Crosby vs Ovechkin

[VainGretzky]

Do you think Crosby would’ve scored at LEAST 6 points during his games missed?

Do tou think Crosby would've won 4 more trophies in a 100 games , why do people think you should get credit for injuries , Ovie playing a healthy career says a lot , same with Gretzky

 

[Laineux]

Do you think Crosby would’ve scored at LEAST 6 points during his games missed?

If he had, you don't know what else will happen during his career.

Maybe he does win one extra Art Ross, but doesn't win any Conn Smythes and is viewed as an inferior player due to that.

 

[Fantomas]

If I had to rank them I'd go with Crosby by a smidgeon. He has been more consistently reliable and well-rounded in his career, injuries aside.

Ovechkin has made it really close with his playoff performance. And their complete stories have not yet been written.

He also has a good argument to be ranked above Crosby, largely due to his hardware and regular season resume, namely the fact that his two (arguably three) best regular seasons top Crosby's.

 

[tomi2]

Sid is and was better. Though Ovi is still great. It's as simple as that.

 

[Dominance]

I am sorry if my logic is reality based on factual concrete undisputable evidence of accomplishments instead of pro rated hypotheticals . Hard to be a realist these days

Hahaha, great reply! Seriously, I’m not being facetious. Sadly, I cannot provide you any proof that Crosby will ever score another point.

 

[VainGretzky]

Hahaha, great reply! Seriously, I’m not being facetious. Sadly, I cannot provide you any proof that Crosby will ever score another point.

Penguin fans were unable to make me change my mind as much as they tried in this thread starting with post 131 , and they wont change my mind in here either
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...ack-into-cup-favorite-position.2450535/page-3

 

[Bonesy9]

There are many things that show clearly Ovechkin > Crosby

- Ovechkin has a better peak. Even if we take the best full seasons by Crosby (06/07, 13/14, and 09/10), Ovechkin in 07-10 has a bit higher ppg, the same point lead over the field, and way more goals. If we define peak as three best consecutive years, to underscore the importance of maintaining the peak level of play, it is not close at all, as we will be pitching Crosby's 2012-2015 vs. Ovechkin's 2007-2010.

- Ovechkin had better prime too. Even if we look at their 7 or 9 most productive seasons, the ppg is really close, and Ovechkin's goal-scoring and the fact that he is a goal-scoring winger (and thus will not touch the puck as much and will not get garbage assits from cycling the puck) tip the scales in his favor.

- Ovechkin is more significant historically. His seven-goalscoring titles will not be surpassed for a long time and the same is true about his 7x 50-goal seasons and 9x 45 goal seasons unless they make the nets bigger or smth. We will not have an Ovechkin-caliber goal-scorer probably for decades, and we already have a better Crosby in McDavid.

- On a smaller note, Ovechkin defines LW position (together with Bobby Hull). It is just impossible to tell the history of hockey without Ovechkin. Crosby, on the other hand? How often do you hear about Mikita and his 4 Art Rosses? Now compare that with 7 goal-scoring titles by Bobby Hull or the first 50-in-50 by Richard.

- Ovechkin compares well with Richard; with a couple 40-goal seasons more, let alone another goal-scoring title, he will have Richard beat at Richard's strongest suite (goal-scoring) and will leap-frog him in all-time rankings, and Richard is everyone's top10 ever. Crosby, on the other hand, is hardly better than Mikita, since Mikita was so much better in regular season that Crosby's Cups and Smythes cannot overcome that, and nobody has Mikita in top10 ever.

Have you ever compared McDavids first 3 years in the NHL point wise to Crosby's?

McDavid: 209 gp - 87 G - 159 A - 256 Points
Crosby: 213 gp - 99G - 195A - 294 Points

Explain to me how McDavid is better than Crosby was at that point in their careers.

When Crosby and Ovechkin retire, Crosby will have passed him in points, lead the league in assists during his playing time and be 2nd in goals.

Sure Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer, possibly ever, but that does not mean he is better than Crosby.

