Currently the best & worst rebuilds ongoing

[Over the volcano]

The center you brought in, Lindholm, isn't quite as old as the centers that retired, Krejci and Bergeron. Not really a planned rebuild at all. Seems like Boston is just trying to run out the core again.

Of the 37 players who saw the ice for them just two years ago, 29 are gone and only 8 remain. Only 6 if you go back three years.

Guess it comes down to what gets counted as a "rebuild".

 

[Frank Drebin]

Habs would be looking excellent had they taken Tkachuk, Michkov, Oettinger. Now that may have changed their positions but if it hadn’t, they’d be looking good with Tkachuk, Suzuki, Caufield, Michkov, Slaf, Laine. Plus other prospects

Tkachuk and Michkov are looking like huge misses but you can't win them all. Leafs would look better with Oettinger or Robertson over Lilly too.

I'm not sold on the Habs rebuild. I think they've sold off all that they can and I'm just not sure they have enough high end talent to ice a contender for the next decade. Need to get lucky and have a couple players emerge as elite top line forwards/top pairing d for that to happen.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Of the 37 players who saw the ice for them just two years ago, 29 are gone and only 8 remain. Only 6 if you go back three years.

Guess it comes down to what gets counted as a "rebuild".

They've also been getting worse each year over those 3 years, and have no where near the young talent of any other team mentioned in this thread. Do they really belong in a thread with teams like SJS, CHI, MTL, ANA, DET, etc.?

 

[Over the volcano]

They've also been getting worse each year over those 3 years, and have no where near the young talent of any other team mentioned in this thread. Do they really belong in a thread with teams like SJS, CHI, MTL, ANA, DET, etc.?

I mean those clubs are performing worse so. . . . I mean how are you grading the quality of a rebuild if it's not on the team's actual performance?

If you need multiple seasons with shitty results and high draft picks then Boston doesn't qualify. But if we're talking about a rebuild in which the club performs well while turning over its roster then they have to be in the conversation.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I mean those clubs are performing worse so. . . . I mean how are you grading the quality of a rebuild if it's not on the team's actual performance?

If you need multiple seasons with shitty results and high draft picks then Boston doesn't qualify. But if we're talking about a rebuild in which the club performs well while turning over its roster then they have to be in the conversation.

They are performing worse, but you can't really question they've all accumulated a ton of young stars, high draft picks, cap space, etc. to set them up for long term competitiveness.

Boston is still relying on the same core guys as they were 3 years ago. They're only younger because they replaced 30 year olds with some mid-20 depth players. That's not really a rebuild.

After Joe Thornton retired a few years ago the Sharks got younger too, it sure didn't help the rebuild, but it did lower their average age.

 

[Oneiro]

1st overall
1st overall
2nd overall
4th overall
etc

Devils win

I get this perspective, especially coming from a truly snakebitten DET fanbase, but this viewpoint also discounts a lot of other great decisions that separate the NJ rebuild from the others. I think compared to OTT especially, the following is what made the difference:

First among them, being very conservative with the cap until the team was ready to make the jump. They only signed small 1-2 year deals for guys like Boyle, Lovejoy, etc. as stopgaps. They could've made a lot of stupid decisions i.e. extending Palmieri, Coleman, Hall, Henrique, etc. to poor value deals and instead turned those guys into draft/trade capital while Hischier, Bratt and Hughes improved.

And then the other major win was snagging Bratt in the 6th. That is one of the most elite, best 6th round picks ever made.

Then jumping on Siegenthaler and Kovacevic when few (really only analytics people) saw potential.

Also turning Mukhamadullin, Zetterlund+ into Meier, turning Holtz into Cotter, Bahl+ into Markstrom. In general, the only early round picks they've f***ed up were Holtz and Stillman.

And I think you can view the Hamilton deal as the equivalent of Chicago bringing in Brian Campbell before their runs.

Save for goalie, the timing of all the UFA/trade adds was more or less ideal. Now they have the right coach and it's all coming together.

So yes, luck is a major major part of it but so much could've gone wrong and they avoided most of it (the Palat deal is hard to defend, Subban trade was a mistake, Gusev/Johnsson deals I'd still do in context but amounted to nothing and chiefly, they should've addressed the goaltending faster).

 

[BillDineen]

The Flyers "rebuild".

