Crosby and his future with the Penguins

[Winger for Hire]

Never said sign him, just asked the consensus. It was a unanimous NO, though frankly, he ain't any worse than most of the guys on this team. What's you're point?

Then you have no idea how bad TK has been/is and how good the rest of the bottom six are playing. He's not any better than Cullen, Fehr, Plots, Sprong, Rust, or, sadly, Kuntiz and Duper.

So you don't have any room to call people out for terrible posts or tell to them to stick to lurking.

Back to the Sid contract topic... since signing the contract, he's been pretty good in terms of concussion health. So I don't see why that's an issue. And having the best current PPG player locked up to the 6th highest cap (and falling) hit shouldn't be something to complain about as far as term and cap hit goes.

The team could be built just fine with Sid and Geno's cap hit if the organization wouldn't be so enamored with over-the-hill vets on stupid contracts.

 

[Til the End of Time]

i have to wonder what the folks in the crosby camp are thinking. by several media accounts, his camp was pretty upset with the pens and the team doctors (understandable, though not true from what i've been told) and wanted the old medical staff replaced. there has always been this narrative since he was drafted that sid's camp is somewhat meddling. from what i've heard that's not even remotely true, but it still makes me wonder what troy and brisson are thinking.

ot but i just googled pat brisson. he's pretty handsome.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I think it's a bit pathetic that with all of the issues this team has, we're going to skip through the commonsense, easiest to fix issues first (like firing the coaching staff--minus Bales, and making a trade for a 1st/2nd pairing defenseman), and we're going to jump right to trading Crosby.

Alrighty. I mean, I understand where the pessimism comes from. Hell, I'm likely one of the most pessimistic people on these boards, but c'mon. If you're advocating trading Crosby and/or Malkin, you're an idiot. Sorry, there's no way to sugarcoat it.

 

[zero8771]

i have to wonder what the folks in the crosby camp are thinking. by several media accounts, his camp was pretty upset with the pens and the team doctors (understandable, though not true from what i've been told) and wanted the old medical staff replaced. there has always been this narrative since he was drafted that sid's camp is somewhat meddling. from what i've heard that's not even remotely true, but it still makes me wonder what troy and brisson are thinking.

ot but i just googled pat brisson. he's pretty handsome.

I'm sure dealing with any high profile player, even one as (seemingly) selfless and accomadating as Sid, is very difficult. Players like that just make the people around them act differently, even if they don't insist that it happen. You see it with players on his line, you see it with the way the media pokes and prods, and you can be damn sure when sensitive business matters happen they act differently too.

Fact of the matter is that when evaluating a player like Sid, if he has a bad year, you try new things/a new coach or 2 before you even entertain getting rid of him. They haven't done that, they certainly will do that first. If the next guy doesnt spark Sid's game and it's been another season or so.... then who knows. Until then I'm confident he'll be here.

For all the "big problems" the Pens have, I strongly believe a good coach and good asset management for 2 seasons and Mario selling the team could have us singing a different tune in 24 months. Executing that will be hard, but the cards are there to be played

 

[MrWilson*]

Then you have no idea how bad TK has been/is and how good the rest of the bottom six are playing. He's not any better than Cullen, Fehr, Plots, Sprong, Rust, or, sadly, Kuntiz and Duper.

So you don't have any room to call people out for terrible posts or tell to them to stick to lurking.

Back to the Sid contract topic... since signing the contract, he's been pretty good in terms of concussion health. So I don't see why that's an issue. And having the best current PPG player locked up to the 6th highest cap (and falling) hit shouldn't be something to complain about as far as term and cap hit goes.

The team could be built just fine with Sid and Geno's cap hit if the organization wouldn't be so enamored with over-the-hill vets on stupid contracts.

UM, I wasn't doing the calling out. Others were, with insults. Mods warned about that kinda stuff.

And since you've brought it up...Cullen, Fehr, Plots, Sprong, Rust??? Seriously? TK ain't a star by any stretch, but he's not 39 either. Tell me again how many of the rest of those guys have played in, scored in, and won a Stanley Cup? With Sid? TK is 29 and has done all those things. Again, never said he should be signed, just that he's well, been there.

Concussion health? No one knows what that status is. Sid is NOT the same player. Sorry. He's a great player, but he's not the SAME player. In case you're wondering--he's never gonna be again and he's certainly not the greatest player in this league anymore. How long do people seriously think that moniker is going to stick? If he keeps playing like he is, its gonna go away a lot faster.

Thing is, its not surprising. Guy isn't a superhero, just a hockey player. This organization better start operating in reality. Sids clock is ticking.

 

[Asuna]

And since you've brought it up...Cullen, Fehr, Plots, Sprong, Rust??? Seriously? TK ain't a star by any stretch, but he's not 39 either. Tell me again how many of the rest of those guys have played in, scored in, and won a Stanley Cup? With Sid? TK is 29 and has done all those things. Again, never said he should be signed, just that he's well, been there.

