CXLI - UPDATE 1/27 - Coyotes working on deal to play at 5,000-seat arena at ASU

[OG6ix]

This is why the NHL. is a joke of a major sports league it won't admit that some NHL. markets are failures like Arizona & by keeping them there is just bad business by now the coyotes losses must be in the billions if this was any other sports league the coyotes would been moved years ago & this is why the NHL. is dead last in popularity & most business categories out of all 5 major sports leagues & yes I said 5 I am including the MLS. even they are doing better than the NHL.

LOL you mentioned MLS hahaha. It's only behind NFl, MlB and NBA.

 

[LetsGoIslanders]

Can we please put this dog to sleep?

Bettman should tell the owners to move the franchise or sell it.

 

[TheLegend]

I’m genuinely shocked they’re going to play years in a 5000 seat arena. I would have thought there was a $ amount that could be reached with Glendale that would have made far more sense. This is serious bush league stuff.

Glendale doesn't want them unless they're willing to stay another 12-15 years.... period. They aren't backing down on that.

Glendale also doesn't want them going off and building another arena they would have to compete with for concerts and other events. They already have Footprint (Suns) to compete with.

Therefore it was in Glendale's best interest to try and force them into a long term or make it as difficult as possible to get another location in Arizona.

 

[KevFu]

One of the worst franchises in the league since the 90s
One of the worst attendance averages in the league for a long time running.
A temporary home with below NHL standard attendance.

Then got a new arena in a much better place.

The Islanders are 5th in attendance this season; The Coyotes will be fine.

I live in the Coyotes market. It took me an hour and 6 minutes to get to Glendale for the NYI at ARZ game this season. Last Islanders visit, I had to take the day off of work. Downtown Hamilton is closer to downtown Toronto than the East Valley is to Glendale.

 

[Fenway]

https://the-jeff-marek-show.simplec...riedman-are-the-coyotes-heading-to-university

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The game has grown obviously but it's still not enough. The Coyotes will never make a profit even if this arena is built. They will continue to have to rely on the NHL.

Who’s to say it’s not enough? The NHL’s resolve has shown otherwise to date.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Glendale doesn't want them unless they're willing to stay another 12-15 years.... period. They aren't backing down on that.

Glendale also doesn't want them going off and building another arena they would have to compete with for concerts and other events. They already have Footprint (Suns) to compete with.

Therefore it was in Glendale's best interest to try and force them into a long term or make it as difficult as possible to get another location in Arizona.

Rational speculation, but speculation, just the same.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

MLS will be gone in 10-15 years, if not sooner. Globalization will be slowed/stopped and the middle class will stop being degraded. AKA Hockey will grow faster.

This isn't a political position and I'm not saying that's/good/bad/other, I'm simply saying what's going to happen.

Ok now you are back on that crack again.

 

[TheLegend]

Rational speculation, but speculation, just the same.

So it's speculation that the city of Glendale was willing to sign such a franchise owned by someone they've characterized more than once as a deadbeat to a 12-year plus lease???

 

[MNNumbers]

So it's speculation that the city of Glendale was willing to sign such a franchise owned by someone they've characterized more than once as a deadbeat to a 12-year plus lease???

As I have said numerous times.....
"Glendale" actually means.....every individual involved in the decision making process. Every one of them probably has different ideas and motives and conclusions. Describing the city as if it were one brain is probably not the most nuanced way to discern what's actually happening.

For example.....IF the team were willing to sign long term, it would make a lot of sense for the city to contract with them. After all, the place was built for hockey.
HOWEVER....Once it starts to look like that isn't possible, then all kinds of different thoughts go through the mind of the council members. Among them is.....Meruelo is very difficult to work with.
AND....Certainly, once it becomes obvious that Meruelo has other options, then OF COURSE, Glendale is going to do everything they can to stop a new arena from being built.

There is nothing underhanded about any of this.
1- Meruelo was apparently assuming that Glendale would give him a red carpet until his fancy new arena in Tempe was complete. He wants the new arena because NHL hockey in Arizona by itself(with no ancillary incomes) is not solvent in any way. Since there is no AMF at GRA, and nothing else in the area belongs to Meruelo, he needs a different. IOW...There isn't enough money available while playing in Glendale to satisfy both the team and the city.

2- Glendale didn't like being take for a ride in the way IA did to them, so they have been using their leverage ever since, and it has seemed as if the team needed the city more than the city needed the team. However, once a new arena looked possible, Glendale's interests are to prevent a new arena from appearing for competition reasons. They could have prevented the idea from ever seeding by giving the Yotes more money, but as we saw above.....there isn't enough money available playing the Glendale to keep both parties happy.

This sums up the entire situation for the last 12 months.

