Coyotes Tempe arena project rejected by public referendum - will remain at Mullett Arena for 2023-24

[Mike Jones]

What do you base this conclusion on?

And you forgot about corporate seats, sponsorships...

I'd be willing to bet that a playoff run wold generate more money in Atlanta than in Quebec. Think of it this way- for simplicity sake- let's say there are 50,000 people in QC who make $100,000. In Atlanta, a city with four times as many people, it could be 200,000 people (not a perfect analogy but hopefully you get my point). More people with more discretionary income.

You have to match the buyer with the product. How many of these rich folks in Atlanta actually want to buy anything to do with hockey? Person for person QC probably has more fans and is more profitable than Atlanta - which makes QC toxic to the NHL leadership.

 

[Sniper99]

Is there an NFL, NBA, or MLB equivalent to the Coyotes? A franchise that has always been a financial struggle?

Maybe Jacksonville? Dont sell out a lot of home games, their tickets are actually pretty cheap. One of two teams every year that goes to play a regular season game in London to promote the game there.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

And those jobs are never additional jobs- just a transfer from somewhere else in the city

Same with the commerce. It's been proven over and over that entertainment districts just shift around money. People aren't just going to start spending more, they'll just spend differently.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

You have to match the buyer with the product. How many of these rich folks in Atlanta actually want to buy anything to do with hockey? Person for person QC probably has more fans and is more profitable than Atlanta - which makes QC toxic to the NHL leadership.

It's called marketing and growth.

See the packed house in Carolina tonight? Do you suppose they were all hockey fans before the Hurricanes arrived?

Maybe Jacksonville? Dont sell out a lot of home games, their tickets are actually pretty cheap. One of two teams every year that goes to play a regular season game in London to promote the game there.

Oakland

 

[hacksaw7]

Is there an NFL, NBA, or MLB equivalent to the Coyotes? A franchise that has always been a financial struggle?

Montreal Expos prob from like...1997 onward

 

[BruinsFan37]

Yotes have an estimated value of 450million....

When they get outspent by a union 2million to 250K (1.75 million) that's either incompetence, or they really don't want to be there (since it's the Yotes, prolly both).

 

[LOFIN]

Yotes have an estimated value of 450million....

When they get outspent by a union 2million to 250K (1.75 million) that's either incompetence, or they really don't want to be there (since it's the Yotes, prolly both).

Well look at how they have conducted hockey business lately. Trying to claw as much dead money contracts as possible to get to the salary cap floor without actually spending money.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Yotes have an estimated value of 450million....

When they get outspent by a union 2million to 250K (1.75 million) that's either incompetence, or they really don't want to be there (since it's the Yotes, prolly both).

You're talking about an owner who are notorious for being late, or even trying to cheat his way out of payments. The guy who didn't want to spend money on food for the Coyotes players in the bubble. I'm guessing the only reason he owns the Coyotes is because he's the only person who told Gary Bettman that he wanted the franchise to stay in Arizona.

 

[Hockeysawks]

Same with the commerce. It's been proven over and over that entertainment districts just shift around money. People aren't just going to start spending more, they'll just spend differently.

Except hockey teams make national advertisement dollars along with online betting and tv contracts. It absolutely adds outside dollars and funds many local jobs.

 

[bleedblue94]

"Even if there is no move and no concrete contingency, I cannot be proven wrong" - you

Okay.

Ha you literally aren't even aware of the other sites worked on already but you're trying to mock me bc of your ignorance, makes sense.

If it makes you feel better go for it!

 

[buffa dud]

Jesus Christ, man. Hate to see anyone losing their team like this.

Billionaires griping that the political machine they created is failing their agenda, I could cry I'm so happy.

 

[Mike Jones]

It's called marketing and growth.

Quebec City is already there and is good to go.

 

[Dr Pepper]

What a stupid situation

Just when you think that franchise has hit rock bottom and can't go any lower.......they bring in an excavator.

There's truly no end to it.

I feel for their fans.

 

[Predation]

Bettman knows he needs to attract more fans, and you are not going to attract more fans by moving the team to QC. This team will be moved to a large non traditional market in the states. Probably Houston or Atlanta, whoever has interested buyers with deep pockets. I will also add that Atlanta will be building an arena and entertainment district that will rival the Battery where the Braves play. I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but my money is on Atlanta.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Yotes have an estimated value of 450million....

When they get outspent by a union 2million to 250K (1.75 million) that's either incompetence, or they really don't want to be there (since it's the Yotes, prolly both).

I've mentioned this prior, but I'm baffled by that bit of information. The only person reporting it was Seravalli, citing an "NHL source." Not a single local report from Arizona mentions union opposition or spending, nowhere is it reported what union and how the money was spent (TV ads, direct mail? GOTV efforts and canvassing?)

Most of the local reporting points out that the "no" PAC was outspent by the Coyotes/NHL something like 30:1. And due to that local reporting and the fact that PAC expenditures are publicly reported, we know that the $250k number is wrong--they spent much more than that.

