on it. Because they don't want this happening to them again some 10-15 years down the road.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

The letters were part of the negotiation process.

They're dated March 17th which is less than two weeks from when Phoenix filed the complaint.

From my interpretation... Tempe wants one thing.... they want Phoenix to set an absolute maximum point they will expand Sky Harbor before Tempe will consider signing off on it. Because they don't want this happening to them again some 10-15 years down the road.

@legand.
Nope. As a back-pedal.. Not a full reverse. There is definitely warmer smoke before little fire here.
Something is going on.
I don't gamble, but I know how cards work.
Sniff test is iffy.

 

[TheLegend]

@legand.
Nope. As a back-pedal.. Not a full reverse. There is definitely warmer smoke before little fire here.
Something is going on.
I don't gamble, but I know how cards work.
Sniff test is iffy.

Must be the Tempe landfill caught on fire again.....

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Must be the Tempe landfill caught on fire again.....

Well I hope if that is the case, there are aren't many more hot spots.

 

[PredsHead]

The letters were part of the negotiation process.

They're dated March 17th which is less than two weeks from when Phoenix filed the complaint.

From my interpretation... Tempe wants one thing.... they want Phoenix to set an absolute maximum point they will expand Sky Harbor before Tempe will consider signing off on it. Because they don't want this happening to them again some 10-15 years down the road.

Sky Harbor pulled their objection over a tentative agreement with Tempe back in November which effectively allowed the council to pass the resolutions without much issue. Those letters broke that tentative agreement leaving Sky Harbor no choice but to sue to stop the project. How else did anyone at Tempe think those letters would be received?

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Sky Harbor pulled their objection over a tentative agreement with Tempe back in November which effectively allowed the council to pass the resolutions without much issue. Those letters broke that tentative agreement leaving Sky Harbor no choice but to sue to stop the project. How else did anyone at Tempe think those letters would be received?

The legal issue is for lawyers. The spin is for .. .just wait for it.....

 

[TheLegend]

Sky Harbor pulled their objection over a tentative agreement with Tempe back in November which effectively allowed the council to pass the resolutions without much issue. Those letters broke that tentative agreement leaving Sky Harbor no choice but to sue to stop the project. How else did anyone at Tempe think those letters would be received?

How did they (Tempe) exactly break the agreement?

As far as Tempe was concerned they were still negotiating. The former mayor who was at the center of negotiating for Tempe said Phoenix’s action blindsided them.

This was a political move on Phoenix’s part to put pressure on Tempe to give them an open-ended condition for expanding Sky Harbor using TED as a hostage.

All Tempe wants to know is where does it end?

 

[PredsHead]

How did they (Tempe) exactly break the agreement?

As far as Tempe was concerned they were still negotiating. The former mayor who was at the center of negotiating for Tempe said Phoenix’s action blindsided them.

This was a political move on Phoenix’s part to put pressure on Tempe to give them an open-ended condition for expanding Sky Harbor using TED as a hostage.

All Tempe wants to know is where does it end?

DId you actually read the letters? They basically start the whole process back at square one. If the former mayor was blindsided by this he shouldn't be in politics. How did they get all the former mayors together that quickly for a press conference if everyone was so caught off guard?

 

[TheLegend]

DId you actually read the letters? They basically start the whole process back at square one. If the former mayor was blindsided by this he shouldn't be in politics. How did they get all the former mayors together that quickly for a press conference if everyone was so caught off guard?

The four mayors have endorsed the project. They were all responsible for the creation and development of the Tempe Town Lake area. Each and everyone of them have had to deal with Phoenix (and the airport) over the years so they are quite experienced in how this is going down.

For them it’s not about TED as it is getting sick and tired of Phoenix flexing itself at their expense.

This is an economic turf war going on right now. The Coyotes moving out to Glendale was just another example of one that took place nearly 25 years ago between Glendale and Scottsdale. Only that one was more of an ego trip between the city’s mayors at the time.

 

[Fairview]

I doubt that these mayors are in here for the good of their hearts. They are obviously on the payroll.So the last thing anyone can do is trust anything that they say. Once a politician always a politician They have an axe to grind just like everyone else in this situation. A savvy move by Mereulo.