 

[KJoe88]

Yea real impressive Ovi. Scored 6 more points than Sid in over a hundred more games while also playing with better linemates throughout his career. Has less cups, less smythes. What’s next, Backstrom had a better career than Malkin?

Crosby has more cups because he simply had better teams.

I said this in another thread. Replace Crosby and OV in their respective teams and see how many cups Crosby would have notched up then.

 

[shello]

I feel this should be revisited once they both retire

 

[terrible dee]

Here's the thing....You can't compare them,

A center will ALWAYS be more important to a teams success than a winger

That's why Ovy never "willed" the team to a cup before, in the grand scheme of things wingers don't affect the game NEARLY as much, its just not what they do,

A center is like the engine of a car, unless its good, no other part matters, A winger is like, I don't know, a really great set of tires?

A center controls all aspects of his team's identity, the play flows through him, his ability to be creative and make plays happen at both ends of the rink (remember, he's the third D-man in the slot) is everything to a team,

A great winger, even the best, take Ovie for example, his main job was just to finish off plays, scoring is important but so many things need to happen before Ovie got that pass for the shot.

That's why I'm not as impressed with The Canucks "up and comers" as others, Boesser is a winger who finishes of plays, Peterson will NEVER play center in the NHL, he's a right wing in the SEL, there's no way you get to play the hardest most demanding position if you weren't used there in a lesser league.

A GM I can't recall, recently said, If I want to know if your team is any good I just look at your top two centers and I'll know.

Also why I'm underwhelmed by the draft this year, not a lot of center action

So yeah, to answer the question, Sid's job is waay more important than Ovie's, so its hard to compare

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

Crosby has more cups because he simply had better teams.

I said this in another thread. Replace Crosby and OV in their respective teams and see how many cups Crosby would have notched up then.

Lol the Caps won b2b president trophies. But ya bad team...

 

[Connor McConnor]

If you look at there Careers, can one really say that Crosby has outperformed Ovechkin thus far? IMO, Ovechkin's 07-08' season was better than any of Crosby's seasons.

Oh, and, injuries play a big factor, the player who is less injured (IMO) and more durable should make that player advantageous to have.

Now, both their individual performances are on par together.
Can you really say that Crosby has had the better career than Ovechkin?
Hockey is a 20-man-game, Ovechkin finally won this year, but, the previous years he had no help from his team-mates.

This year, when OV's teammates finally decided to show up ---- the caps looked just as dangerous as the Pens ever did.

Remember, Crosby had superstars on his teams when he won the cup. It's not Ovechkin's fault that his teammates didn't show up.

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Neal, Hornquvist, Kunitz, Letang, Gonchar, Guentzel, etc.

Crosby's team was always loaded in the Playoffs. Meanwhile, OV's team never showed up.

So, can you make a justified argument, without using cups as a factor (since Hockey is a 20 man sport), about who is better?

You can add Staal, Recchi, Hossa, and Iginla among others as other key big name performers Crosby has had in the playoffs via FA or trades.

 

[terrible dee]

Have you ever compared McDavids first 3 years in the NHL point wise to Crosby's?

McDavid: 209 gp - 87 G - 159 A - 256 Points
Crosby: 213 gp - 99G - 195A - 294 Points

Explain to me how McDavid is better than Crosby was at that point in their careers.

When Crosby and Ovechkin retire, Crosby will have passed him in points, lead the league in assists during his playing time and be 2nd in goals.

Sure Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer, possibly ever, but that does not mean he is better than Crosby.

Its not even about points

Crosby is an all-time great at WINNING, he can will his team onto victory, and is a master at center ice

Mc David, and I don't think he gets enough flack for this, did nothing but shrug his shoulders as his team went down the tubes, the only time he started playing with passion is when he publically admitted he was playing for the Art Ross, THEN he started trying...

...WTF was that??

So far, Mc David hasn't proved himself worthy of carrying Sid's jock strap

 

[StoneHands]

Have you ever compared McDavids first 3 years in the NHL point wise to Crosby's?

McDavid: 209 gp - 87 G - 159 A - 256 Points
Crosby: 213 gp - 99G - 195A - 294 Points

Explain to me how McDavid is better than Crosby was at that point in their careers.

