the whole "bad sport market" thing is such a stupid term and hyprocritical about markets
with immigration and "other sports are clowns hockey players are pure" mentally will finally killed the gatekeeping.
CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations
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KevFu
Registered User
Well college sports biggest problem... lack of revenue sharing. So hey, all my favorite things have a lot in common.
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
Xavier Gutierrez was video interviewed Monday afternoon by the local writers for GoPHNX and provided some limited responses to a variety of topics including the situation in Glendale, availability of tickets next season, dealing with the airport, the subject of Meruelo’s finances during the Tempe council meeting, etc.
It’s got a little bit of PR thrown in for sure but if you stick to noting just the details he outlines you get an idea of where things are headed.
It’s got a little bit of PR thrown in for sure but if you stick to noting just the details he outlines you get an idea of where things are headed.
I have no problem with you saying the Coyotes should be given a chance, it's a new sport to much of the sun belt for intents and purposes and some Canadian fans go completely overboard with their comments.
But the other sports are embarrassing. The Cardinals were having blackouts not too far back and the Diamondbacks have poor attendance and hate Chase Field all of a sudden, kind of similar to the Coyotes but no one talks about it as much. These sports have been in the country a century.
It's one thing to say the Coyotes haven't been given a chance. But Phoenix is not a great sports market at all imo.
Dirty Old Man
Yotah Hockey Club
Nice work walking smack into my "people who say that are ignorant of the market" statement. The NFL team hasn't drawn below 60K/game in a 64K stadium since it opened in 2006 but for the pandemic. (Ironically, moving from Tempe to Glendale) why? Team finally was good - Larry Fitzgerald approached Barkley-level popularity here - and people didnt have to broil in Sun Devil Stadium anymore. Before 2006? Sure. But not lately. You're mistaken there.
And no the diamondbacks will never be the cubs or dodgers, but they've been around 20th the last 10 years despite the team being mediocre at best (wow, mediocre team, mediocre attendance, whoda thunk?!)...and for the "these sports have been in the USA for a century" comment...I'd invite you to go look up the population of Phoenix in the 1920 census (Arizona wasn't even a state yet in 1910) and compare that to Boston,.. New York... Chicago Etc.
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TheGreenTBer
i got the world up my ass
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It should also be mentioned that the Phoenix area is loaded with transplants, many of whom carry their original loyalties with them. None of the local teams have really been consistently successful enough to have been truly effective tools at converting those transplants (EDIT: and you might also have a few guys like me, who would rather sit on a cactus than cheer for my local teams.)
Not trying to take a conversation OT, but I felt it was relevant.
Not trying to take a conversation OT, but I felt it was relevant.
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
Meant to mention this a day or so ago but Gutierrez mentioned the report from Hunden Partners (Tempe's consultant hired to evaluate the proposal) came back positive. Paraphrasing... he said the report considered the proposal was the best possible use for the site.
Would like to see the actual report myself though.
Would like to see the actual report myself though.
I saw that in the interview you posted above. It's a good sign that they are confident and making sure that people understand their willingness to open the books and have conversations with their finance partners.
My concern for Yotes fans is the airport - they seem to have a lot of political clout.
They don't really have that much political power as you think.
They are bound to what the IGA says and per the team's lawyer says that yes the residental units are compatible up to a certian noise level. ANything beyond that is incompatible. Only thing that isn't compatible is mobile homes. Yet the airport says ALL residental units are incompatible going against WHAT the agreement says. And if they want to sue Tempe over that, they are going to be basically lying what the IGA says in front of a judge. They know what that agreement says and are intentionally ignoring in on purpose. Nevermind they never objected to other residental units being built near the airport. They want that document terminated so they can extend the run away and increase the noise level by quite a bit upsetting citizens of Tempe even more.
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Not necessarily OT since this is a somewhat of a problem with quite a few sports and markets
Ok, but let's look at Toronto Canada
Blue Jays - great
Raptors - top 10 since day one
Leafs - let's leave hockey out of this
Dallas
Cowboys - Self Explanatory
Mavericks - top 5 fanbase
Stars - again hockey, but they were one of the reasons we had the 2004 lockout for how much they spent and won
Rangers - worse location than the Dbacks and better fanbase
We can say it's ignorance or ask why the same 3 or 4 cities are having problems in the big 4 sports.
I'm not picking on Phoenix, but it's not just people on this board which has pointed out the flaws imo
Dirty Old Man
Yotah Hockey Club
The coyotes don't deserve to exist & I will tell you why one they could never fill there arena even with ticket prices that are pretty much giving them away , two they have gone bankrupt & getting evicted from there arena for not paying rent which almost happened mid season , Three if the greatest Hockey player in NHL history can't help put butts in the seats no one can .