Let's say there are 3 ways to rebuild:

1- tank, seek bottom 5 picks by gutting your team.
2- aggressive on trade front when young players are available, be attractive to free agents (Vegas, Rags)
3- cumulate players that exceed their draft position (Jets, Bruins)

Flyers focus on two outliers in the cap error: not be like Buffalo and hope to mimic St Louis

1 is out, they will not tank completely. 2 is where they hope to be free agent wise and believe to compete with the Rags or the tax-friendly state teams they need a culture and 3 they have (over) confidence in their scouting group.

MM obviously looks to exceed 7OA,

They purposely took on dead cap space for assets and then plan to spend in two summers.

Positive:
- Brad Shaw is doing a great job with defensemen
- Draft wise they seem to be able to identify goalies

Flaws:
- Reaching for Luchenko over Buium because they need centers and Buium would be another "small" dman when they have York and Andrae who they like.
- Development wise, they will reward defense only forwards, but have zero patience with offense only forwards. Exception is MM, but it took forever for them to leave TK alone
- Like defensive centers with speed even if they don't provide offense. Think modern offense is driven by wings.
- No path to get a 1C out of sheer luck (lottery, another Giroux draft pick)

Goal: Have size on the d (outside or York and Andrae), attract a big name FA or players available within 2 years, somehow get a key center out of this year's first or next year's or with the 2 late and 3 early 2nd this year to move up or trade, and have culture and a great coach (in their eyes) to motivate the team to contend faster than most would guess and go on a run with good goaltending.

Likely outcome: Middle of the pack team with MM taking the role of Giroux in the 2010s. No cup.

 

[raymond23]

I get this perspective, especially coming from a truly snakebitten DET fanbase, but this viewpoint also discounts a lot of other great decisions that separate the NJ rebuild from the others. I think compared to OTT especially, the following is what made the difference:

First among them, being very conservative with the cap until the team was ready to make the jump. They only signed small 1-2 year deals for guys like Boyle, Lovejoy, etc. as stopgaps. They could've made a lot of stupid decisions i.e. extending Palmieri, Coleman, Hall, Henrique, etc. to poor value deals and instead turned those guys into draft/trade capital while Hischier, Bratt and Hughes improved.

And then the other major win was snagging Bratt in the 6th. That is one of the most elite, best 6th round picks ever made.

Then jumping on Siegenthaler and Kovacevic when few (really only analytics people) saw potential.

Also turning Mukhamadullin, Zetterlund+ into Meier, turning Holtz into Cotter, Bahl+ into Markstrom. In general, the only early round picks they've f***ed up were Holtz and Stillman.

And I think you can view the Hamilton deal as the equivalent of Chicago bringing in Brian Campbell before their runs.

Save for goalie, the timing of all the UFA/trade adds was more or less ideal. Now they have the right coach and it's all coming together.

So yes, luck is a major major part of it but so much could've gone wrong and they avoided most of it (the Palat deal is hard to defend, Subban trade was a mistake, Gusev/Johnsson deals I'd still do in context but amounted to nothing and chiefly, they should've addressed the goaltending faster).

Those are nice things

Still don’t understand how it compares to Ottawa either, who didn’t get two franchise centers at 1st overall lol

 

[Voight]

Sens, Sabres, Red Wings, Ducks, Blue Jackets and Blackhawks have all been mired in years of rebuilding and re-setting without landing on a playoff worthy, let alone cup contending core.

Utah, now that they have the ability to keep their assets, the Sharks and the Habs look to be on good trajectories to ice a contender around their respective U25 cores over the next 3-5 years. If they achieve that, those would be pretty successful rebuild timelines

Blackhawks did commit to a rebuild until early 2023. This year is only year two of a full tank.

Pegulas: “Well his rebuild failed so let’s fire Botteril, Alright Kevin time for you to rebuild the rebuild. Well the rebuilt rebuild failed so let’s fire Kevin and hire someone new to rebuild the rebuilt rebuild. “

Adams is a yes man and should've never bene hired with the small amount of experience he had.

 

[TheBeerNerd]

I get this perspective, especially coming from a truly snakebitten DET fanbase, but this viewpoint also discounts a lot of other great decisions that separate the NJ rebuild from the others. I think compared to OTT especially, the following is what made the difference:

First among them, being very conservative with the cap until the team was ready to make the jump. They only signed small 1-2 year deals for guys like Boyle, Lovejoy, etc. as stopgaps. They could've made a lot of stupid decisions i.e. extending Palmieri, Coleman, Hall, Henrique, etc. to poor value deals and instead turned those guys into draft/trade capital while Hischier, Bratt and Hughes improved.

