Crosby and his future with the Penguins

[Dipsy Doodle]

The problem I have with this is that this board often tries to have it both ways with the "best player in the world" thing. People on here routinely argue that Sid and Geno are equals. Actually, this board tends to lean heavily towards Geno a lot of the time and many argue that Geno is the superior player. The number of "this is Geno's team" or "Geno's the true leader" posts on here is pretty high. And that's fine. But despite arguing that they're equals, nobody seems to hold Geno to that "best in the world" standard. Only Crosby.

So which is it? Are Sid/Geno equals or are we holding Crosby to a higher standard? Can't have it both ways. Besides, Crosby being held to a higher standard doesn't change my point that, when everybody has seen their production fall off a cliff at the same time, the problem clearly goes far beyond any individual player. It may be more alarming in Crosby's case because we're so used to him outpacing the field but it's still just emblematic of a bigger, team-wide problem.

I can't speak for the contrarians on the board. Crosby's the guy, league-wide. But even if that weren't the case, he's also looked a lot worse than Malkin this year.

There's a bigger, team-wide problem to be sure. But Crosby's stunk out loud. And he's my favourite player in the league.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Penguins can't initiate a trade with Crosby. Forget the wisdom of such a move on the ice; in terms of optics, it would be a nightmare. They'd have to spend a year waging a shadow PR war that would probably be countered by Brisson and his allies in the Canadian media before they would even be in a position to suggest a parting of the ways. This sort of messiness is not what you want when you're selling something.

Having said that, if Crosby finishes the season with, like, 45 points and the team either misses the playoffs or gets bounced in the first round, I would not be remotely surprised if his people talk him into requesting a trade over the summer (even though I don't think this will do any good if he were to play the same way with the Habs).

Crosby's been the best player in the league under two coaches and a dud under one, under whom everyone's performance has taken a dip to one degree or other outside of Fleury.

You don't trade Crosby under those circumstances. You can the coach.

Of course, you're only talking about what the org could do, and they're not above making colossally stupid deals.

 

[wgknestrick]

Crosby just isn't a leader or have any qualities that make him a good one.

He is by far the most frustrating penguin to watch since the last of the Jagr years. I just want him gone at this point as he is bringing the entire team and organization down. So much talent and potential wasted underneath that quitting head of his.

Malkin needs to be given the C and Crosby should be healthy scratched for a game. You have to try to get through to him somehow and also show the other players that he isn't above the "team law".

 

[billybudd]

Crosby's been the best player in the league under two coaches and a dud under one, under whom everyone's performance has taken a dip to one degree or other outside of Fleury.

You don't trade Crosby under those circumstances. You can the coach.

Of course, you're only talking about what the org could do, and they're not above making colossally stupid deals.

As I said before, the team initiating the idea that Crosby should go elsewhere is so impractical that it couldn't happen for a large variety of reasons, only one of which I went into. Good idea, bad idea doesn't matter. The Penguins aren't in a position to do this and won't be with the current ownership group.

But if he asks out (and if he has a 40-45 point, non-playoff season, I think there's a decent chance this happens), you have to trade him, whether it's a good idea or not. The Canadian media will not allow an American team to hold a national hero hostage. The PR pressure will be endless, not to mention the locals would turn on him, independent of what the media does. Saw it with Nash, saw it with Lindros, saw it with Jagr.

 

[Zen Arcade]

I'm of the opinion that we're not seeing a true decline, but a valley due to frustration and poor decisions throughout the organization. Pretty much what happened with Ovechkin a few years back, the ship can be righted if people are willing to make tough decisions.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

As I said before, the team initiating the idea that Crosby should go elsewhere is so impractical that it couldn't happen for a large variety of reasons, only one of which I went into. Good idea, bad idea doesn't matter. The Penguins aren't in a position to do this and won't be with the current ownership group.

But if he asks out (and if he has a 40-45 point, non-playoff season, I think there's a decent chance this happens), you have to trade him, whether it's a good idea or not. The Canadian media will not allow an American team to hold a national hero hostage. The PR pressure will be endless, not to mention the locals would turn on him, independent of what the media does. Saw it with Nash, saw it with Lindros, saw it with Jagr.

