Post-Game Talk: Curses Penguined Again

[surixon]

I also think Laine with Scheifele will be good for Bright Eyes. IMO at least Scheifele is looking too much for the set up from Wheeler. With Laine he will be forced to be more of a puck retriever and win the battles along the boards which he excels at. My one concern is he will take more of a pounding but I think Matty P helps offset this with his tenacious play.

Good point on Scheifele, he is at his best when he is both looking to pass and shoot.

 

[pucka lucka]

Its not really about punishing him, its about putting him into a position where he needs to start being aggressive to drive results. Also putting him with a pure playmaker like Petan might get his goal scoring going. I also don't have an issue putting him with Scheifele. I think we have seen enough of Laine's game over the last few seasons to know that when he is moving his feet and is engaged he is a dangerous player, when he floats around he is awful. We need to get it to a point where his default game is to play more aggressively and to move his feet.

I agree with your assessment of linemates. I just think Laine is too valuable as a shooter to play that little. I think Perreault-Lowry-Laine would be a great experiment without forcing Superstar Coach Paul Maurice to separate conjoined fraternal twins Wheeler-Scheif

 

[KingBogo]

Its not really about punishing him, its about putting him into a position where he needs to start being aggressive to drive results. Also putting him with a pure playmaker like Petan might get his goal scoring going. I also don't have an issue putting him with Scheifele. I think we have seen enough of Laine's game over the last few seasons to know that when he is moving his feet and is engaged he is a dangerous player, when he floats around he is awful. We need to get it to a point where his default game is to play more aggressively and to move his feet.

I don't see how Petan and Laine will ever work. Neither can drive the play. They would never see the offensive zone. I guess you could have Ehlers with them for zone exits and entries, but Petan will never see the lineup if Ehlers isn't out.

 

[ffh]

laine is looking more and more like pool party every game.

 

[pucka lucka]

I don't see how Petan and Laine will ever work. Neither can drive the play. They would never see the offensive zone. I guess you could have Ehlers with them for zone exits and entries, but Petan will never see the lineup if Ehlers isn't out.

Petan doesn't drive play because most of his career he's been out of position with replacement level players.

 

[WPGChief]

Halfway like this post - but I see a little too much excuse making. The kind of bad luck you point to is exactly what happens to teams that are not playing well. And the injuries are no excuse.

Sometimes that's just the way it goes. If the Jets continued playing their style of game, I would be more comfortable leaving it at the coin flipping heads instead of tails. But I think it was apparent to everyone that at least 3/4 of the team slowed down and played reactionary to the Penguins game rather than trying to play their own, and didn't put much effort for second-chances or blocking Murray's field of vision. That's clearly not a successful gameplan, especially against Matt Murray who is extremely hot lately. I fault the team more than luck on in this one.

The Jets need to discover a way to move up the ice without Trouba, Morrissey, or Byfuglien, because the other third of their defense can't do it as easily or as often successfully. Myers brings it up himself, takes a shot, and gets caught too deep in the zone; Kulikov often holds on to it too long in his own zone and passes behind his own net to relieve pressure; Chiarot commonly just passes it to his partner; Morrow does... Morrow things. The Pens got around this in their first of their back-to-back Stanley Cup wins by leaving it to their forwards and their talent - the Jets should be able to do the same, but it's clear that most of the team waits for the first pass from a good defenceman, or have Ehlers carry it with speed. Too much standing around going on.

 

[raideralex99]

I think you have to look at things a certain way in this instance. What could we have done differently that was under our control? If Wheeler doesn’t put his stick in the lane, they may not even score. That’s something under our control that I think you have to focus on and not so much the flukey bounce. I mean if he angles his stick any other way, does it go in? We can’t say. Same goes for the second goal and Kuli going for the hit. The decision to go for the hit put everything else in motion. I think you have to ignore the bounces and focus on what we could have done differently to insure we don’t get those bad breaks.

This is true but on the other hand when a player puts his stick in the lane he prevents a pass or a shot on goal it goes unnoticed by the fans because it does not make the highlight reel. Teams on winning streaks get those breaks or bounces ... Pens have now won 8 in a row.
This game is fast and a game of inches ... you can't win them all. I don't know why people are upset if the Jets have a bad game especially when they are in first place.
Also don't forget the opposing teams know the Jets are a good team and they get up for those games ... relax in a 7 game series the Jets are not going to have 4 bad games.

 

[surixon]

I don't see how Petan and Laine will ever work. Neither can drive the play. They would never see the offensive zone. I guess you could have Ehlers with them for zone exits and entries, but Petan will never see the lineup if Ehlers isn't out.

Petan has driven the play this year pretty well. He has also been good at zone exits and entries. I think you are underestimating him a bit in this regard. It isn't shocking that the fourth line has performed better from a shot metrics performance with him then without. If that isn't driving the play I don't know what is.

