Thanks for the link
Winnipeg Jets to Relocate in Desert
PHOENIX (AP) _ What began with an exploratory phone call from Canada likely will end with the Winnipeg Jets relocating to the desert next season. Jerry Colangelo, president of the NBA's Phoenix Suns, said Monday that a deal to move the NHL team here should be completed sometime this week...apnews.com
I would guess that if they had done that it would have needed to be replaced by now.
CXLIII - UPDATED 6/3 - Coyotes arena deal takes next step after Tempe council votes to open negotiations
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Stumbledore
Registered User
Nothing to see here. No imminent trainwreck. Those waiting with bated breath for the Coyotes to collapse can exhale and go home now. It isn't going to happen.
BigRedWings
Registered User
- Jun 11, 2022
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I've found that quite a few Canadians seem hellbent on turning watching grown men play a glorified kids' game for 'a living' into some sorta patriotic statement. These are mercenaries who play where they can make the most money and who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire, and yet these folks act like living vicariously through them is a way to own the Americans. It's as sad as the "own the libs" crap, really. I'm not saying the way the NHL has carried itself the past while has been perfect - Lord knows it hasn't - but it seems to me like these folks should just stop watching if what's supposed to be entertainment bothers them so much.
It's a little more complicated than that. I think in many ways, it's Canadians wanting to have the finest of something and point to it: "Here in Canada, we have the best ___________." Because Americans have that. We want a little of that also.
For e.g., you can get Italian food anywhere in the world and esp. in North America. But there's a general assumption that you'll find the *best* Italian food in <surprise surprise> Italy! But hockey? The NHL has put the best hockey players in the world geographically all over the U.S. Personally, I think this is a good thing but for a lot of Canadians, it's like a bit of a slap in the fact, especially when market forces-- such as they are-- won't allow for there to be a second Horseshoe team or Quebec City team. Now, I agree with you that at the end of the day, it's all a bit silly (for e.g., who's to say that other parts of the world including America haven't already poached the finest Italian cooks, etc. etc.) but it is a feeling a lot of people have.
It's all a lot bigger than hockey but hockey is still just a game that's part of a business at the end of the day. And most people just don't understand how modern day businesses work.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
We know where it used to be.
Leading up to the 2020 elections and reading many assessments of Atlanta’s economy leading up to that sounded kind of familiar to me… how there were growing small business opportunities in the city itself, the arts scene, all the elements I saw in Portland when I returned more than 10 years ago.
It’s exciting stuff, really. One thing, though… while the Braves obviously got a short term boost moving to the suburbs, I question if it‘s a wise long-term move.
Stumbledore
Registered User
BigRedWings
Registered User
- Jun 11, 2022
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I understand entirely that there's folks out there who just want their Nords back, who just want a team to cheer for. That's fine. I ain't got any problem with them. But there's quite the vocal contingent of Canadian/trad fans who just seem so miserable and think the league is out to get them. Really? So why isn't Matthews already in Arizona? Why isn't McDavid playing for a faltering American franchise? It's those folks who need to learn a little perspective. They're acting like Bettman's withholding the cure to AIDS or something, the way they post.
BigRedWings
Registered User
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In a time of ever increasing ticket prices and more and more teams content with mediocrity, how can we truly judge a market? Besides, if we really cared so much about market viability, we'd just dissolve every small market team, as most players are just gonna chase endorsements in big markets anyway. I mean, look at how Kawhi quit on the Spurs, arguably the model franchise in sports, then bailed on Toronto to play for the most irrelevant team in sports history in the Clippers. Why? Because they're in LA...
Eventually yes it did. However not in 1997 when Houston was trying to steal them.
Dirty Old Man
Yotah Hockey Club
You know who no one talks about being a bad sports market nowadays? Tampa. Baseball people still do, maybe. But no one ever brings up the Buccaneers or Lightning. Wonder why that is....what did Tampa do right that other markets with similar size and demographics (and weather) haven't?
(Hint: the teams are successful....a reminder for the millionth time that in the mid 00s no one admitted to being Penguin or Blackhawk fans.)
And in the 90s all 3 of Tampa's teams were horrible with attendance to match. People who say things about other markets I have found to be generally ignorant of those markets...but this place should be awarded a cake.
The Lightning were regularly topping attendance records throughout the 90s. The first year was in the Expo Hall and then several in what is now Tropicana field where it had something like 26k seats. The 'lean' years were from 97-98 to 02-03. Only 9 years in its entire existence has TBL been under 16k avg with the above-mentioned Expo Hall only having like 11k capacity. One of those was due to the cancelled season and the other due to Covid. Two of those seasons, they averaged over 15k.