I think one side initiating a Crosby trade is as improbable as the other. Crosby's gone on record saying how much he values being with one team his whole career, like his idol Yzerman. He's not the type of guy to pull up roots he's put down for 10 years after one terrible season. Unlike the players you mentioned, it's not in his character.

Crosby finishing with 40-45 points is just as improbable as the above scenario, even as ****** as he's been so far this year. We've got a lot of reasons to worry about this team, but Sid asking for a trade isn't one of them.

 

[billybudd]

I think one side initiating a Crosby trade is as improbable as the other. Crosby's gone on record saying how much he values being with one team his whole career, like his idol Yzerman. He's not the type of guy to pull up roots he's put down for 10 years after one terrible season. Unlike the players you mentioned, it's not in his character.

Crosby finishing with 40-45 points is just as improbable as the above scenario, even as ****** as he's been so far this year. We've got a lot of reasons to worry about this team, but Sid asking for a trade isn't one of them.

We'll see, I guess. Players like Crosby have concerns other than comfort. They have to worry about things like legacy and reputation...even patriotism...in ways that even someone of the stature of a Paul Kariya did not. He's going to have people in his ear...a lot of people, I'd think...that, say, Henrik Zetterberg or Claude Giroux never would, telling him the grass is greener on the other side of the hill, if things remain how they are for a whole season.

If Crosby were to, for example, force a trade to the Habs or Leafs, that would probably be less damaging (perhaps not damaging at all) to his reputation in Canada than if he were to stay in Pittsburgh and stagnate into Dominic Moore in the second half of his career (not that I'm predicting that).

For the record, though, I don't consider a trade request by pretty much anyone for almost any reason to be evidence of low character.

 

[PensandCaps]

I think one side initiating a Crosby trade is as improbable as the other. Crosby's gone on record saying how much he values being with one team his whole career, like his idol Yzerman. He's not the type of guy to pull up roots he's put down for 10 years after one terrible season. Unlike the players you mentioned, it's not in his character.

Crosby finishing with 40-45 points is just as improbable as the above scenario, even as ****** as he's been so far this year. We've got a lot of reasons to worry about this team, but Sid asking for a trade isn't one of them.

The way sid is playing, id say 40 points is very probable, him playing bad, duper and kunitz being his linemates and johnston being his coach, 55 points is max he'll get.

 

[NewHabsEra*]

Crosby will never leave Pittsburg as long as the sale isnt completed..

 

[Til the End of Time]

Crosby just isn't a leader or have any qualities that make him a good one.

He is by far the most frustrating penguin to watch since the last of the Jagr years. I just want him gone at this point as he is bringing the entire team and organization down. So much talent and potential wasted underneath that quitting head of his.

Malkin needs to be given the C and Crosby should be healthy scratched for a game. You have to try to get through to him somehow and also show the other players that he isn't above the "team law".

this is crazy talk. up until the latter half of last season, crosby has been the consummate team player. i cant explain his play for the last ~ calendar year, but prior to that the guy was the ultimate competitor.

 

[Til the End of Time]

I'm of the opinion that we're not seeing a true decline, but a valley due to frustration and poor decisions throughout the organization. Pretty much what happened with Ovechkin a few years back, the ship can be righted if people are willing to make tough decisions.

all true, but do you honestly think the penguins are going to make the tough decisions? i cant really think of a single hard call the penguins made since winning the cup in '09.

 

[Zen Arcade]

all true, but do you honestly think the penguins are going to make the tough decisions? i cant really think of a single hard call the penguins made since winning the cup in '09.

I think they'll drag their feet as much as they can and make some superficial changes, but if they end up missing the playoffs, who knows?

 

[FinProspects]

I havent been able to watch that many games this season, but for you that watch games on regular basis: What's wrong?

Is it the same issues as in last year( second half), e.g. lackluster decision making with the puck (constant drop passes after blue line, forced passes in powerplay), scoring touch is long gone, cheats on defense at times, hangs in the perimeter?

Apart from scoring, these all are things that could be related to lack of confidence.. its just that this started last year already.

I'd crave for some information what is really going on here... In the interviews Sid is just his boring self, as usual. "Execution, execution, execution, yadayada".