 

[surixon]

Sometimes that's just the way it goes. If the Jets continued playing their style of game, I would be more comfortable leaving it at the coin flipping heads instead of tails. But I think it was apparent to everyone that at least 3/4 of the team slowed down and played reactionary to the Penguins game rather than trying to play their own, and didn't put much effort for second-chances or blocking Murray's field of vision. That's clearly not a successful gameplan, especially against Matt Murray who is extremely hot lately. I fault the team more than luck on in this one.

The Jets need to discover a way to move up the ice without Trouba, Morrissey, or Byfuglien, because the other third of their defense can't do it as easily or as often successfully. Myers brings it up himself, takes a shot, and gets caught too deep in the zone; Kulikov often holds on to it too long in his own zone and passes behind his own net to relieve pressure; Chiarot commonly just passes it to his partner; Morrow does... Morrow things. The Pens got around this in their first of their back-to-back Stanley Cup wins by leaving it to their forwards and their talent - the Jets should be able to do the same, but it's clear that most of the team waits for the first pass from a good defenceman, or have Ehlers carry it with speed. Too much standing around going on.

Good post. This is compounded by poor gaps in the nz by our forwards which doesn't allow our d to be as aggressive at the blue line and quickly force turnovers.

Adding another good puck mover in Niku may help here as well

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think you have to look at things a certain way in this instance. What could we have done differently that was under our control? If Wheeler doesn’t put his stick in the lane, they may not even score. That’s something under our control that I think you have to focus on and not so much the flukey bounce. I mean if he angles his stick any other way, does it go in? We can’t say. Same goes for the second goal and Kuli going for the hit. The decision to go for the hit put everything else in motion. I think you have to ignore the bounces and focus on what we could have done differently to insure we don’t get those bad breaks.

There are always bounces, for and against. We were soundly outplayed. Seldom looked like a threat to score. If Helle gave up 2 fewer goals, we still lose if we can't score even 1. Helle has not been noticeably good this year. Not at all. He may not stand out as bad either. There may be bad bounce excuses for a lot of the goals he has surrendered. But the fact is that he simply isn't making enough saves.

What we could have done differently is score some goals and make more saves. Yeah, Duh, obviously.
Helle needs to track the puck better. Everybody else needs to play harder on the puck, skate harder, go to the net harder. To my eye there is a lack of urgency, of desperation, determination. Maybe a little too confident, complacent.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He's been sharper the last few don't you agree?

Not so much the last few, but there did seem to be an uptick a while back. I think he has backslid a little since then.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sometimes that's just the way it goes. If the Jets continued playing their style of game, I would be more comfortable leaving it at the coin flipping heads instead of tails. But I think it was apparent to everyone that at least 3/4 of the team slowed down and played reactionary to the Penguins game rather than trying to play their own, and didn't put much effort for second-chances or blocking Murray's field of vision. That's clearly not a successful gameplan, especially against Matt Murray who is extremely hot lately. I fault the team more than luck on in this one.

The Jets need to discover a way to move up the ice without Trouba, Morrissey, or Byfuglien, because the other third of their defense can't do it as easily or as often successfully. Myers brings it up himself, takes a shot, and gets caught too deep in the zone; Kulikov often holds on to it too long in his own zone and passes behind his own net to relieve pressure; Chiarot commonly just passes it to his partner; Morrow does... Morrow things. The Pens got around this in their first of their back-to-back Stanley Cup wins by leaving it to their forwards and their talent - the Jets should be able to do the same, but it's clear that most of the team waits for the first pass from a good defenceman, or have Ehlers carry it with speed. Too much standing around going on.

Yup.
Standing around, as in deferring to certain others. They need to each want the puck. They need to be more assertive and aggressive.

 

[LowLefty]

Might be time for the captain to step up, one way or another. Play the 2 guys from the PB on the 2nd line? A bag skate or 2? IDK, but something.

Thing is, listening to Paul after the games, you get the impression he isn't that concerned and none of this will happen.
Maybe there is a level of concern and it's being addressed behind doors - hope so.

 

[LowLefty]

I also think Laine with Scheifele will be good for Bright Eyes. IMO at least Scheifele is looking too much for the set up from Wheeler. With Laine he will be forced to be more of a puck retriever and win the battles along the boards which he excels at. My one concern is he will take more of a pounding but I think Matty P helps offset this with his tenacious play.

This could very well be what stops Mo from making this move -He doesn't want his #1 center playing that role full time to support Laine.

 

[puck stoppa]

Sometimes that's just the way it goes. If the Jets continued playing their style of game, I would be more comfortable leaving it at the coin flipping heads instead of tails. But I think it was apparent to everyone that at least 3/4 of the team slowed down and played reactionary to the Penguins game rather than trying to play their own, and didn't put much effort for second-chances or blocking Murray's field of vision. That's clearly not a successful gameplan, especially against Matt Murray who is extremely hot lately. I fault the team more than luck on in this one.

The Jets need to discover a way to move up the ice without Trouba, Morrissey, or Byfuglien, because the other third of their defense can't do it as easily or as often successfully. Myers brings it up himself, takes a shot, and gets caught too deep in the zone; Kulikov often holds on to it too long in his own zone and passes behind his own net to relieve pressure; Chiarot commonly just passes it to his partner; Morrow does... Morrow things. The Pens got around this in their first of their back-to-back Stanley Cup wins by leaving it to their forwards and their talent - the Jets should be able to do the same, but it's clear that most of the team waits for the first pass from a good defenceman, or have Ehlers carry it with speed. Too much standing around going on.