What does playing/winning a Stanley Cup with Crosby, 6 years ago, have to do with being any good now?

That line of thinking is exactly why Kunitz/Scuderi/Dupuis are still around, and treated as if they're good players, when they're clearly not.

Kennedy was a nice player for us back then, but there's a reason he's not on a NHL team right now. He's just not good anymore.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Some of these arguments are starting to hurt my head....

 

[FDBluth]

Malkin's comments, whether purposefully directed at Crosby or not, apply to Sid more than anyone. Sid's the captain and should be the leader when it comes to unifying the team and playing the right way. Sid is also the player who appears to be more frustrated and disinterested than anyone.

I don't know if this is something strategic Crosby is doing or not, but either way it's currently killing the team.

 

[Riptide]

Hi guys, I would like to have your opinion regarding Crosby and his situation with the penguins.
Past thursday (I think), the Pens were in Montreal and the commentators of the Habs (Martin McGuire & Dany Dube) were speculated that Crosby shows signs of disinterest. They scrutinize his body language and they have concluded that he is not happy, and they thought he was lazy too (and that would explain his lack of production).
What that were saying too is that with the possible departure of Mario Lemieux, Crosby would have no real interest to continue his career with Pittsburgh. According to them, Crosby is very close to Lemieux.
And another reason of Crosby passionless play, is that Crosby have no "good chemistry" with the management in place (Rutherford/Johnston).

So what do you guys think? I know it's just speculation, but is it possible that a change of scenery is what Crosby wish?

Even if everything you say (or are posting) is true.... you fire the coach and attempt to shake things up with a bigger trade (I'm referring more personal wise within the Pens then the status that players are seen around the league - aka Kunitz, Letang, or basically anyone else not named Sid/Geno).

I honestly think the likelyhood of Crosby being traded is so slim that it isn't really worth much time discussing it.

 

[Riptide]

First thing he needs to do is stop being passive aggressive and speak up if he thinks it's not working in MJ's system. It's not worth continuing on the way we've been playing the last 30 games or so going back to last season.

I know the system has been great for MaF's career, but that could be accomplished with a lot less talent and salary. Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel are being wasted in this system.

How do you know he hasn't? Because he's surely not going to ***** to the media about that - nor should he. I mean really... what would that accomplish?

 

[Riptide]

Completely disagree. Sid being so completely disinterested in winning says everything you need to know about the Pens.

So it's all Crosby's fault that the rest of the team is playing like **** too? LOL.

 

[WayneSid9987]

The Pens are just a totally toxic environment right now.
All caught up in their own little bubble.
Sid scoring 40 points and missing the playoffs will bust that bubble though.
It just depends on what they do after that happens that will determine if Sid wants out of here or not.

Look no further than Team Canada's World Championship entry this past spring. Sid was totally fine in that environment(of which he was a key leader on the roster) and his little habits that infuriate while he's playing for the Pens tend to just fade away in a situation like that. With the Pens, it's one thing after another after another. That can wear on you.

 

[PensandCaps]

The Pens are just a totally toxic environment right now.
All caught up in their own little bubble.
Sid scoring 40 points and missing the playoffs will bust that bubble though.
It just depends on what they do after that happens that will determine if Sid wants out of here or not.

Look no further than Team Canada's World Championship entry this past spring. Sid was totally fine in that environment and his little habits that infuriate while he's playing for the Pens tend to just fade away in a situation like that. With the Pens, it's one thing after another after another. That can wear on you.

i mean they are 10-7 and have won 10 out of the last 14 games, could be worse

 

[WayneSid9987]

i mean they are 10-7 and have won 10 out of the last 14 games, could be worse

You can thank one man for that. Marc Andre Fleury.
Have to look at the deeper numbers.
Things are bad.

 

[PensandCaps]

You can thank one man for that. Marc Andre Fleury.
Have to look at the deeper numbers.
Things are bad.

well fleury is part of the pens? no?
its really not all that bad, the thing that urks me is, i know the pens could be better with small little changes like kunitz and duper on the 4th line and scuds and lovejoy out and DP and clendening in.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The Pens are just a totally toxic environment right now.
All caught up in their own little bubble.
Sid scoring 40 points and missing the playoffs will bust that bubble though.
It just depends on what they do after that happens that will determine if Sid wants out of here or not.

Or they could just change coaches, tweak a few things on the roster, and get back to a system that plays to the strengths of the team.

Seems a little simpler than the doomsday/apocalyptic fantasy scenarios thrown around in this thread.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

This is adversity. He's way too talented and way too young to give up on. Zetterberg is thriving again at 35. Jagr's still going strong at 43.

Crosby will be back with a vengeance. But not under Johnston.

Exactly.

Just fire the ****ing coach. Pardon my enthusiasm, but I am sick and tired of this organization's conservative mindset when it comes to team management, and I am sure Sidney Crosby is too.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We'll see, I guess. Players like Crosby have concerns other than comfort. They have to worry about things like legacy and reputation...even patriotism...in ways that even someone of the stature of a Paul Kariya did not. He's going to have people in his ear...a lot of people, I'd think...that, say, Henrik Zetterberg or Claude Giroux never would, telling him the grass is greener on the other side of the hill, if things remain how they are for a whole season.