So, I trust Frank as a hockey reporter--local politics? Maybe not as much. I'm really scratching my head at the veracity of that claim, because it's just not corroborated anywhere else.

 

[russ99]

They should be moved already but this is Bettman’s pet franchise.

I’m thinking they try Tempe again but without the cash grab additional development part to enrich ownership with public money and maybe it goes through. Seems like opposition to the referendum had that as their big reason to vote no.

But something has to give, owners will not stand for supporting a struggling team in a tiny stadium with profit sharing and the players can’t be happy about income decline compared to a thriving franchise that both affects cap growth and how much they have to put in escrow.

 

[RogerRoger]

They should be moved already but this is Bettman’s pet franchise.

I’m thinking they try Tempe again but without the cash grab additional development part to enrich ownership with public money and maybe it goes through. Seems like opposition to the referendum had that as their big reason to vote no.

But something has to give, owners will not stand for supporting a struggling team in a tiny stadium with profit sharing and the players can’t be happy about income decline compared to a thriving franchise that both affects cap growth and how much they have to put in escrow.

There is also a NHLPA guy who might put pressure to get the team to a good location for the betterment of the Yotes player and to increase the cap and get players more money.

How much begging would the Yotes need to do to go back to Glendale? It's crazy that they'd rather play in the 5K arena.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Except hockey teams make national advertisement dollars along with online betting and tv contracts. It absolutely adds outside dollars and funds many local jobs.

Once again, this doesn't create advertising space. The advertising space already exists. It could potentially increase the value of said advertising if the team becomes more popular, but that just forces advertisers to shift their focus from other targets.

Also, pretty much none of the TV money and Internet money end up back in local economies so it doesn't matter. The city sees no return on that.

The alleged selling point for a city is that it creates jobs and boosts the local economy by people spending money.

We know after decades of research that neither happens. Jobs move from one part of town to another, as does commerce.

Publicly funded arenas are basically always a vanity project and a poor economic investment.

The only way this sort of investment can be worth it is is it attracts large numbers of people to move to Tempe. That would mean you are actually creating new commerce and creating new jobs.

This project, and others like it, won't do that.

Montreal Expos prob from like...1997 onward

In that instance the league actively tried to kick them out of the league though.

 

[Heldig]

Quebec City is already there and is good to go.

How do you figure realignment?

 

[Mike Jones]

How do you figure realignment?

Bump a borderline team into the west. Someone in the league office must be able to read a map.

 

[SEALBound]

Only that that I wonder about is - would the vote have changed had they got Bedard? I have no idea but I think it pretty much proves the draft lottery isn't rigged. If there was ever a time to rig it, giving the 1OV to Arizona was it.

But that said, they have a gluttony of draft picks coming up in the next three years and some really decent young kids coming up. If I was an owner looking for a team on the cusp of relocating, NOW is the prime time to snag the Coyotes. Whoa man is now the right time.

 

[patnyrnyg]

How do you figure realignment?

Keep Quebec in the west for now like was done to Winnipeg. One extra game in Quebec for each Central team and 4 of the Pacific teams will not hurt them. 11 extra games in the Central, Mountain, Pacific timezones will not hurt them. If was an old Nordiques fan hoping to see an NHL team return to the city, I would be willing to have them in the Alaska-Hawaii division to get them in.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

Quebec City is already there and is good to go.

....with a population of 850,000 and in the same market sphere of the Canadiens.

And having a team in QC doesn't grow the fanbase; Canadians are hockey fans already, it's ubiquitous throughout the country and deeply ingrained in the culture (for now at least, this may change with having to rely on immigration for population growth).

Winnipeg is already one of the lowest revenue generating teams, given the same size of their markets, Quebec would just become another low revenue-generating team. Doesn't exactly add much to HRR.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Only that that I wonder about is - would the vote have changed had they got Bedard? I have no idea but I think it pretty much proves the draft lottery isn't rigged. If there was ever a time to rig it, giving the 1OV to Arizona was it

0 impact. Apparently when they were trying to appeal to voters during door-to-door canvassing, the Coyotes weren't even one of the first 5 things they mentioned--the messaging was all around the investment and event space, not a hockey team. Think they probably had research showing that all the old folks who ultimately doomed the project really don't give a damn about a hockey team, so telling them "guess what they won the draft lottery and can select the best prospect since McDavid" would mean approximately nothing to those people.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Only that that I wonder about is - would the vote have changed had they got Bedard? I have no idea but I think it pretty much proves the draft lottery isn't rigged. If there was ever a time to rig it, giving the 1OV to Arizona was it.

But that said, they have a gluttony of draft picks coming up in the next three years and some really decent young kids coming up. If I was an owner looking for a team on the cusp of relocating, NOW is the prime time to snag the Coyotes. Whoa man is now the right time.

They could've rigged the draft for the next 5 years & it doesn't move the needle. The voters couldn't care less about hockey. People voted no because they heard "tax breaks for Billionaires" & it pissed them off. The team did a terrible job of getting their own message out there.