His name is Niku, you wanna add a fourth puck mover that can pass it better than Chiarot, then he’s your guy. Play the kid this month, it’s time to give him a long look, we know what we have in others.

 

[Daximus]

This could very well be what stops Mo from making this move -He doesn't want his #1 center playing that role full time to support Laine.

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere else but in this graph.

WPG 1819 Laine Replacements

Virtually everyone plays better away from Laine so far this year. He needs to start engaging more. It blows my mind that a 64' goalscorer is so timid on the ice. Use that size dude.

 

[LowLefty]

Petan has driven the play this year pretty well. He has also been good at zone exits and entries. I think you are underestimating him a bit in this regard. It isn't shocking that the fourth line has performed better from a shot metrics performance with him then without. If that isn't driving the play I don't know what is.

Has he driven play well enough to take Laine to another level?
Highly doubtful regardless of how much you think Petan brings to the Jets.

 

[Jets 31]

Jets forward skates hard into opposition's zone carrying the puck and stops halfway down the wall and turns and passes the puck back to one of our defenseman at the point , way too much . The forwards need to carry the puck to or around the net alot more , at the very least they have a chance of a penalty because the defenseman can't keep up and they get tripped or whatever . Passing it back to the point is good to do but not all the frigging time , the Jets are pretty predictable right now .

 

[Daximus]

Has he driven play well enough to take Laine to another level?
Highly doubtful regardless of how much you think Petan brings to the Jets.

Petan just doesn't have the defensive and wall game to support Laine. Scheif is pretty much the only center capable of doing so but like I've said before I feel we become a bit of a one line team if we do that. I'm not sure how good Wheeler can be away from Scheif. If the skid of not scoring much continues I'm sure we won't have any other choice but to try it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Thing is, listening to Paul after the games, you get the impression he isn't that concerned and none of this will happen.
Maybe there is a level of concern and it's being addressed behind doors - hope so.

That level of concern must be rising in the background as this goes on. Without that Brossoit shutout we would be 2&5 instead of 3&4. Only one game but a big difference in winning % over a small number of games. We scored 4 against a bad Oilers team and we got 5 against SJS when their goalie was weak (24 shots for those 5 goals). The other 5 games we scored only 1 or 0. How can any coach not notice that and be concerned?

 

[Daximus]

Jets forward skates hard into opposition's zone carrying the puck and stops halfway down the wall and turns and passes the puck back to one of our defenseman at the point , way too much . The forwards need to carry the puck to or around the net alot more , at the very least they have a chance of a penalty because the defenseman can't keep up and they get tripped or whatever . Passing it back to the point is good to do but not all the frigging time , the Jets are pretty predictable right now .

I also feel Wheeler needs to take over more rather than deferring to Scheif when he gains the zone. It's so damn predictable that when Wheeler gains the zone he will either throw a muffin shot from the perimeter into the goalies chest or miss completely or he'll look for Scheif. He used to drive the net with authority, we need more of that.

 

[Jets 31]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere else but in this graph.

WPG 1819 Laine Replacements

Virtually everyone plays better away from Laine so far this year. He needs to start engaging more. It blows my mind that a 64' goalscorer is so timid on the ice. Use that size dude.

Still say that hit in Buffalo made him change his game somewhat , hence his looking timid .

 

[bustamente]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere else but in this graph.

WPG 1819 Laine Replacements

Virtually everyone plays better away from Laine so far this year. He needs to start engaging more. It blows my mind that a 64' goalscorer is so timid on the ice. Use that size dude.

Not using his size is a between the ears problem, either he doesn't feel he needs to or is afraid to, think he feels he is a finesse player with a shot that doesn't need to get into the dirty area's

 

[Daximus]

Still say that hit in Buffalo made him change his game somewhat , hence his looking timid .

It might have but he looked to be very engaged in the pre-season. He needs to stop being afraid of contact and just take over games. He's useless 5v5 if he doesn't.

Not using his size is a between the ears problem, either he doesn't feel he needs to or is afraid to, think he feels he is a finesse player with a shot that doesn't need to get into the dirty area's

I'm not sure but if I'm the coach I'm telling him to cut out the fly by's where he waves his stick and lay a punishing check every single time. Get on the body, use your size. Because you don't have the skill or finesse to beat players on the boards or in the corners. Get angry and punish guys for wanting your puck. He plays like a kitten lately.

 

[LowLefty]

Petan just doesn't have the defensive and wall game to support Laine. Scheif is pretty much the only center capable of doing so but like I've said before I feel we become a bit of a one line team if we do that. I'm not sure how good Wheeler can be away from Scheif. If the skid of not scoring much continues I'm sure we won't have any other choice but to try it.

Agree with this and I'm not against a Scheif / Laine reunion - as a spark.
But I don't think it is something Maurice or Scheif want to do long term.