 

[xIsle]

This is absolute nonsense. You're pretty much making up the bolded since I've never seen a single article, tweet, or post on here that credits Crosby and only Crosby when they win. And Crosby (along with Malkin) have been the whipping boys for the past couple of playoff losses, even though Crosby was actually one of the best players in last season's first round loss.

Hi Sidney the kidney, I would like to have your opinion on Crosby this season (since I notice you on the Isles board).
What's the reason for such a bad start? Lack of 2nd effort? Lack of passion/drive? Bad coaching? Did he became a "perimeter" player?...

 

[Shaftception]

I think they'll drag their feet as much as they can and make some superficial changes, but if they end up missing the playoffs, who knows?

Agreed, which is why I wasn't disappointed at all with the possibility of missing the playoffs over the summer, they could do a lot worse than drafting relatively high for once to restock their assets, and might finally be forced to make drastic changes in organizational philosophy with such a wakeup call.

This season more than likely wasn't going to be their best chance at a cup in the near future anyway. With kessel added to the core, they were going to be set for another five years or so with the hardest positions already locked up. It was just going to take a few years of dumping the bad contracts left over from shero, getting the current youth experience, and stocking up on some higher draft picks than we've had recently to truly be in position to realistically contend again, which theoretically should've still been before the core truly declined.

Now if they panic and trade a crosby or malkin (which logically with their ntc's would be near impossible to return value that would make the team better, yet I wouldn't necessarily be against it if such a miracle occurred) this plan goes out the window, but I'd still hope to see this current roster with a different coach and system first before such a shakeup happens. Whether they're smart enough to do it before it's too late is the question.

 

[Gold Diamond]

Ovechkin was awful under Dale Hunter and Adam Oates.

Get Crosby a coach who is good, and watch him dominate again.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I hope Crosby wants Johnston fired, otherwise we're 100% screwed. If that is the case he should just say so and Johnston would be packing a suitcase 5 minute later and we can all just move past it.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Crosby just isn't a leader or have any qualities that make him a good one.

He is by far the most frustrating penguin to watch since the last of the Jagr years. I just want him gone at this point as he is bringing the entire team and organization down. So much talent and potential wasted underneath that quitting head of his.

Malkin needs to be given the C and Crosby should be healthy scratched for a game. You have to try to get through to him somehow and also show the other players that he isn't above the "team law".

Geno takes more dumb penalties than Sid does.
Sid and Geno aren't problems.
The core has poor leadership qualities cuz they've had player friendly coaches since 2009.
No one has the balls to stand up to the Scuderi's, Kunitz's and Dupuis's let alone the Sid's and Geno's.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Could the "leadership problem" be because this team has never let, or forced, Sid and Geno and MAF and the other core guys actually take over the team as leaders?

They've spent the better part of 10 years bringing in "veteran leadership" in the form of the Recchis, Scuderis, Eatons, Adams, Roberts, etc of the league everytime one of the older guys depart, therefore never forcing the younger guys to actually step up and fill the leadership void.

 

[MrWilson*]

Crosby is going nowhere.

On the ice, during games? You're right.

 

[MrWilson*]

I do more reading than posting on HF

Maybe stick with that?

12-year, $104.4 million contract extension in 2012 after concussions and missing 53% of the games over 3 seasons. I wouldn't have signed him for that much for that long. Sids great, but affording anyone that kind of contract in this league, just doesn't sit well with a "stupid roach" like me.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Maybe stick with that?

Says the guy who started the "Sign TK" thread. Good one.

 

[etm124]

Says the guy who started the "Sign TK" thread. Good one.

 

[MrWilson*]

Never said sign him, just asked the consensus. It was a unanimous NO, though frankly, he ain't any worse than most of the guys on this team. What's you're point?

 

[joeyjake5]

As for a sid/geno trade happening, this will not happen until either one of them tells management Get me out of this HELL Hole. And I am not sure it could happen tomorrow.

Now as for fixing this team, just start by fixing the weakest links. Duper, Kunitz, Joy, and Scuds. Now if the pens don't have replacements(or that management is not willing to replace these duds who have GREAT EXPERINCE but still suck) in W-B then this team has no future. Bring up the replacements NOW, you have nothing to lose.

As for MJ and his staff, all will be gone by the end of the season definitely, Sooner, MAYBE????

JR will be gone unless he has full control of all hockey operations, meaning final say. And I don't think he has.