Friedman: Coyotes gauging the market on Chychrun

[Bevans]

That is a big statement though, no player has been traded like him in the cap era? The guy has 1 good half season essentially and is following it up with a pretty poor season. Just don't think that is true at all

Well I see a lot of words but no examples.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Well I see a lot of words but no examples.

Seth Jones is a recent example with way more track record of being a top pairing defender who was traded for a haul.

Don't have the time or the desire to find more examples for such an outlandish statement

 

[ole ole]

It's a good base but probably needs Holloway instead of one of the 1sts. The competition will be high for him, just off the top of my head teams like LA, Winnipeg, Chicago, Montreal, St Louis and New Jersey would be in the mix, and that is without teams like the Rangers who might be willing to fast-forward their LD.

Habs would love him but don't have the available assets . Habs are also in the start of a rebuild.

 

[Bevans]

Seth Jones is a recent example with way more track record of being a top pairing defender who was traded for a haul.

Don't have the time or the desire to find more examples for such an outlandish statement

Older, was pending free agent, makes more than double. Hawks had to give him a long term contract that takes him beyond his best years.

I guess it's easy to spend other people's money but I assure you it matters to GMs and owners.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

He’s a pretty comparable asset to Hamilton at the time of his trade to Carolina.

I like this comparable better, though:

Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson

That’s standout case of an overpay on paper that is required to make an otherwise unavailable player available. Convert to futures and scale up.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Older, was pending free agent, makes more than double. Hawks had to give him a long term contract that takes him beyond his best years.

I guess it's easy to spend other people's money but I assure you it matters to GMs and owners.

Makes double after the trade and next year, not this year/before trade. Can't say he is a pending UFA and makes double at time of the trade as that doesn't really make sense. He also has like 5 times as many years being a top pairing guy which i think GMs may also value..

Regardless if you actually think that there is no way im going to be able to change your mind so im not going to waste my time.

 

[SwedishFire]

2022 1st + 2023 1st + Broberg to start from Oilers.

Barrie for Chuchryn. Ehy throw awsy firsts like candy?

 

[Heldig]

Toronto can’t just take on Chychruns salary they need to send something back. I thought Nylander is still a good player to send back their way. Don’t think they want Marner and his cap. Matthews is a no go from Toronto POV.

I didn't think your proposal was serious.

Nylander would be a huge get for the Coyotes. Sadly, he is apparently too good and too old for the rebuilding Coyotes.

 

[These Are The Days]

Y'all want Sergachev?

 

[Apex Predator]

I didn't think your proposal was serious.

Nylander would be a huge get for the Coyotes. Sadly, he is apparently too good and too old for the rebuilding Coyotes.

Coyotes aren’t going to trade him for nothing. I don’t know if the Leafs make that trade but i think it’s the best they can offer the coyotes that doesn’t come off as insulting trade offer. I get it that lots of leafs fans think it’s bad or over pay but to get him at a good cap hit would be a huge get for the Leafs or anyone.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Why?

Because he's half decent

 

[Fogelhund]

Can he play the Right side adequately? Or better on the Left side?

 

[TFHockey]

Barrie for Chuchryn. Ehy throw awsy firsts like candy?

That isn't a fair trade for Arizona

 

[The Nuge]

Wow, being deliberately obtuse now?

The last 3 players we drafted with our first who have even had the opportunity to play 3 seasons with us were Hayton, POJ, and Keller.

If you wanna count Soderstrom too, that's fine. All 3 are in the NHL, though we traded POJ.

And all 3 were done under previous draft management and scouting. Our scouting has looked much better and is being praised while under Armstrong.

In fact, of our '21 draft picks, Moser has just debuted and looked fine and should see more time, and Guenther will almost certainly be in the pro's next year.

The last 3 drafts have been Guenther, a highly touted prospect under current management, a f***ing 5th round pick as our first in the draft, and Soderstrom, who again, is doing just fine, and also was under different management.