The fact is no cares about hockey in Arizona & those who do there is not enough to make that market profitable pre Vegas now with Vegas the Golden Knights just sucked up remaining hockey market in the Southwest .
The only reason why the Coyotes are still around is out of just plain spite Bettman & the rest of the NHL. BOG. know that the coyotes are roadkill in the desert there just to stupid to admit there failure.
The fact is no cares about hockey in Arizona & those who do there is not enough to make that market profitable pre Vegas now with Vegas the Golden Knights just sucked up remaining hockey market in the Southwest .
The only reason why the Coyotes are still around is out of just plain spite Bettman & the rest of the NHL. BOG. know that the coyotes are roadkill in the desert there just to stupid to admit there failure.
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
Huh….. Must have been a 2 for 1 special at the Word Salad Bar today. 
Getting back to the actual subject….
Coyotes are hoping to get this proposal through before the end of the year.
Coyotes don’t seem to be worried about what Sky Harbor thinks since Sky Harbor was trying to impose contour maps that they created but never were certified by the FAA onto the IGA agreement. All of their housing units fall within the contours of the 1999 FAA map. That doesn’t mean Phoenix won’t try and take it to court anyway…. and as I understand how CF explained it, it can be a roll of the dice there.
Looking at ticket sales…. Gutierrez mentioned on local radio this week there’s 500 seats being made available to ASU students/alumni. Another 10% (or 470) will end up being held for single game purchase. Also will be SRO tickets that would allow you the rail bird anywhere in the arena.
Coyotes are also implementing a “first buy back” policy for STM tickets in lieu of STMs opting out of any game in their package. Coyotes would add those to the single game inventory.
Next 4-5 months are going to be interesting.
Getting back to the actual subject….
Coyotes are hoping to get this proposal through before the end of the year.
Coyotes don’t seem to be worried about what Sky Harbor thinks since Sky Harbor was trying to impose contour maps that they created but never were certified by the FAA onto the IGA agreement. All of their housing units fall within the contours of the 1999 FAA map. That doesn’t mean Phoenix won’t try and take it to court anyway…. and as I understand how CF explained it, it can be a roll of the dice there.
Looking at ticket sales…. Gutierrez mentioned on local radio this week there’s 500 seats being made available to ASU students/alumni. Another 10% (or 470) will end up being held for single game purchase. Also will be SRO tickets that would allow you the rail bird anywhere in the arena.
Coyotes are also implementing a “first buy back” policy for STM tickets in lieu of STMs opting out of any game in their package. Coyotes would add those to the single game inventory.
Next 4-5 months are going to be interesting.
If this arena deal dose go through it would be it will be a disaster because they will never fill it they will continue to lose money & be nothing but a 400 million dollar white elephant for Tempe & will continue to be 2nd biggest disaster NHL. history of course the first being the 04\05 lockout .
I think the Coyotes will be fine if this goes through. As long as he gets the real estate done, nothing else matters. He'll get his money back from owning the arena and land around it.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Didn't you read the responses from everyone telling you how Vegas and Phoenix are two entirely different metropolitan areas and markets? The Southwest isn't one hockey market as much as the midwest isn't one hockey market.
You could make plenty of arguments against the existence of the Coyotes. This isn't one of them, and you've been moronic enough to do it twice now....
TheGreenTBer
i got the world up my ass
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Jesus Christ, man. If the deal goes through it might not matter if the Coyotes lose money because Meruelo will likely turn a profit from the Tempe project itself and he might be able to write off Coyotes losses to some degree. If the project goes through they're not going anywhere.
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JimAnchower
Registered User
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Fun fact: Hamilton to closer to Ottawa than Phoenix is to Vegas.
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
Craig Morgan interviewed the mayor and vice mayor of Tempe on the proposal.
Also has a brief Q&A with Nick Woods.
(not sure if paywalled)
www.gophnx.com
Also has a brief Q&A with Nick Woods.
(not sure if paywalled)
Mayor, vice mayor offer thoughts on Coyotes’ proposed Tempe arena, entertainment district - PHNX Sports
In a lengthy Q&A, Tempe Mayor Corey Woods and Vice Mayor Randy Keating weighed in on a variety of topics surrounding the Coyotes’ proposed arena and entertainment district along the south bank of the Salt River.
www.gophnx.com
Takuto Maruki
Ideal and the real
TheGreenTBer
i got the world up my ass
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I don't have them on-tap but should be able to find something at some point, thanks for asking.
Hello,Craig Morgan interviewed the mayor and vice mayor of Tempe on the proposal.
Also has a brief Q&A with Nick Woods.
