CXLIV - The Tempe era set to begin as ASU opens Mullett Arena

[Legion34]

Soooooo when is this meeting?

 

[TheLegend]

Soooooo when is this meeting?

No meeting… it’s a public vote by mail by May 16th.

 

[Stumbledore]

Agreeing that it was a big foul up is whataboutism?

You seem to think that mistakes can’t be made.

The question at this point really is does/will he make the same mistake like that again?

No, whataboutism is not about agreeing it was a big foul up. Responding to a question about a businessman's financial ethics by saying wow, look at how bad our state government is and look at how bad our federal government is qualifies as whataboutism.

"You seem to think that mistakes can't be made." No, I don't think that. I never said that so I think you're projecting. Again.

I've made lots of mistakes, but I never made the mistake of failing to remit regular taxes. month after month after month, on the flimsy excuse that the government sent notices to the wrong address. If the worst postal service in the world (Canada Post) can forward mail for up to a year, surely your postal system can manage the same

 

[TheLegend]

No, whataboutism is not about agreeing it was a big foul up. Responding to a question about a businessman's financial ethics by saying wow, look at how bad our state government is and look at how bad our federal government is qualifies as whataboutism.

"You seem to think that mistakes can't be made." No, I don't think that. I never said that so I think you're projecting. Again.

I've made lots of mistakes, but I never made the mistake of failing to remit regular taxes. month after month after month, on the flimsy excuse that the government sent notices to the wrong address. If the worst postal service in the world (Canada Post) can forward mail for up to a year, surely your postal system can manage the same

So just because you haven't experienced something it means it can't happen?

BTW..... I'm not projecting.... I'm speculating on what could have gone wrong. When Meruelo took over the franchise it's quite apparent he used different offices than what IceArizona used. And according to what Gutierrez claims the address the state had on their file was a downtown Phoenix address going back from when the NHL actually owned the franchise.

Of course we don't know for sure what exactly happened. Like how IceArizona dealt with it during their ownership. But also taking in the fact there was a huge turnover of front office personnel when Meruelo took charge.

My wife just finished up 18 years doing payroll and accounts payable for a mortgage broker (they ceased operations on 12/31/22) and I've had her tell me tons of stories about logistic mix-ups with vendors, service bureaus and even the state. Just the other day she got a call from a vendor still looking for their equipment and outstanding balance and she's been out of the office since the middle of January.

In a nutshell.... things happen. Sometimes it's intentional, and sometimes it's not. In this case we don't know other than the fact this went on for almost a year and one would think (at least I do) whomever Meruelo had in charge of the team's accounting department should have began wondering why they hadn't received any statements.

But the fact remains.... the people who would know only say they made a mistake and immediately corrected it.

And anyone on the outside who wants to declare this isn't anything but corrupt behavior is the one doing the projecting.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I didn't say inaccurate but pointing out that he is a "prominent Hispanic business leader" makes it out as if the opposition to the arena is based in his race. Now I am sure there are racists in Arizona just like any place but I sincerely doubt that a significant portion of the opposition to the deal is because of AM's race. There are plenty of reasons to oppose the arena including simply just not wanting a 16K seat arena in their city.

Yea probably. But considering other side isn’t sticking to the issue I’d say it’s fair game. But that’s me.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

No, whataboutism is not about agreeing it was a big foul up. Responding to a question about a businessman's financial ethics by saying wow, look at how bad our state government is and look at how bad our federal government is qualifies as whataboutism.

"You seem to think that mistakes can't be made." No, I don't think that. I never said that so I think you're projecting. Again.

I've made lots of mistakes, but I never made the mistake of failing to remit regular taxes. month after month after month, on the flimsy excuse that the government sent notices to the wrong address. If the worst postal service in the world (Canada Post) can forward mail for up to a year, surely your postal system can manage the same

Billionaires try dodging taxes all the time. Not justifying it because I don’t like billionaires but it is what it is.

 

[Tawnos]

I doubt the situation that happened with the taxes is really all that uncommon after ownership changes (across all businesses, not just the NHL or sports teams). Not saying it's common either, but rather just the kind of thing that happens. The only reason it was publicized is because people have an interest in painting anything with the Coyotes business practices as negative.

 

[Rob]

No meeting… it’s a public vote by mail by May 16th.

Oh, I didn't realize it was mail only. When do the ballots get sent out?

 

[Llama19]

Oh, I didn't realize it was mail only. When do the ballots get sent out?

