If only we weren't also up against it. When a team looks around for help there is a far bette chance the other teans throw you anchors than life preservers.
Confirmed with Link: Coyotes forfeit 2020 2nd round pick and a 2021 1st round pick for violating league’s combine testing
- Thread starter RABBIT
- Start date
and removes Sullivan from the list.
There's only 31 (32) GM jobs, so somebody will want it.....but right now it's definitely the 32nd best GM job.
BUX7PHX
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So, what was it that actually got revealed about this testing?
Sorry, but so far, here are the cheating incidents known about in pro sports:
Houston (MLB)
a sign stealing system had been set for years and evolved over time - the results were made known of how this was accomplished
New England (NFL)
an employee was found to be taping the Bengals practices in 2020 and NE was fined and had a draft pick taken away (2020)
Tom Brady was found to be deflating balls, and this was determined to be true during pre-game test info (2014)
NBA
Referee Tim Donaghy was found to influence score lines, etc. for gambling (late 200os)
All of these items of cheating had real evidence of what was specifically being done. Have we ever received any sort of information from the NHL regarding what, exactly, was done as a part of the prospect testing? Something just doesn't make sense when all of these other sports have clear violations, which were then heavily substantiated. The only thing that we have is that the NHL acknowledges that we admitted wrongdoing. Is it too difficult to establish exactly what was done? Just simply say that the Coyotes would bring a prospect in and have them do cardio in front of them. Or something. If the cheating is this rampant, wouldn't there be a clear line to the methods of cheating that were used?
Also, does anyone think that given who we have as coaches, their backgrounds, etc. - they would be at least cognizant of these rules that are in place? Something doesn't make sense in this whole ordeal.
Sorry, but so far, here are the cheating incidents known about in pro sports:
Houston (MLB)
a sign stealing system had been set for years and evolved over time - the results were made known of how this was accomplished
New England (NFL)
an employee was found to be taping the Bengals practices in 2020 and NE was fined and had a draft pick taken away (2020)
Tom Brady was found to be deflating balls, and this was determined to be true during pre-game test info (2014)
NBA
Referee Tim Donaghy was found to influence score lines, etc. for gambling (late 200os)
All of these items of cheating had real evidence of what was specifically being done. Have we ever received any sort of information from the NHL regarding what, exactly, was done as a part of the prospect testing? Something just doesn't make sense when all of these other sports have clear violations, which were then heavily substantiated. The only thing that we have is that the NHL acknowledges that we admitted wrongdoing. Is it too difficult to establish exactly what was done? Just simply say that the Coyotes would bring a prospect in and have them do cardio in front of them. Or something. If the cheating is this rampant, wouldn't there be a clear line to the methods of cheating that were used?
Also, does anyone think that given who we have as coaches, their backgrounds, etc. - they would be at least cognizant of these rules that are in place? Something doesn't make sense in this whole ordeal.
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GhostofTommyBolin
Registered User
I'm sure the staff(coaches, etc.) were well aware of the rules, but they decided it was worth the risk and tried to get away with it anyway. The other leagues and their punishments are irrelevant to this situation; the NHL could have said, "If you admit wrongdoing, then we won't let everyone know exactly what you did."
He was the President of hockey ops? The new owners didn’t take over until approximately November.
who else do you have to blame? god? He’s already forsaken us.
TheLegend
"Just say it 3 times..."
moosemeister
5,000 strong
Neighborhood Coyote
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One possible benefit for the new GM is that he gets to come into a situation that looks bad and if he turns it around he's a hero... if he can't he won't be blamed like he would be otherwise. Positive spin on that for potential hires haha.
Guessing either the salary just went up or the quality of the hire just went down.
moosemeister
5,000 strong
Giving biggest GM money ever to Chiarelli says otherwise
Arthur Morgan
Registered User
Has info been given yet? Was it Chayka that organized this cheating? or did the President/Owner go over his head and do it? I guess this is why Chayka just outta no where terminated his own contract?