When Crosby and Ovechkin retire, Crosby will have passed him in points, lead the league in assists during his playing time and be 2nd in goals.

Sure Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer, possibly ever, but that does not mean he is better than Crosby.

Crosby also came into the NHL directly after the lockout when scoring was higher.

Crosby reached 100 points in 2 of his first 3 seasons. The 100 point plateau was reached 14 times by 11 different players in those 2 seasons.

McDavid has reached 100 points 2 times in his first 3 seasons. The 100 point plateau was reached 4 times by 3 different players in those 2 seasons.

A better way to compare is to see how good they were relative to their peers.

Crosby:
2006: 6th in points (23 behind Art Ross winner)
2007: Won Art Ross by 6 points
2008: 2nd in PPG (Missed 29 games)

McDavid
2016: 3rd in PPG (missed 37 games)
2017: Won Art Ross by 11 points (over Crosby)
2018: Won Art Ross by 6 points

 

[KJoe88]

Lol the Caps won b2b president trophies. But ya bad team...

But they weren’t built for the playoffs.

There’s a difference

 

[Jbcraig1883]

I'm glad Ovechkin finally won a cup. It was long overdue.

But let's not pretend one cup suddenly makes them equals.

And here's the simplest and most powerful argument for it.

What do actual NHL players think?

Best player in the NHL?

A:
Sidney Crosby 70%
Alex Ovechkin 0%

Most overrated player in the NHL?

A:
Alex Ovechkin 2nd 8%
Sidney Crosby 0%

That's according to actual NHL players that play against both of them.

Hockey is a 200 foot game. Scoring goals and blasting one timers is exciting but it's not "hockey", it's part of hockey.

What I was most impressed with about OV this year is that he actually played some semblance of defense. I've seen tons of games against my Pens and he never saw his own goalie, let alone blocked a shot or attempted anything that would resemble defense.

The fact that he played closer to a 200 foot game is a testament to why they finally won.

In 10 years both these guys will be retired and we'll be talking about how great it was to watch both of them.

I agree with this. Ovechkin is a hell of a talent and one of the most entertaining offensive powerhouses I have seen...but after watching a lot of them the past 10 years, will go with opinions of his peers, playing center over wing, championships, gold medal game-winner, etc. Congrats to Ovi but still gap to catch Crosby.

 

[Turin]

Great players, try hard, love the game.

Left handed center happens to be better at hockey, but it’s been a treat both ways.

 

[Jbcraig1883]

There are many things that show clearly Ovechkin > Crosby

- Ovechkin has a better peak. Even if we take the best full seasons by Crosby (06/07, 13/14, and 09/10), Ovechkin in 07-10 has a bit higher ppg, the same point lead over the field, and way more goals. If we define peak as three best consecutive years, to underscore the importance of maintaining the peak level of play, it is not close at all, as we will be pitching Crosby's 2012-2015 vs. Ovechkin's 2007-2010.

- Ovechkin had better prime too. Even if we look at their 7 or 9 most productive seasons, the ppg is really close, and Ovechkin's goal-scoring and the fact that he is a goal-scoring winger (and thus will not touch the puck as much and will not get garbage assits from cycling the puck) tip the scales in his favor.

- Ovechkin is more significant historically. His seven-goalscoring titles will not be surpassed for a long time and the same is true about his 7x 50-goal seasons and 9x 45 goal seasons unless they make the nets bigger or smth. We will not have an Ovechkin-caliber goal-scorer probably for decades, and we already have a better Crosby in McDavid.

- On a smaller note, Ovechkin defines LW position (together with Bobby Hull). It is just impossible to tell the history of hockey without Ovechkin. Crosby, on the other hand? How often do you hear about Mikita and his 4 Art Rosses? Now compare that with 7 goal-scoring titles by Bobby Hull or the first 50-in-50 by Richard.