April 19...

 

[Final Baton]

Small presser from Tempe1st group and residents :

 

[Yukon Joe]

Small presser from Tempe1st group and residents :

So definitely not backing down after the demand letter...

 

[TheLegend]

So definitely not backing down after the demand letter...

Never expected them to.

Next they’ll try painting Meruelo as anti-diversity because of a campaign donation he made to the campaign of an AZ legislator who is part of the MAGA movement.

I did a small amount of digging and on the surface Meruelo doesn’t favor any political party in particular. Most seem to be business based which you would expect if you needed a piece of legislation passed.

But I would have to do more digging.

 

[Llama19]

David and Goliath: PACs go head-to-head before Tempe special election for Coyotes arena

Source: cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2023/03/20/tempe-group-opposition-coyotoes-arena-development/

 

[jonathan613]

Looking at this from afar (New York City) , I do have a question and that is whether ASU has stated a position in this issue. I can't find anything that shows their position one way or the other. I would imagine that ASU is a big employer in Tempe and its opinion could sway some voters. If they are by law not allowed to officially express a view, then maybe boosters associated with ASU have? I would think that and am surprised that it has not happened that meruelo would pledge that ASU could be involved in the arena design process and it could be used then obviously for ASU men's basketball. ASU may have plans to upgrade their own arena, but i would think a brand new building would still be a lot more appealing-especially if they are not assuming the main financial responsibility for the building. I do hope the 3 propositions pass, but wonder whether voters may view silence from ASU negatively.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Looking at this from afar (New York City) , I do have a question and that is whether ASU has stated a position in this issue. I can't find anything that shows their position one way or the other. I would imagine that ASU is a big employer in Tempe and its opinion could sway some voters. If they are by law not allowed to officially express a view, then maybe boosters associated with ASU have? I would think that and am surprised that it has not happened that meruelo would pledge that ASU could be involved in the arena design process and it could be used then obviously for ASU men's basketball. ASU may have plans to upgrade their own arena, but i would think a brand new building would still be a lot more appealing-especially if they are not assuming the main financial responsibility for the building. I do hope the 3 propositions pass, but wonder whether voters may view silence from ASU negatively.

ASU has specifically partnered with the Coyotes to host the team until the new arena is built.

I suspect a large public university like ASU can't express an opinion, but actions here speak louder than words.

 

[TheLegend]

Looking at this from afar (New York City) , I do have a question and that is whether ASU has stated a position in this issue. I can't find anything that shows their position one way or the other. I would imagine that ASU is a big employer in Tempe and its opinion could sway some voters. If they are by law not allowed to officially express a view, then maybe boosters associated with ASU have? I would think that and am surprised that it has not happened that meruelo would pledge that ASU could be involved in the arena design process and it could be used then obviously for ASU men's basketball. ASU may have plans to upgrade their own arena, but i would think a brand new building would still be a lot more appealing-especially if they are not assuming the main financial responsibility for the building. I do hope the 3 propositions pass, but wonder whether voters may view silence from ASU negatively.

ASU has specifically partnered with the Coyotes to host the team until the new arena is built.

I suspect a large public university like ASU can't express an opinion, but actions here speak louder than words.

ASU's President says in the article Llama posted that the university stays neutral when it comes to local referendums.

If someone were to ask them how well the Coyotes are behaving in reference to their use of Mullett Arena they might have a response. But honestly, remaining neutral is the best position for them to take.

 

[Yukon Joe]

ASU's President says in the article Llama posted that the university stays neutral when it comes to local referendums.

If someone were to ask them how well the Coyotes are behaving in reference to their use of Mullett Arena they might have a response. But honestly, remaining neutral is the best position for them to take.

I get that. But if ASU was quietly opposed behind the scenes all they had to do with refuse the Coyotes permission to play at Mullett arena. By allowing the Yotes to plat at Mullett that's actually a big thing in support of the Yotes (even if ASU also benefits).

 

[Boris Zubov]

I get that. But if ASU was quietly opposed behind the scenes all they had to do with refuse the Coyotes permission to play at Mullett arena. By allowing the Yotes to plat at Mullett that's actually a big thing in support of the Yotes (even if ASU also benefits).

The fact that they had a $25M annex handed to them for nothing shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[TheLegend]

I get that. But if ASU was quietly opposed behind the scenes all they had to do with refuse the Coyotes permission to play at Mullett arena. By allowing the Yotes to plat at Mullett that's actually a big thing in support of the Yotes (even if ASU also benefits).

