No Skin in the Game
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- Sep 15, 2015
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Cpjhl junior development league
- Thread starter arcjoif6
- Start date
People for years have been demanding changes so those changes are not made people/groups go to there other option and start up there own leagues.
No Skin in the Game
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- Sep 15, 2015
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Of course, which is their right, and I have no issue with people deciding the Hockey Canada system is not for them but you cannot at the same time expect the league you left to support you in your new league with resources they developed and affiliate your league and sanction your players.....you cannot have your cake and eat it too.
It's really not hard to argue against letting them into the AAA league. If you did that, then you have completely blown up all boundaries. If they were a school like the CHA or OHA and were restricted on local player then maybe ?
As is, you could never let Private Clubs into the HEO leagues. To do so would create chaos within the existing system. (right or wrong)
As far as I am aware there are no boundaries in the current HEO U18 league under the umbrella of the CCHL teams, players from everywhere are playing anywhere.
I am not sure what Angelo's vision would have been if our program would have been allowed to join HC but I do know from what Angelo told us that HEO gave a flat no with no discussion
I don't blame HEO for saying no, if these kids wanted to play HEO u18 then they should have gone to tryouts and if good enough then league might even be stronger. If it was this easy to put a team in HEO, then do you not think the top 2001s or 2002s would make a team together?
Who says that if a AAA calibre club joins Hockey Canada that it is to play in the local U18 league. The Sharpshooters program offers a different option than playing in the local league. Again not sure what Angelos vision would have been had we been allowed to join Hockey Canada but I am sure it was outside the box
No Skin in the Game
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- Sep 15, 2015
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Who (other than your members) says your club is AAA calibre? You are not playing in a leagues with a tier system to judge where you would be placed. Its very hard to imagine that any or all of the players would slide into a spot on a AAA roster in HEO.
The Sharpshooters would welcome the opportunity to play an exhibition game against any one of the U18 teams. I believe Angelo has tried but HEO would not let any teams play us not even the two schools in the league
Also as Angelo has said in prior posts we are not trying to compete with anyone we want to co exist so players can choose whatever option they feel best meets their needs and goals. We offer a different option that's all
I believe it was 2 of 21? You can appreciate the skepticism, and as a parent, your
1. not unbiased, and 2. not an elevator.
And no one is saying there's an issue with this.
The issue is that Angelo made alot of guarantees, many of which did not happen, and now he's not here to answer them. He was very quick to aggressively go after those of us who questioned things, now that our questions turned out to be justified, he's disappeared. If integrity is something that Angelo holds highly, he should be just as active now as he was previously.
But it is what it is, the arguments are so silly at this point (see the refs) that its not worth even bothering engaging.
Worry about you guys, don't worry about others. You guys made a conscious decision to operate outside of Hockey Canada, and that's fine, but own it, don't complain about not having Hockey Canada's infrastructure when you choose to operate outside of Hockey Canada's infrastructure. Its your choice. Own it.
Enjoy your year.
It is easy to say you would welcome the opportunity but it is not going to happen and I would guess Angelo knew the answer before he asked the question. If I let our midget team play a game it would be me and my coach getting in trouble.
You decided to play on a non Hockey Canada sanctioned hockey then that is one of the results, HC rules are clear, their members can only play other HC or Hockey USA teams, it is not an HEO decision to make. It is just the way it is, they are not even allowed to play prep teams, although some prep teams are becoming HC teams now, so it is changing, but they are following HC rules.
No Skin in the Game
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- Sep 15, 2015
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Once again, you cannot deliberately choose to play in a league outside of HC and then be surprised when you are not allowed to play against HC sanctioned teams. You are happy with your choice and that is all that matters but it is silly to expect anything other than what you have, finding your own ref's and not playing HC teams...You may say you are not trying to compete with anyone but in fact you are...by virtue of setting up an alternative outside the umbrella of HC you are doing exactly that....
+1
If you make a decision, own that decision. Don't complain about the results of that decision. Anyways, ill yield to others, not much purpose to me posting on here if Angelo isn't willing to come back and talk about why he was wrong.