 

[Roadrage]

So, if the Coyotes do play at ASU's arena, I'm guessing they will be considered the tenant and ASU hockey has dibs on booking game nights (I think they only play their home games Friday-Sunday). Would that be a fair assumption?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

So it's speculation that the city of Glendale was willing to sign such a franchise owned by someone they've characterized more than once as a deadbeat to a 12-year plus lease???

According to you they aren’t backing down from that = speculation.

 

[MNNumbers]

According to you they aren’t backing down from that = speculation.

There are multiple stories about the city planning a renovation at cost of about 50M, for which HOK has been hired....all of which has always been described as...."Since the Coyotes are leaving."

This suggests that Glendale has no desire to return to the Coyotes.

Now, granted, it is entirely possible that all of that is negotiation. That's possible. One cannot say it is impossible.

But there sure looks like lots of information available to say it is true that Glendale is not backing down.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

There are multiple stories about the city planning a renovation at cost of about 50M, for which HOK has been hired....all of which has always been described as...."Since the Coyotes are leaving."

This suggests that Glendale has no desire to return to the Coyotes.

Now, granted, it is entirely possible that all of that is negotiation. That's possible. One cannot say it is impossible.

But there sure looks like lots of information available to say it is true that Glendale is not backing down.

You've always been one of the more rational, level headed individuals outside of the Phoenix metro that has commented on this situation iirc. The thing is you're talking about "stories" and stories can change. As you stated this could be negotiation, which is speculation on our part. We can also speculate that the Coyotes may anti up for the 50M in renovations for the arena, in exchange for a shorter lease term.

All in all, we don't know diddly, nor squat..... hell ASU may be playing along with the Coyotes to lend credibility to the story that the Coyotes are intent on playing in a 5,000 fan capacity arena, for all we know.

 

[Acesolid]

For the people insinuating it's an acceptable temporary Venue: this is the 5000 seat ASU Arena in question.

The idea it could realistically host and NHL team for years is ABSURD.

It makes my closest small-town Junior hockey arena look like the Madison Square Garden, with almost TWICE the capacity.

 

[MNNumbers]

For the people insinuating it's an acceptable temporary Venue: this is the 5000 seat ASU Arena in question.

The idea it could realistically host and NHL team for years is ABSURD.

It makes my closest small-town Junior hockey arena look like the Madison Square Garden, with almost TWICE the capacity.

I thought the ASU rink in question was one which wasn't finished yet.

 

[Acesolid]

I thought the ASU rink in question was one which wasn't finished yet.

Yes, but when finished it will look exaclty like this. This is the digitally created preview what the finished arena will look like.

 

[cbcwpg]

For the people insinuating it's an acceptable temporary Venue: this is the 5000 seat ASU Arena in question.

The idea it could realistically host and NHL team for years is ABSURD.

It makes my closest small-town Junior hockey arena look like the Madison Square Garden, with almost TWICE the capacity.

It's not just the number of seats either. The NHL has a lot of stringent things they want in an arena that is hosting their teams. Lighting, boards, glass, camera angles / positions, media facilities, dressing room facilities for home and visitors, etc. The list is extensive.

So could the NHL get away with sub-standard facilities ( by NHL standards ) for 3 or 4 years? And have that pass mustard from the NHLPA?

And as for the fans... I will be really curious to see what season ticket prices will be like. You could end up where people have been paying $X are now being asked to pay 2 or 3 times $X. The team knows they will lose money, but I can't imagine they would keep prices the same .

 

[MNNumbers]

You've always been one of the more rational, level headed individuals outside of the Phoenix metro that has commented on this situation iirc. The thing is you're talking about "stories" and stories can change. As you stated this could be negotiation, which is speculation on our part. We can also speculate that the Coyotes may anti up for the 50M in renovations for the arena, in exchange for a shorter lease term.

All in all, we don't know diddly, nor squat..... hell ASU may be playing along with the Coyotes to lend credibility to the story that the Coyotes are intent on playing in a 5,000 fan capacity arena, for all we know.

If your definition of "know" is "we are completely 100% sure this is what is going to happen", then you are correct, we don't 'know' much.

We know that Meruelo has responded to a RFP put out by the city of Tempe. We know his proposal is for an approximately 1.7B development which includes an arena which is suitable for hockey. We know that it will take a few years for such a place to be built, if it is built. We know that, for the 21-22 season, the team is playing at GRA in Glendale. We know that Glendale has given notice that they are not going to renew the lease for the next season. We know that ASU has made a statement about helping the Coyotes as their new arena is built.

That's about all we 'know', if that is your definition. Confirmation of the rest of what we surmise might be happening will continue to show up in the future months.

 

[aqib]

One of the worst franchises in the league since the 90s
One of the worst attendance averages in the league for a long time running.
A temporary home with below NHL standard attendance.

Then got a new arena in a much better place.

The Islanders are 5th in attendance this season; The Coyotes will be fine.