The fact that they had a $25M annex handed to them for nothing shouldn't be overlooked.

From the university's POV.... it was a mutually beneficial business deal.

Seems that the "No" people are going to continue the "distortion of facts" route in order to scare the resident who might be sitting on the fence with this proposal and scare them off to their side.

I'm seeing claims of everything from the arena going use a million gallons of water every day, causing massive water bill increases, to "displacing 65% of Tempe residents."

The first one is based on a survey Tempe did that the entire TED district at build out (which will take 10 years) would consume that much water. But it's being projected as just the arena would cause that. The other one is based on an NBA franchise building a new arena in another city that would displace some people. Or as someone put it... "whataboutism".

 

[Boris Zubov]

From the university's POV.... it was a mutually beneficial business deal.

Seems that the "No" people are going to continue the "distortion of facts" route in order to scare the resident who might be sitting on the fence with this proposal and scare them off to their side.

I'm seeing claims of everything from the arena going use a million gallons of water every day, causing massive water bill increases, to "displacing 65% of Tempe residents."

The first one is based on a survey Tempe did that the entire TED district at build out (which will take 10 years) would consume that much water. But it's being projected as just the arena would cause that. The other one is based on an NBA franchise building a new arena in another city that would displace some people. Or as someone put it... "whataboutism".

Of course. The annex for them was a no brainer. Because of that I'm more of the belief the University would be pro-TED.

 

[TheLegend]

Of course. The annex for them was a no brainer. Because of that I'm more of the belief the University would be pro-TED.

Unofficially I'm sure they are. It's just a better look for them if they stay politically neutral and stick to saying their business arrangement with the Coyotes has been a good one..

 

[awfulwaffle]

@TheLegend Can you help me ensure I'm understanding the setup correctly? My understanding is all taxes within TED itself would be applied to this graphic, and there are no existing homeowners with property taxes where 77% of that payment would go to Tempe, and 23% would go to the bonds. I think that's the big issue here, if this really is the way it is setup, then they need to do a better job of explaining this/making people realize it. People on Twitter from Tempe 1st are claiming there's a powerpoint, and claiming that ALL city taxes are impacted and going towards the bonds.

 

[TheLegend]

@TheLegend Can you help me ensure I'm understanding the setup correctly? My understanding is all taxes within TED itself would be applied to this graphic, and there are no existing homeowners with property taxes where 77% of that payment would go to Tempe, and 23% would go to the bonds. I think that's the big issue here, if this really is the way it is setup, then they need to do a better job of explaining this/making people realize it. People on Twitter from Tempe 1st are claiming there's a powerpoint, and claiming that ALL city taxes are impacted and going towards the bonds.

Here's the summary of the DDA and it outlines the costs, and repayment of the bonds:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/99461/638054254107370000

I can't pull appropriate excerpts from it because my Acrobat Reader won't allow cut and paste as text.

In a nutshell.... the bonds are paid off from three sources generated from only within the district. They include portions of the sales (75% unrestricted, 62% restricted) and property taxes, plus any surcharges the CFD assesses within the district. More than 50% of the bonds repayments are expected to come from the CFD surcharges.

No money sources from outside the district will be used on the bonds. The DDA's pretty specific about it.

Whatever PowerPoint there may be out there.... the documents on Tempe's website are absolute and really should be the reference used.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Here's the summary of the DDA and it outlines the costs, and repayment of the bonds:

https://www.tempe.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/99461/638054254107370000

I can't pull appropriate excerpts from it because my Acrobat Reader won't allow cut and paste as text.

In a nutshell.... the bonds are paid off from three sources generated from only within the district. They include portions of the sales (75% unrestricted, 62% restricted) and property taxes, plus any surcharges the CFD assesses within the district. More than 50% of the bonds repayments are expected to come from the CFD surcharges.

No money sources from outside the district will be used on the bonds. The DDA's pretty specific about it.

Whatever PowerPoint there may be out there.... the documents on Tempe's website are absolute and really should be the reference used.

Thanks, I figured that was the case, but just wanted to double check.

 

[KevFu]

ASU's basketball arena holds 14,000 and turns 50 years old next year.

I'm no rocket surgeon, but having the ability to play MBB games at TED (with WBB/VB in Mullett) during any future renovating/rebuilding their own arena sounds like a very lovely option to have.