Whose complaining about the Sharpshooters program not being part of Hockey Canada. I am not. What I am doing is pointing out conduct by a not for profit organization given tax exempt status and government funding to expand the sport, that is inconsistent with its raison d'être
No Skin in the Game
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- Sep 15, 2015
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It is exactly following its mandate in this situation. You are not following their rules, policies or certifications and are not insured by them.....playing you does not grow the support in any way shape or form, you are not bringing new players into the sport you are recruiting players that have been trained and developed by HC for many years. Until you have players that start out in your program and are developed solely by your program and have never played hockey in the HC system you are not expanding the sport. I do not know if you are a not for profit organization or tax exempt so I cannot comment on that.
HC's mandate is to govern and expand the sport. It governs it by providing regulations that its members are to follow. It has grown the sport for decades, and it has welcomed new organizations and new teams, that want to join AND abide by those regulations. Each year, they hold an Annual General Meeting to introduce and vote on changes to those regulations. If a new league decides they are above those regulations, and want to do things their way, why would HC assist them in any way? HC certifies, trains, insures and regulates their refs, why should they allow CPJHL to benefit from that?
Plain and simple, CPJHL is not the first 'outlaw' league, the other leagues have experienced the same sanctions. Why would the CPJHL expect a warm welcome? Its members chose to join a league that exists outside of the HC umbrella. Their reasons are individual, but it was their choice.
What happened to 'Checks and Balances'?
Still struggling with the 'checks and balances' of this new league. On September 1st, the CPJHL was an 11 team league, with a system of checks and balances to ensure ALL 11 teams finished the season. Before the season started there was rumblings that teams were struggling to fill rosters, and a team (Norwood) was granted a delay to build their roster. The day of the opening game, it was announced that two other teams (Akwesasne and Coldwater) would not start the year due to a lack of players (wikipedia and media releases). We were told this was a league decision, based on 'checks and balances'. A fourth team (Burks Falls), who had already had an ownership change, was granted a two-week delayed start due to a coaching change, as they grabbed Akwesasne's forme coach/GM in an effort to recruit the players he had. They too folded up shop, due to a lack of players, and were allowed to amalgamate with another team owned by the same group (Muskoka). Suddenly the league that would finish with 11 teams, had 8.
The 'checks and balances' that "would not jeopardize the quality of play or the safety of our players", appears to have disappeared. Norwood still has roster issues, icing 9 skaters in 4 of its 6 games, and have yet to dress more than 11 skaters. They are 0-6, with 46 goals against and only 14 for. Seaforth has also struggled with players, regularly dressing 11 skaters or less. One of their premier signings left before the first game, and recently signed to be a backup for a Junior C team. They are 0-8, with 51 goals against to only 17 for. One team that hasn't had to suffer through short benches is Essa, but they totally disregard the import rules, dressing 8 (league allowance is 6) imports in 4 of their last 6 games.
Still struggling with the 'checks and balances' of this new league. On September 1st, the CPJHL was an 11 team league, with a system of checks and balances to ensure ALL 11 teams finished the season. Before the season started there was rumblings that teams were struggling to fill rosters, and a team (Norwood) was granted a delay to build their roster. The day of the opening game, it was announced that two other teams (Akwesasne and Coldwater) would not start the year due to a lack of players (wikipedia and media releases). We were told this was a league decision, based on 'checks and balances'. A fourth team (Burks Falls), who had already had an ownership change, was granted a two-week delayed start due to a coaching change, as they grabbed Akwesasne's forme coach/GM in an effort to recruit the players he had. They too folded up shop, due to a lack of players, and were allowed to amalgamate with another team owned by the same group (Muskoka). Suddenly the league that would finish with 11 teams, had 8.
The 'checks and balances' that "would not jeopardize the quality of play or the safety of our players", appears to have disappeared. Norwood still has roster issues, icing 9 skaters in 4 of its 6 games, and have yet to dress more than 11 skaters. They are 0-6, with 46 goals against and only 14 for. Seaforth has also struggled with players, regularly dressing 11 skaters or less. One of their premier signings left before the first game, and recently signed to be a backup for a Junior C team. They are 0-8, with 51 goals against to only 17 for. One team that hasn't had to suffer through short benches is Essa, but they totally disregard the import rules, dressing 8 (league allowance is 6) imports in 4 of their last 6 games.