- Ovechkin compares well with Richard; with a couple 40-goal seasons more, let alone another goal-scoring title, he will have Richard beat at Richard's strongest suite (goal-scoring) and will leap-frog him in all-time rankings, and Richard is everyone's top10 ever. Crosby, on the other hand, is hardly better than Mikita, since Mikita was so much better in regular season that Crosby's Cups and Smythes cannot overcome that, and nobody has Mikita in top10 ever.

Do you think that current players, former players, and current management would pick Ovechkin over Crosby for their franchise? Purely hypothetical since we have mostly anecdotal evidence (although the players have generally picked Crosby as the best player when surveyed) but curious if you think Ovechkin would be chosen easily over Crosby by GMs. If he clearly had the better peak, prime, is more significant historically, which, in your words clearly show Ovechkin>Crosby, then you'd have to conclude that it would be a no-brainer to select Ovi over Crosby, right?

 

[nowhereman]

Let's not kid ourselves here... Crosby is and has been a better player than Ovechkin. There was a 2-3 year period where there was an argument to be made for OV but, overall, Crosby is the superior player and has had the superior career. If you polled the NHL's GMs on who they would rather build their team around, I'd be surprised to see more than a handful go with OV.

OV is a top 15-20 player of all time, when all is said and done, but Sid will be top 10, bordering on top 5.

 

[JustTheDad]

Tough comparison, but I'd take Ovechkin. I think he's as good at his position as Crosby is at his, and he can hit. The stats you all compare are important, but how many turn overs, how much hesitation, how much fatigue has Ovechkin's ability to hit caused other teams over the past 13 years.

I also think a 33 y/o Ovechkin can outlast a 31 y/o Crosby despite Crosby's 613 hits to Ovechkins 2261. Hits matter. It's part of hockey. Scott Stevens was great, but would he have been as intimidating to play against if he didn't hit like a truck. Martin St. Louis, who I think was one of the most talented I've ever watched, might have been the greatest ever if he'd been 6'2" and 225lbs and scarier. I don't know, but I do know if you were to compare St Louis to Ovechkin, you'd take size and hitting into consideration.

Why don't you do that with Crosby too? Because he's concussion prone so it seems less fair?

 

[hairylikebear]

Sid vs Ovi is a poor man’s Gretzky vs Lemieux. There’s a legit argument that Ovi is better but the majority opinion will always favor Sid.

Ovi didn’t need a Cup and Conn Smythe to be in that discussion but it helps.

 

[robertmac43]

My question is how many Cups has Crosby won in the 31 team era?

 

[Jarey Curry]

If you look at there Careers, can one really say that Crosby has outperformed Ovechkin thus far? IMO, Ovechkin's 07-08' season was better than any of Crosby's seasons.

Oh, and, injuries play a big factor, the player who is less injured (IMO) and more durable should make that player advantageous to have.

Now, both their individual performances are on par together.
Can you really say that Crosby has had the better career than Ovechkin?
Hockey is a 20-man-game, Ovechkin finally won this year, but, the previous years he had no help from his team-mates.

This year, when OV's teammates finally decided to show up ---- the caps looked just as dangerous as the Pens ever did.

Remember, Crosby had superstars on his teams when he won the cup. It's not Ovechkin's fault that his teammates didn't show up.

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Neal, Hornquvist, Kunitz, Letang, Gonchar, Guentzel, etc.

Crosby's team was always loaded in the Playoffs. Meanwhile, OV's team never showed up.

So, can you make a justified argument, without using cups as a factor (since Hockey is a 20 man sport), about who is better?

I dont know which Crosby you mean but if its Sidney Crosby you mean this was a very cute post but not much else. And talking about the stars, wsh has just these little players called Holtby, Oshie, Backstrom and Kuznetsov who just happened to beat these big star studs Malkin, Kessel, Letang, Crosby.

 

[Jarey Curry]

And why is that when talking about Crosby vs Ovechkin, we never praise how much defensive responsibilities Crosby has over Ovechkin? I bet the percentage of o-zone time Ovechkin has played in his career is far higher than Crosbys who happens to be a center, the worlds best at that.

 

[Star67]

It's Crosby and it isn't really close. A better argument would be Malkin vs Ovi.