And then the other major win was snagging Bratt in the 6th. That is one of the most elite, best 6th round picks ever made.

Then jumping on Siegenthaler and Kovacevic when few (really only analytics people) saw potential.

Also turning Mukhamadullin, Zetterlund+ into Meier, turning Holtz into Cotter, Bahl+ into Markstrom. In general, the only early round picks they've f***ed up were Holtz and Stillman.

And I think you can view the Hamilton deal as the equivalent of Chicago bringing in Brian Campbell before their runs.

Save for goalie, the timing of all the UFA/trade adds was more or less ideal. Now they have the right coach and it's all coming together.

So yes, luck is a major major part of it but so much could've gone wrong and they avoided most of it (the Palat deal is hard to defend, Subban trade was a mistake, Gusev/Johnsson deals I'd still do in context but amounted to nothing and chiefly, they should've addressed the goaltending faster).

The Devils are a lesson on just how much needs to go right when you undergo a rebuild. It's harder than ever with 32 teams. I think the first thing a team needs to do when making that decision is: what is your identity going to be? As soon as Fitzgerald got promoted, he made it very clear that the centerpieces were going to be Hischier and Jack Hughes, and the team would be built around them. It's gotten some face lifts since then, especially when it comes to physicality, but that was an important first step.

I think the teams in extended rebuilds have a crisis of identity, especially Detroit, which is a complete mess. I couldn't tell you what the Yzerplan's identity is.

 

[Over the volcano]

They are performing worse, but you can't really question they've all accumulated a ton of young stars, high draft picks, cap space, etc. to set them up for long term competitiveness.

Boston is still relying on the same core guys as they were 3 years ago. They're only younger because they replaced 30 year olds with some mid-20 depth players. That's not really a rebuild.

After Joe Thornton retired a few years ago the Sharks got younger too, it sure didn't help the rebuild, but it did lower their average age.

I mean I get it. If you think a team needs high picks to rebuild then they're not in the conversation. But if a rebuild means rebuilding the team and performing well then they certainly are.

 

[Over the volcano]

The Devils are a lesson on just how much needs to go right when you undergo a rebuild. It's harder than ever with 32 teams. I think the first thing a team needs to do when making that decision is: what is your identity going to be? As soon as Fitzgerald got promoted, he made it very clear that the centerpieces were going to be Hischier and Jack Hughes, and the team would be built around them. It's gotten some face lifts since then, especially when it comes to physicality, but that was an important first step.

I think the teams in extended rebuilds have a crisis of identity, especially Detroit, which is a complete mess. I couldn't tell you what the Yzerplan's identity is.

For sure. It's real tough for a roster's culture to overcome a few seasons of total failure.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Tkachuk and Michkov are looking like huge misses but you can't win them all. Leafs would look better with Oettinger or Robertson over Lilly too.

I'm not sold on the Habs rebuild. I think they've sold off all that they can and I'm just not sure they have enough high end talent to ice a contender for the next decade. Need to get lucky and have a couple players emerge as elite top line forwards/top pairing d for that to happen.

Defintely all teams miss. I wouldn't question Oettinger at all, that's crapshoot. Different story on Tkachuk and Michkov. Those are more "what the hell are you thinking"?

Luckily it looks like they may have overachieved on Demidov.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

If they picked Tkachuk and still traded for Suzuki, they probably draft a bit higher and don't get to pick Caufield, Slafkovsky or Michkov.

Truth is, most team miss on draft picks, even in the top 10.

Reinbacher remains a wild card for us. It could change the outcome of our rebuild. Just like next year selection (need top2 D or top6 C). Same for Kirby Dach. If he can handle top 6 C, the rebuild will be ok.

We still need a top G too. Fowler can be that guy, but he's young. Most goalie don't peak until 27-28.

I think Demidov is our Joker. I believe he can have game breaking talent. Similar to Kaprizov.

Entirely possible it would have shifted their picks (hence my second sentence). That said, the team that actually landed Tkachuk went on to finish 31, 30, 23, 26, 21, 26th, so who knows?

 

[BB79]

The Sabres are rebuilding the rebuilding of the previous 2 rebuilds. Hope they make the playoffs this season. The Atlantic has been pretty terrible as a whole. Now is the time