TheLastShift
Canada
- Nov 14, 2007
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This league is far from being about development. Only people benefiting are the ones receiving the insane player fees.
I'm sure they will play the 'checks and balances' saw the teams fold 'for the best of the league, but you're 100 percent correct. Angelo won't touch his previous statements I'm sure, but he promised, full stop, that 11 teams would finish the year.
Now, there are 8 and not a comment about why his previous statement turned out false. It wouldn't be so bad on the surface, but he used that statement and others to aggressively go after all of us, and now that his words prove empty, there's quiet. If you're going to say something, own it.
Ill say it again, no issues with the league on the surface but those involved seem to be operating with various different sets of rules. One positive is that this topic has opened dialog that I think has opened up the eyes of a lot of parents, thanks to those who keep pushing for answers on here. Lets keep it up.
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exactly,the league's mission statements include: "To provide Junior aged players with the opportunity to develop the skills required for moving on to the next level of their hockey career." and "To maintain the spirit of hockey, sportsmanship and teamwork amongst all CPJHL staff, team staff, owners, coaches and players."
Essa has 14 players on their roster 18+, all are at the age that they should have graduated, and two have no further junior options. What are they being developed for? Grey Highlands have 5/2 in the same situation. Norwood only has 14 players, 11 of which are post graduation age and two are 20. All but 2 of Seaforth's active roster are over the age of 18, and two are 20.
What are the 20 year-olds in the league for? One has played 6 games, has 66 minutes in penalties. Another is averaging 7 minutes per game over his 8 games. Muskoka had one that had 34 minutes in his first game, including a gross misconduct. He returned a couple games later, and has since disappeared off the website. He wouldn't appear to have even played in that game, if it didn't still list the individual penalties.
"What we're trying to do is give more chances and more opportunities for young athletes to explore education through hockey, and to move on to the next level,"
The question everyone has asked here all along.....what next level does this league give these kids a better opportunity for? Most are 18-20, and from the games I have seen, none are NCAA caliber. Junior A, B or OHL? Again, from what I have seen, 99% would be hard pressed to dress for a Junior C team. So they are paying $8000 to play an inferior quality of hockey, away from home. Sure smells like parents have been hosed. WHat happens in November after more teams fold? How will Norwood and Seaforth reimburse players,when they have run with half rosters (half income) so far this year?
Would appear as thou one of the CPJHL partner leagues is having their issues as well
https://thejuniorhockeynews.com/the-death-pool-special-report-nphl-another-one-bites-the-dust/
https://thejuniorhockeynews.com/the-death-pool-special-report-nphl-another-one-bites-the-dust/
BadgerBruce
Registered User
- Aug 8, 2013
- 1,631
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Valid questions.
If we look broadly at the pathways available to hockey players from the youngest ages, the dots are easy to connect. House and local league teams feed Select and Rep teams. Rep teams feed A-AAA teams. AAA teams (eventually) feed junior and College teams. These junior and College teams feed professional teams.
With each step along the pathway, the competition for roster spots gets stiffer. One could generalize and state that this increased level of competition is the norm in society -- lots of people want to attend medical school and become physicians, but only a small number are capable of doing so. If this were not the case, the quality of practicing physicians would be much lower and the citizenry would have real cause for worry.
This league (and several others) is a bit like some kind of alternative/ independent medical school for students who do not possess the credentials required to gain admittance into accredited medical schools. Even if a student shines in such an environment, no hospital will offer a residency, which means a career as a practising physician is not possible.
These medical students were trained for a "next level" that does not exist for them.
This league (and others, so I'm not picking on them in a focused way) claims to "develop" players for higher levels I simply cannot identify. People in the western world are free to spend their time and money as they wish, but I would not be too keen on investing in training of any kind that has no history or track record of leading anywhere other than where I started.
An apt metaphor. To carry it further it would also be that those students attending the accredited schools are doing so on scholarship, perhaps even supported with a stipend, while those suckered by the independents are paying Ivy level tuition for the "med school experience" where the curriculum consists of playing operation.
It's fraud in effect if not in name. Taking advantage of the egos/dreams of kids and parents