Nobody knows any real details. Your guess is as good as ours.
Neighborhood Coyote
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Well.. since the Yotes aren't paying money for a fine maybe that's competent GM money now? One can dream.
Dirty Old Man
Yotah Hockey Club
I'm the same, and I was trying to figure out why I'm such a sucker...and I think I figured it out.
I've been through this before.
I survived the multiple probations of the Florida Gators in 85,86, and 90, Charley Pell and Galen Hall era. Had to vacate/not claim our first and second SEC titles (which we'd never won before then)....it sucked. And we were threatened with the SMU-style death penalty when the basketball team cheated too....and out of all that came Steve Spurrier and the (annoyingly, to some) dominant teams of the 90s. Plus the Urban Meyer/Tim Tebow years and the Billy Donovan/B2B title years...
Will that happen with the Coyotes? Probably not. But it's why I'll just shrug at those who leave.
The Coyotes should become the wayward home for good guys with unfortunate contracts for the next 3 years. Ottawa took their medicine and are sitting pretty. Now it's the Coyotes turn.
I think you could pull off a pretty impressive rebuild given there's already some good youngsters on the roster. It just requires massive balls.
87turbobuick
Registered User
Come on, it is not his fault all his teachers and parents told him he is great. His stats company got him this job when the Hedge Fund owner decided a stats nerd could be a GM.
BUX7PHX
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With as much noise as this has circulated, and the cost to the team from picks lost (which many sound somewhat surprised by), does that fit the narrative that the NHL would "not let other teams know about the wrongdoing?" Or if this was such a gray area, wouldn't we see the NHL rulebook regarding offseason activity get updated so that this doesn't carry a gray area that other teams may get targeted for?
That's where my thought is that if this is a gray area that needs clarification and Arizona is punished for exploiting the loophole - the Coyotes may receive a penalty, but I would also expect a change in language to the offseason activity of teams, so as to close that loophole. Because, if this is a gray area that exposed a flaw in the method used for the NHL, then other teams have certainly thought about doing what the Coyotes had done, and might even be in that stage. Making a change to that rule clears the air. So that leaves one possibility as the one you brought up:
the cheating was so blatant and everyone knew what was going on, however, no one has been able to articulate exactly what was done.
Does that seem likely? If something were so blatantly done, why did it take until the middle of the year before teams really started to report on it? I would think that if the item in question was as blatant as it is, there would have been red flags thrown up from the very first time this was done. All that I am asking for is a timeline of what was done. I understand that the NHL may not operate like other sports leagues, but cheating is cheating, and people will blow the whistle heavily if it is apparent as what it seems.
I am not saying that our staff was innocent and nothing happened. But I am saying that given the outcomes and what we know about how cheating is perceived in sports, it seems odd that little more has been said, outside of the fact that the team got punished. There hasn't even been a clear definition of what it was that the team was doing. If inviting the players for the VO2 max output (or whatever the hell that test is) - okay, that's cheating, but that should be easy to report as well, as that is a specific item to lay claim to cheating.
Meruelo's only owned the team for a year and still learning his way. I'd be surprised if he knew about it, let alone advocated it.
This has Chayka's fingerprints all over it. He fired the former scouting department and replaced them with Lindsey Hofford who came in with no shortage of question marks. Craig Morgan's article today also references some younger scouts who may not of fully understood the rules for testing.
Boy Wonder just burned this organization to the ground.
Tim Bernhardt, wherever he is, has to to be snickering right now.
If the scouting department has to be completely redone then you bring in Futa.
It will be relatively easy to liquidate the roster. Making smart picks and signings in the interim will be the hard part, as will be acquiring players that can function in a rebuild environment, along with a coach heady enough to manage all of it.
It should the Coyotes vs the world on and off the ice.
It will be relatively easy to liquidate the roster. Making smart picks and signings in the interim will be the hard part, as will be acquiring players that can function in a rebuild environment, along with a coach heady enough to manage all of it.
It should the Coyotes vs the world on and off the ice.
