I was quoting from the SSparent 7:32am post which never mentioned being a USA citizen, like I said just responding to that. If there was a previous post regarding citizenship I missed it.
Cpjhl junior development league
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I was quoting from the SSparent 7:32am post which never mentioned being a USA citizen, like I said just responding to that. If there was a previous post regarding citizenship I missed it.
Qualifying that as an American, I don't know the structure of Hockey Canada.
Parents can chose to play where ever they want, that's their prerogative, but the structure of hockey in Canada seems fairly straight forward.
Hockey Canada controls hockey in Canada by virtue of its size and for no other reason. As happened in 2006 when it engages in anti competitive and monopoly practices it is subject to potential charges and sanctions under the Competitions Act just like any other private organization. If you are an American and familiar with US hockey can you confirm my understanding which is that USA Hockey lost a court challenge and as a result of that court decision there is complete and unrestricted mobility in US hockey
Again, you're missing my point.
I don't really care about outlaw vs. sanctioned, I care about results. If outlaw (or unsanctioned if we need to be PC about it) teams produced players for the next level, I'd be all for it, but to this point all I see are players who haven't had the ability to play at a true Jr A level.
As an example, players on one team (don't want to name them) in the CPJHL played house-league last year, others played A. Its great if they want to continue to play, all the power too them, Im glad they have an outlet, but that's not a recipe for high level hockey, and that's why we haven't seen much other than D3 commitments from North American's playing within these leagues. Lets just be honest about everything and be honest about what becomes of players in 'non hockey Canada sanctioned' leagues.
Secondly, if players have been taken advantage of and not being given refunds when teams folded, that should be a much bigger concern than what a poster on a message board calls the league.
What Hockey Canada is doing is in no way a breach of the Competitions Act. They aren't telling people not to play for an Unsanctioned league, they aren't telling suppliers not to supply another league, what they are stating is if you want to be a member of our organization, you will not participate in or promote another organization.
New leagues can become part of HC, if they follow HC mandates. These 'Outlaw' leagues choose to exist outside the rules.
New leagues can become part of HC, if they follow HC mandates. These 'Outlaw' leagues choose to exist outside the rules.
Suppliers are being told they will be blacklisted if they supply to non HC teams, leagues, or programs it's not only wrong it's ridiculous. As I said in an earlier post the Sharpshooters asked to join HC this year and HEO said no...
Then that supplier needs to make a formal complaint. Locally, the CPJHL team had no issues with suppliers. Recruiting players yes, getting suppliers, ice time, media assistance no problem.
By way of example only my understanding is that refs have been told if they ref our games they will not be allowed to ref any more HEO games.
Refs are trained and licensed under Hockey Canada.
Hockey Canada has paid to create an infrastructure for referees. Of course they wouldn't be allowed to ref in both. If you want to leave Canada, you can't use Canada's money or expect the police to enforce laws. If you leave, you leave their infrastructure too.
Ill say it a third time, players getting screwed by teams folding and not getting fees returned is a bigger issue than anything that's been brought up here.
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The Burks falls bruins will not be icing a team for the 2016-17 season as per the CPJHL Facebook page.
Teams are folding well ahead of where they where with the CIHL.
I always go back to Angelo's quote, saying that checks and balances where put in place to ensure no teams would fold and we shouldn't question things.
Sorry Angelo, but this is why we question things. Hope those kids got a refund as well, but I doubt it.
No Skin in the Game
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- Sep 15, 2015
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Many businesses do not allow employees to work for their competitors, lets not pretend this is unusual.....
The refs are independent contractors not employees. I presume they paid for their clinics and training. Also HC is supposed to be a not for profit given tax exempt status and government funding to promote youth sport not stifle it while aligning themselves with for profit organizations and using anti competitive and monopoly practices in the process that are in fact contrary to the Competitions Act
That's good news. hopefully those teams won't try to get more $$ out of them, I'm sure they won't, but you never know.
Again, this type of verbiage isn't what you see from a common parent.