If Crosby were to, for example, force a trade to the Habs or Leafs, that would probably be less damaging (perhaps not damaging at all) to his reputation in Canada than if he were to stay in Pittsburgh and stagnate into Dominic Moore in the second half of his career (not that I'm predicting that).

For the record, though, I don't consider a trade request by pretty much anyone for almost any reason to be evidence of low character.

I guess we're just on opposite sides on that one, haha. The team's missed the playoffs once during Crosby's career, he's said he wants to play with one team his whole career and signed a 13 year contract to that end despite some of the team's troubles at the time. He doesn't strike me as the type to turn tail and give up after one bunk personal year. I think that would not only show low character, but be very much out of character for Sid.

It's so unlikely that I don't think the idea's even worth entertaining. It's like KIRK's while "Geno exodus" fixation that lasted half a decade before he signed long-term. God love him.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Honestly, outside of Fleury and maybe Dumo, is anybody playing well right now? Or perhaps more accurately, is anyone playing up to their usual standard? For all the angst about Crosby, Geno has what, a whole 3 more points this season? And spare me the "he looks better" stuff. Outside of a handful of games that's been debatable and who cares anyway? Looking better means **** all if it doesn't translate to production.

What about Hornqvist and his whopping 19 goal pace? Letang looks like complete garbage. Maatta's been disappointing. Kessel's not setting the world on fire. Perron's offense has completely disappeared. Yet somehow this is a Crosby problem. That's not to say that he hasn't had a rough season. He absolutely has. But so has the entire team. It's lazy analysis to just single out one guy. Do people really believe it's just some kind of kooky coincidence that all these guys, all in their 20s and firmly still in their primes, just magically forgot how to produce at the same time? This is bigger than Crosby.

Also, this. Malkin is an amazing driving force and trying his hardest to light a fire under the whole team. It's a issue throughout the line-up. Clearly there is an issue here bigger than Sidney Crosby.

The coaching staff has to go. This team of veterans with massive expectations led by two generational talents does not want to play for Mike Johnston.

 

[Penguinator]

If Crosby wants out then it's not in the Pens interest to trade him since his value is going down. If Crosby wants MJ out then his value should increase with a new coach that uses a system that better exploits our offensive abilities. Thing is, it wouldn't be in the Pens interest to ship him out either if his trade value increases as we probably wouldn't get enough in return.

Either way, Crosby stays & MJ HAS TO BE FIRED for both the team & org's interest imo.

Add the counter-productive Tocchet to that dumpster & light it up on XMass' eve so those guys can serve a useful purpose. Providing much needed cheap lighting for the poor.

I mean... This thing isn't working is it now? So why wait too much?

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean... This thing isn't working is it now? So why wait too much?

Not having to pay compensation for taking a coach (if they were under contract with another team this year), or lack of good replacements are my guesses.

But honestly, while we all know that Johnson isn't working, who do you replace him with? That's the part I don't know.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

I'm going to be an optimist here and say the decision has already been made internally that Johnston is out and they are currently deciding on their replacement options.

I hope I am not completely off the mark here.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

i mean they are 10-7 and have won 10 out of the last 14 games, could be worse

Like management looking at this information and thinking it's because the coach is doing a good job and not because MAF is playing the best hockey of his life.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm going to be an optimist here and say the decision has already been made internally that Johnston is out and they are currently deciding on their replacement options.

I hope I am not completely off the mark here.

I feel pretty similar, just based on how coaching changes seem to happen here. I mean, the lengths the club went to acquire Kessel et al over the summer hints that this kind of performance is not going to be tolerated.

I still say they're gonna run out the clock on the compensation rule, then decide.

 

[ColePens]

So it's all Crosby's fault that the rest of the team is playing like **** too? LOL.

Yeah that's unfair, but ultimately it lies on 3 people at this point:

1) Coaching: If the team isn't playing up to standards, get them to. Bench players who aren't responding no matter how talented they are. Take ownership of the team. Like we always say - if the coach has the best system in the world but the players don't play it, then it's not the best system in the world.

2) Crosby: Face of the league, team, organization, hockey, etc. He's the leader of so much more than just the Pens. He's not responsible for all the issues, but he's damn sure to be held accountable at a higher standard than any other hockey player in the league. It's the extremely unfortunate part of being the face of all these things. His quotes are still dull and boring and needs to start having urgency towards makign this organization better. At times, it seems like he's just part of the ride. It's time to lead. It's time to be comfortable being uncomfortable in the leadership standpoint. I know it's not like him to speak out, but he needs to start picking the right times to do so.

3) Management: See a problem, fix the problem. Period. The problem is now coming up on one year. I think the roster is very good, minus the overall defense which is VERY easy to fix. You also have tons of cap space if you move the dead weight (Kunitz/Scuds).