If you don't believe current management, handpicked and tailored directly from BA, will do anything with the picks, that's fine, you're just wrong. I'll come back to this message in a few years and we can have a good laugh.

Oh, and the Coyotes have picked in the top 5 exactly twice in that decade, and the top 10 4 times. Unfortunately not as good as other teams like the Oilers, Sabres, or Devils, but hopefully we can achieve that level of suckage now that we're actually trying to, and hopefully not get shafted by the Oilers a 2nd time!

There’s no need to make petty insults because you didn’t understand OP’s point. They said the players Arizona takes in the draft over the next 3 years are unlikely to make an impact before Chychrun’s contract is up in 2025, and I agree with them. That isn’t some controversial statement.

The Coyotes haven’t finished in the top half of the league since 2011/12, so yes, they’ve had plenty of high picks to give us the sample needed to say that it’s unlikely that many of the players selected in the next 3 drafts will be making an impact by 2024. Hopefully the Coyotes get lucky and win one of the next couple lotteries (I’m literally wearing a Coyotes shirt at the moment. I want the team to succeed), so they can get someone that steps in immediately, but one player can’t turn a team around immediately regardless of how good they are.

Saying most of the players selected in the next 3 drafts aren’t likely to play before Chychrun’s contact runs out literally has nothing to do with how good they may be, or how good of a job the Coyotes are doing. It’s a simple fact that most players don’t make the NHL full time at age 18/19.

The Coyotes pick high?

yes. They literally haven’t finished in the top half of the league in a decade. Heck, they’ve only finished outside of the bottom 10 a single time since they became the Arizona Coyotes, and that year was still bottom 15.

I can’t say if Chychun is worth keeping, some of it depends on if his plunging shooting % has hurt his trade value at the moment. There’s about a zero chance the Coyotes will be off and running great in less then three years after going complete scorched earth, though Connor Bedard would juice a turnaround.

that’s literally the entirety of the debate. So you actually agree with the OP that I’m defending then?

Your use of Arizona’s results in the last three drafts is… odd? They did the opposite of a rebuild in those last few years, until recently really, and now they have a third of the picks in the upcoming draft.

It’s not odd in the slightest. The discussion was how many of the Coyotes upcoming draft picks will make the NHL within the next 3 years. Do you not agree that the easiest comparison to look at would be how many players have made the NHL from the last 3 years? Even if we give them back the missing picks, that’s still a small number.

The 2021 draft has three players who have played a combined 45 games and scored a combined 17 points. They picked 9th in punchless, COVID wrecked draft. So, yeah?

The 2020 draft has 18 players who have played in 376 NHL games, for a combined 166 points (98 points in 198 games from the top 4 picks). Wait, Arizona’s first pick in this draft was #111 and they forfeited that bully, so now the first pick they have is #142.

One single player from the 2020 draft after that pick has played in the NHL, Ben McCartney (2GP zero points) drafted at #204, by Arizona.

So 2020 is not exactly an example of Arizona picking high in the draft. (Thanks for Mercer tho.)

Hey look, they drafted #11 in 2019! That’s sort of high. Soderstrom, a defenseman, has played 13 games and has 4 points. Wow, shocking. If you look at all of the defenseman drafted after him, you have 6 players who combine for 110 NHL games played and 24 points.

The next pick of the always picking high Coyotes is #76, because nothing says “high pick” like the middle of the 3rd round. Four players selected after him have played in the NHL for a total of 34 games and 7 points.

That’s a good breakdown of their drafts, but ultimately proves the point the original poster was making. Most players don’t make the NHL within that time.

They going to pick a wee bit higher than 9th. Like probably 1st and at worst 3rd. And they have multiple 1sts and five 2nd round picks, as opposed to none. So they can combine 1sts & 2nds and move up.