If you leave Canada, you can't expect them to welcome you to use their existing infrastructure. Does the CPJHL have a licensing program for refs? Looking at their site they do not, so you can appreciate that it appears as thou you're simply trying to piggy back off of others work. If your expecting to use Hockey Canada refs, how fair is it to Hockey Canada, they put the work into license them? If the CPJHL want's refs, should they not also do what Hockey Canada does and license them? If you want to work outside of Hockey Canada, you can't expect them to work with you, it's a not a one way street, you can't take from them without belonging to them.
Ill yield the floor at this point, its a pointless debate given that no matter what is prevented, no one budges.
I hope that the three teams that have folded are not an indicator of more things to come, the CIHL didn't last until November and they had more teams survive the first month and more players on team rosters. Would hate to see kids without a place to play.
Its a shame Angelo doesn't come on here and let us know why the 'checks and balances' failed and why his guarantee that all teams will finish the year fell so quickly. He was quick to criticize us for being 'negative', but when we proved to be correct, he's quiet. This is why we asked questions in July, we weren't being negative, we where being realistic.
Good luck with your endeavor.
Tigers I will take it as a compliment that you consider me well informed as a parent. My posts are not about the CPJHL they are about the Sharpshooters program. Participating in the CPJHL is only one of the things we do and we asked to join HC this year and HEO vetoed it and said no...
I will stop debating as well as I agree it is pointless. If you want you can have the last word
I will stop debating as well as I agree it is pointless. If you want you can have the last word
Its not about the last word, just about honesty and accountability. We'll never agree about the CPJHL, and I've already said I have zero issues with the sharpshooters program. I think Angelo's program is fine, I believe kids will get exactly what they pay for.
I dislikes league that leave kids in a lurch like the CIHL did last year and the CPJHL may do this year. Kids shouldn't be out $$$ just for wanting to play hockey.
However, when Angelo comes on here and goes after us for being negative, guaranteeing that every CPJHL team will finish the year because of 'checks and balances', that's not fair to those of us where where belittled. Im a big boy, I can take it, but if its about accountability as Angelo stated, Angelo should be accountable for what he said, and for questioning our motives. We where right, we shouldn't have been told we where not allowed to question him.
But he's not, so we're left guessing. It is what it is.
Tigers as an American familiar with US hockey are you able to confirm my understanding that USA hockey lost a court challenge in the past and now as a result their is unrestricted player mobility in the US?
PS thanks for the compliment about the Sharpshooters it is a very good program
PS thanks for the compliment about the Sharpshooters it is a very good program
If its not about the last word, and you are done debating, why are you still debating?
My issues above are well documented, let Angelo know that we were not incorrect in challenging his claims about the CPJHL. Fair is fair, if he was so active in going after us for doubting him, he should be just as active now that we have been proven right.
Thats all.
Referees are not independent contractors. They are trained by HC, certified by HC, and assigned by local HC organizations. Like I have said, HC has every right to direct their members not to participate in another organization's activities or risk losing their membership. That is not a breach of the Competition Act in any way.
As far as the CPJHL, the OP stated that the league would thrive, that all 11 teams would finish the season, and that it would provide a high caliber of hockey. 3/11 teams have already folded, many are struggling to ice 9-12 skaters per game. As for the caliber of play, people can watch the live feeds and judge for themselves.
As far as the CPJHL, the OP stated that the league would thrive, that all 11 teams would finish the season, and that it would provide a high caliber of hockey. 3/11 teams have already folded, many are struggling to ice 9-12 skaters per game. As for the caliber of play, people can watch the live feeds and judge for themselves.
Perfectly put. And the OP does not seem interested in living up to these statements.
No Skin in the Game
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They are not stifling anything and clearly do not have a monopoly or your program would not exist, your program is allowed to operate without restriction, but why would you expect Hockey Canada to pay to develop, train and insure referees to go provide services in a competitors league who contributes nothing to the infrastructure that creates the referees in the first place? Referees are free to work for one organization or another, there is nothing stopping them for working for the CPJHL, they just have to choose between the 2 organizations. Also why would HEO sanction the sharpshooters if they are unwilling to play under the structure and rules governing HEO? You can't have it both ways....
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I know its fun and easy to bash the league but the real blame goes to Hockey Canada and its members.