I live in the Coyotes market. It took me an hour and 6 minutes to get to Glendale for the NYI at ARZ game this season. Last Islanders visit, I had to take the day off of work. Downtown Hamilton is closer to downtown Toronto than the East Valley is to Glendale.

OMG an hour! It took you an hour! In Long Island it takes an hour to get anywhere.

As far as downtown Toronto to downtown Hamilton goes, its takes 45 minutes on a weekend during Covid with no traffic, so if you tried to do it at game time it would be much longer.

 

[JimAnchower]

There are multiple stories about the city planning a renovation at cost of about 50M, for which HOK has been hired....all of which has always been described as...."Since the Coyotes are leaving."

This suggests that Glendale has no desire to return to the Coyotes.

Now, granted, it is entirely possible that all of that is negotiation. That's possible. One cannot say it is impossible.

But there sure looks like lots of information available to say it is true that Glendale is not backing down.

My thoughts all along were it was a negotiation tactic, until Glendale revealed that the Coyotes haven't been paying their taxes and other payments, and threaten to kick them out if they don't pay up. You don't publicly reveal embarrassing information like that with someone you might want to work with again.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Can we please put this dog to sleep?

Bettman should tell the owners to move the franchise or sell it.

So based on your username, you are an Islanders fan. A team that was struggling to draw fans, moved to Brooklyn where the sigh lines were horrible for people, moved back to Nassau(didn't they have to renovate it a bit?), until you FINALLY got a new arena. Glad you can sympathize with a fanbase that's going through the same ordeals as your Islanders were.

 

[awfulwaffle]

It's not just the number of seats either. The NHL has a lot of stringent things they want in an arena that is hosting their teams. Lighting, boards, glass, camera angles / positions, media facilities, dressing room facilities for home and visitors, etc. The list is extensive.

So could the NHL get away with sub-standard facilities ( by NHL standards ) for 3 or 4 years? And have that pass mustard from the NHLPA?

And as for the fans... I will be really curious to see what season ticket prices will be like. You could end up where people have been paying $X are now being asked to pay 2 or 3 times $X. The team knows they will lose money, but I can't imagine they would keep prices the same .

Pretty sure the NHL is on board with this, Daly has already stated as such(mentioned earlier in this thread).

 

[awfulwaffle]

For the people insinuating it's an acceptable temporary Venue: this is the 5000 seat ASU Arena in question.

The idea it could realistically host and NHL team for years is ABSURD.

It makes my closest small-town Junior hockey arena look like the Madison Square Garden, with almost TWICE the capacity.

Boo hoo. If you look at where the Chargers were playing before Sofi stadium, same could be said about them. There are some high school football statdiums in TX that are bigger than where they were playing.

 

[TheLegend]

As I have said numerous times.....
"Glendale" actually means.....every individual involved in the decision making process. Every one of them probably has different ideas and motives and conclusions. Describing the city as if it were one brain is probably not the most nuanced way to discern what's actually happening.

For example.....IF the team were willing to sign long term, it would make a lot of sense for the city to contract with them. After all, the place was built for hockey.
HOWEVER....Once it starts to look like that isn't possible, then all kinds of different thoughts go through the mind of the council members. Among them is.....Meruelo is very difficult to work with.
AND....Certainly, once it becomes obvious that Meruelo has other options, then OF COURSE, Glendale is going to do everything they can to stop a new arena from being built.

There is nothing underhanded about any of this.
1- Meruelo was apparently assuming that Glendale would give him a red carpet until his fancy new arena in Tempe was complete. He wants the new arena because NHL hockey in Arizona by itself(with no ancillary incomes) is not solvent in any way. Since there is no AMF at GRA, and nothing else in the area belongs to Meruelo, he needs a different. IOW...There isn't enough money available while playing in Glendale to satisfy both the team and the city.

2- Glendale didn't like being take for a ride in the way IA did to them, so they have been using their leverage ever since, and it has seemed as if the team needed the city more than the city needed the team. However, once a new arena looked possible, Glendale's interests are to prevent a new arena from appearing for competition reasons. They could have prevented the idea from ever seeding by giving the Yotes more money, but as we saw above.....there isn't enough money available playing the Glendale to keep both parties happy.

This sums up the entire situation for the last 12 months.

My point has always been Glendale would have done this no matter who owned the Coyotes. And I don't blame them for it, because it was inevitable. Even Greg Jamison was looking for sites in Scottsdale when he was bidding to buy the Coyotes. His lease would have been just as costly (from $11-21 million per year in subsidies) to Glendale as IA's was and would be expiring within the next year or so. He had a clause that would have allowed him to buy GRA during the final five years but that was window dressing.

Like I said.... I don't blame Glendale for what they're doing. But I won't allow it to be ignored either. Their track record over the years of throwing a fit whenever there was serious talk about the team going somewhere else in Phoenix metro supports it.