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Dirty Old Man
Yotah Hockey Club
I don't recall anyone saying Tampa was a bad sports town in general. The Bucs were one of the teams rumored to be moving to Cleveland when the original Browns announced they were going to Baltimore so I was following their stadium developments religiously.
When it comes to baseball, part of the problem is you've got spring training there so people get to see every team for like $10 a game. Also, you have people who became fans of the teams that did spring training or have minor league teams in their area
For me being a Canadian It's the lack of passion the majority of the US have for the best game in the world. I look at football and all year round it's non stop talk about it, even in markets that have NHL teams. I could less where teams are located, I just want to someday see the US as passionate at the game as I am.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
Has there been an attempt to move the Coyotes that wasn’t, in the NHL’s frame of mind, a lowball?
AZDesertKnight
Deactivated Coyotes Fan
Take it from someone born and raised in Calgary, AB..
There is way more $%^& to do in most U.S. Cities with hockey than JUST hockey. In Calgary, The Flames WERE THE ONLY thing going on..
It's not comparable at all. This gatekeeping of Hockey based on national passion for the sport is ridiculous. Get over it!
That's not what I am saying at all. I just would like to see the same passion that people have for the NFL to come to hockey.
Yukon Joe
Registered User
Who knows?
The NHL doesn't discuss relocation in public until it's a done deal - and of course there has only been one relocation in the last 25 years.
The only public attempt we know of to relocate the Coyote was Balsillie more than a decade ago, which of course the league strenuously opposed. Behind the scenes though who knows what has happened (or not happened).
AZDesertKnight
Deactivated Coyotes Fan
MLB and NBA barely have the passion that the NFL has in this Country. Weird stance to take bro.
KevFu
Registered User
I agree with your sentiment, but wanted to point out that the NHL has the lowest and worst form of revenue sharing. The NFL has the MOST, which is part of the reason they're so filthy rich: It's a rising tide that lifts all boats. The revenue sharing is so large (like 68% of all league revenues) that the league had zero problem not have a team in LOS ANGELES for a couple decades.
The NHL's revenue sharing is a dumb way to do it. The Robin Hood system of "top pays bottom" creates animosity, of "why should our successful team pay that unsuccessful one?" Whereas the NFL/NBA/MLB system (everything throws in X percent of local revenues, and then you get a check back, greater than what you put in because we added the national TV money to it) works so much better.
It boils down to: You need someone to play, and if we eliminated the poorest teams, then the "Top Half/Bottom Half" system is just going to make teams now in the middle "the new poor teams," and you'll repeat contraction until the entire league is the richest team beating the poor team.
The NHL needs more revenue sharing, because there's a cap on salaries, so your favorite teams' profits can either "grow the game" in the poor markets and make them healthier, or it can go into the owners already deep pockets and benefit no one. AND the healthier the poorest teams in the league are, the faster the NHL can say "We're making plenty of money, let's bring the Nordiques back for no other reason than we can afford it."
I think the lack of RS has been a detriment here, as well. You can hire creative people to lure people in and get them hooked on the intoxicating drug of hockey by giving them a great fan experience. But that costs money.
When a poor team has to spend 90% of revenues on salary midpoint and general operations to just run the team, what gets cut from the budget? Marketing, publicity and community outreach gets cut first; scouting and analytics second. So the poor teams aren't resourced TO GROW, they're only resourced TO SURVIVE.
If the NHL switched their RS system to a "every team puts in X percent" model, they could then dictate the amount from each league RS check that must be put into "Growing Revenues" and setting the goal for the poor teams of "spend to be the most fan-friendly team in your market." And then you could start to see revenues across the board grow. Which becomes a rising tide.
KevFu
Registered User
I'd also argue that college sports have a higher fan passion level than the NFL. The NFL has a ton of coverage and people eat it up because they love football.
But college is different because college is a larger part of who you are as a person. No one expects to see your favorite pro teams on a resume, but they DO expect to see your alma mater.
The Jacksonville Jaguars don't have great attendance. Their stadium was/is "too big" to have consistent sellouts. It's way bigger than what an NFL needs in that market.
But it was built that big for Georgia vs Florida in the World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party, because that game WILL sell 82,000 tickets.
Yup. Those 3 whole seasons out of 8 total and 5 of those were almost at or exceeding planned capacity.
I would argue the NBA is the second-largest sports and has the largest presence on social media
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