(not sure if paywalled)
Mayor, vice mayor offer thoughts on Coyotes’ proposed Tempe arena, entertainment district - PHNX Sports
In a lengthy Q&A, Tempe Mayor Corey Woods and Vice Mayor Randy Keating weighed in on a variety of topics surrounding the Coyotes’ proposed arena and entertainment district along the south bank of the Salt River.
Not to be that guy. But the Coyotes lawyer is Nick Wood without an s,, and the mayor of Tempe Corey Woods with an s. I don't see anything with Nick Wood in the article, only the Q&A with Corey Woods.
Nicholas J. Wood, P.L.L.C.
Nick Wood is a strategic and trusted real estate, zoning, and land use attorney. Nick leverages years of experience to assist his clients, including developers, corporations, municipalities, government entities, and other individuals seeking to maximize the potential of their properties and...
www.swlaw.com
Thanks
Great link, thanks Legend!Craig Morgan interviewed the mayor and vice mayor of Tempe on the proposal.
Also has a brief Q&A with Nick Woods.
(not sure if paywalled)
Mayor, vice mayor offer thoughts on Coyotes’ proposed Tempe arena, entertainment district - PHNX Sports
In a lengthy Q&A, Tempe Mayor Corey Woods and Vice Mayor Randy Keating weighed in on a variety of topics surrounding the Coyotes’ proposed arena and entertainment district along the south bank of the Salt River.
One thing I'll play a little "devil's advocate" or "here's an example of what I'm talking about..." on is how people jumped down stealth1's throat for saying they'd love to see hockey in markets that care about it as much as everyone cares about the NFL. Instead of saying "well, agree to disagree because...", everyone decided stealth1 must be a great big fat idiot for wanting that. Why are they a bad fan for wanting that? Don't we all want that? Just because it's not likely to ever happen, that doesn't mean we still shouldn't aspire for it. Wouldn't a more productive thing to say be "well, here's how having a team in Arizona today could lead to it being like that 50 years from now?," etc.
I got caught out on this type of line of thinking once on a music-related messageboard. Someone was talking about the usual trolls and why they should take off, and I (ignorantly) replied "the internet is a cesspool and we shouldn't judge this board on bad comments, etc. etc. etc." Someone smartly put me in my place and said "just because the internet is filled with 99.9% garbage messageboards, that's no reason for us not to aspire to be among the 0.1%."
Also, "there's so much more to do in <insert non-traditional market>" isn't the logical own you think it is. Canadians believe that hockey *should* trump all of those other things to do. I sometimes think Americans believe the only reason we love hockey the way we do is *because* we don't have all the precious things you have or do (or alternately imagine us not having or doing...I've met some Americans that seem to think Canadians never leave the house because apparently we can't golf or something).
I assure you, you could plunk ten NFL teams, 20 MLB teams, 20 NBA teams in Canada tomorrow with 30-year non-relocation clauses. 30 years later, the NHL would still be the most popular league and hockey would still be the most popular sport. We don't love hockey because it's a precious leftover you deigned to give us. We love it because most of us think it's the most exciting sport in the world and are offended when people believe their city should have the *highest level of it* (because heaven forfend you try to grow the sport through college or minor league activity, it's beneath you).
And if my screed above reads as condescending, I assure you it's still 50% less condescending as "Calgary loves the Flames because there $#!+@|| else to do or watch in Calgary..."
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Ballard tied to Gardens abuse, suit says
The Globe and Mail offers the most authoritative news in Canada, featuring national and international news
www.theglobeandmail.com
Maple Leaf Gardens Sex Scandal
This article was originally published in Maclean’s magazine on March 10, 1997. Partner content is not updated. John McCarthy can still recall the day in 1...
www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca
Maple Leaf Gardens pedophile Gordon Stuckless faces new charges
The last living “Monster of Maple Leaf Gardens” — of the trio who perpetrated the massive child sex scandal that tarnished the hockey shrine from the dressing room …
torontosun.com
@TheGreenTBer needs to add the word "allegedly" because the coward died before the victims could look him in the eyes in court
TheGreenTBer
i got the world up my ass
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Thanks for finding those, Barclay.Ballard tied to Gardens abuse, suit says
The Globe and Mail offers the most authoritative news in Canada, featuring national and international newsMaple Leaf Gardens Sex Scandal
This article was originally published in Maclean’s magazine on March 10, 1997. Partner content is not updated. John McCarthy can still recall the day in 1...Maple Leaf Gardens pedophile Gordon Stuckless faces new charges
The last living “Monster of Maple Leaf Gardens” — of the trio who perpetrated the massive child sex scandal that tarnished the hockey shrine from the dressing room …
@TheGreenTBer needs to add the word "allegedly" because the coward died before the victims could look him in the eyes in court
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