Yep, and hopefully they win the lottery. But that doesn’t change the fact that outside of their own 1sts, most of those guys won’t be in the NHL in 2024. If you look at the draft 3 years ago, there’s 6 2nd rounders who have played an NHL game, and only 1 who has 30+ games or double digit points. So statistically speaking those 5 2nds might result in 1 guy who even plays a game within that timespan.

The Coyotes top 10 picks since 1996:
2021 #9: Dylan Guenther
2018 #5 Barrett Hayton
2016: #7 Clayton Keller
2015 #3 Dylan Strome
2009 #6 Oliver Ekman-Larson
2008 #8 Mikkel Beodker
2007 #3 Kyle Turris
2006 #8 Peter Mueller
2004 #5 Blake Wheeler

That doesn’t seem like a lot high picks ever, never mind recently, maybe you’re confusing it with a different team…

2019 #8 Phillip Broberg
2018 #10 Evan Bouchard
2016 #4 Jesse Puljujarvi
2015 #1 Connor McDavid
2014 #3 Leon Draisaitl
2013 #7 Darnell Nurse
2012 #1 Nail Yakupov
2011 #1 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2010 #1 Taylor Hall
2009 #10 Magnus Paajarvi
2007 #6 Sam Gagner
1996 #6 Boyd Devereaux

Of the last 8 years, the Coyotes have finished bottom 10 7 times. The Oilers have been bottom 10 5 times. And that’s entirely not the point. The point about how quickly players transition to the NHL isn’t in any way a criticism of the Coyotes. It’s a simple fact league wide

 

[Groo]

That isn't a fair trade for Arizona

Not by a Swedish mile

 

[drktmplr12]

arizona has all the leverage.

whoever thinks they want a roster player is only fooling themselves. they 100% want prospects and picks. anything else is a favor.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

We all just saw what GMs are willing to pay (overpay) for big physical defensemen that can also score in the Jones and Ristolainen trades.

The notable differences with Chychrun being that he is younger, can actually defend and is signed for three years on a good contract, unlike those other two.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

Going to be three firsts value

No way he gets Carey Price value in a trade. He didn't go to the Semi Finals last year.

 

[DegeN9]

To Yotes:
Bouchard
Holloway
2nd

To Oilers:
Chyc

The cap exists

 

[TFHockey]

The cap exists

Not only that, the Oilers literally can't deal away their only top pairing RHD. It's like people don't even care about reality.

 

[DegeN9]

Not only that, the Oilers literally can't deal away their only top pairing RHD. It's like people don't even care about reality.

Yeah as far as I’m concerned I’d move Broberg long before Bouchard. We have an abundance of guys on the left side in comparison.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Yeah as far as I’m concerned I’d move Broberg long before Bouchard. We have an abundance of guys on the left side in comparison.

If the Oilers are in on it, you'd think Barrie would have to be involved for cap reasons. Unless Arizona wants Koskinen, but...yeah.

Barrie, 1st round pick, Broberg, Yamamoto for Chycrun? If they want to clear money they should be able to flip Barrie, despite the opinion of HFers about him.

 

[Mr Positive]

Definitely a gamble especially given his lack of track record being a top pairing guy and the obscene prices to aquire him

GMs will always take the risk. Trades, signings, whatever.

It makes sense considering that GMs only last a few years in their gig. Might as well gamble the future.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

If the Oilers are in on it, you'd think Barrie would have to be involved for cap reasons. Unless Arizona wants Koskinen, but...yeah.

Barrie, 1st round pick, Broberg, Yamamoto for Chycrun? If they want to clear money they should be able to flip Barrie, despite the opinion of HFers about him.

If I'm Arizona, I'm making sure I get Holloway and Broberg (assuming, I think very rightly, that Bouchard is unavailable) and taking on cap as necessary (bonus if I think they're moveable in any way, e.g. Barrie).

 

[Mr Positive]

The cap exists

For this year we may have the LTIR to do it.

Plus we could send some salary back. Kassian probably