Value of: Coyle, Carlo, Peeke, and/or Frederic

[57special]

I really don't think that one player is going to make a difference in BUF, assuming that we all accept that McDavid/Mackinnon/Kucherov are not going there.

The problem is in their style of play. I mean, what is it? Defensive? Balls out offensive? Tough? Smart? Special teams? Building from a great goaltender out? Fast? Grinding?

I can't really say that any of the above fit. That means they have a muddled output. This is partly from players, but mainly from a poor fit of players(poor GM), and poor execution(coaching).

I don't think it is the player's fault.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Well that's the rub. Top 4 big RD on good contracts just don't get moved so not anything to point to. Trouba was under duress but was much better than Carlo. Risto was much worse defensively, but had some offense and we aren't allowed to count it because it was an overpayment. Marino went for Ty Smith (who was a 17OA who just had finished leading rookie D in scoring and had a lower contract for a cap strapped Pens team) and a pick. Maybe that's the closest? But Ty Smith was more proven than Kulich (and he still flamed out) and the Pens really were desperate to clear the space.

Marino was just traded to Utah in the off-season. He got two 2nd round picks. I don't think asking for Kulich is some outlandish ask, but I wouldn't do it from Buffalo's perspective.

 

[Hookslide]

crap offer

sounds about right

 

[Dr Amazing]

Josh Manson for Brandon Carlo

 

[wintersej]

Josh Manson for Brandon Carlo

Why does Boston give away 5 years in age and a year in contract length? Because it would be cool for Carlo to play in his home state?

 

[dredeye]

Regardless of what the proposal was you may want to revisit the whole "worst contract in the NHL" narrative. After a bit of a slow start for the whole team Nurse is having an excellent season. While the offense is down slightly from his year that saw him get that deal he is probably playing the best hockey of his career.

He and Kulak have been a dominant pair. Of the 93 pairs in the NHL who have played at least 150 minutes together they have the second best xGF% at 64.77% and are tied for the 5th best actual GF%. Since Nov 1, Nurse is tied for 10th in ES points by a defenseman and is first for +/-. Overall he is way above water vs elite competition with a 72.71% GF%.

No one is going to claim that Nurse is a bargain, and the sample size needs to get larger, but there is a fair bit of evidence that away from Ceci, who really was an anchor to more than just Nurse, he is a lot closer to earning that deal than most give him credit for.

Is this meant to improve my stance on the trade? So, we should acquire him in a year he's trended up at even strength forgetting his previous years in the hopes he was only bad because of his linemate? Forgetting the rest of the pieces involved in the deal at the same time. It would cripple the B's cap with all the dollars locked into d long term and so on. It's a bad trade for the B's in every way.

 

[Fourier]

Is this meant to improve my stance on the trade? So, we should acquire him in a year he's trended up at even strength forgetting his previous years in the hopes he was only bad because of his linemate? Forgetting the rest of the pieces involved in the deal at the same time. It would cripple the B's cap with all the dollars locked into d long term and so on. It's a bad trade for the B's in every way.

The trade proposal would never happen from the Oilers side either for a variety of reasons. What it was meant to say was exactly what it did say, that the assertion that Nurse's deal is the worst in the league is not true. In fact it never was, though it is certainly no bargain either.

 

[wintersej]

Marino was just traded to Utah in the off-season. He got two 2nd round picks. I don't think asking for Kulich is some outlandish ask, but I wouldn't do it from Buffalo's perspective.

Yeah I don’t think value wise it’s silly for either team. I don’t think Boston should pull the trigger for window reasons and the chance for Kulich to stick at C instead of W should give Buffalo pause, too:

 

[Fourier]

Is this meant to improve my stance on the trade? So, we should acquire him in a year he's trended up at even strength forgetting his previous years in the hopes he was only bad because of his linemate? Forgetting the rest of the pieces involved in the deal at the same time. It would cripple the B's cap with all the dollars locked into d long term and so on. It's a bad trade for the B's in every way.

The trade proposal would never happen from the Oilers side either soo I don't see it working for either team. My comments were explicitly independent of the trade. What it was meant to say was exactly what it did say, that the assertion that Nurse's deal is the worst in the league is not true. In fact it never was.

 

[biturbo19]

Marino was just traded to Utah in the off-season. He got two 2nd round picks. I don't think asking for Kulich is some outlandish ask, but I wouldn't do it from Buffalo's perspective.

Marino is such an odd case, i think it's hard to use him as a "value" barometer. I wouldn't necessarily call him a "big stay at home RD". He's also been basically dumped twice now, for "cap purposes" to make room for another defenceman. Be that Petry or Pesce.

There's something funky with him. Where NHL teams don't seem to value him nearly the way that most fans seem to. So i wouldn't necessarily use that as the guide on how Carlo would be valued by the league.

 

[UncleRico]

Bruins shouldn’t move any of those players besides maybe Frederic for a scoring type winger. Coyle and Carlo take the brunt of all defensive deployment and there is nobody to replace Peeke at the moment.

Peeke is easily replaceable. He sucks. Almost leading the bruins in turnover per 60 and he barely ever has the puck on his stick. When he does it’s a grenade.

He is probably one of the most easily replaceable players in the league. I just don’t think there’s an actual market for him if they were to move him.

 

[wintersej]

Marino is such an odd case, i think it's hard to use him as a "value" barometer. I wouldn't necessarily call him a "big stay at home RD". He's also been basically dumped twice now, for "cap purposes" to make room for another defenceman. Be that Petry or Pesce.

There's something funky with him. Where NHL teams don't seem to value him nearly the way that most fans seem to. So i wouldn't necessarily use that as the guide on how Carlo would be valued by the league.

Thanks for saying that, I wasn’t sure if I had Bruins colored glasses on with Marino but wanted to say everything you just said. My feeling in it as that he made such a good early impression as a potential two way D that folks internalization of what he really is is off kilter.

 

[quietbruinfan]

Carlo is tricky to gauge. I m not that fond of him as he is mistake prone because of slowness. However, he is a decent number 4 d man that plays pk and could be the second d on pp in a pinch. I would say his worth is a low-end second liner. Garland fits. Bruins might have to add a second or someone.

 

[dredeye]

The trade proposal would never happen from the Oilers side either for a variety of reasons. What it was meant to say was exactly what it did say, that the assertion that Nurse's deal is the worst in the league is not true. In fact it never was, though it is certainly no bargain either.

Sorry let me correct. One of the worst contracts in the league. Not the very worst. How would it not work for the Oilers? Too many useful pieces going to Edmonton?

 

[Fourier]

Sorry let me correct. One of the worst contracts in the league. Not the very worst. How would it not work for the Oilers? Too many useful pieces going to Edmonton?

Nurse has played great this year. At his best he is very close to his contract value, though without pp time his numbers would not be in the range to fully earn that contract. Realistically he is probably full value at $7.5-8M so it is pretty hard to see why a contract paying him less than $2M more than he is worth would be any where close to the worst in the league especially given that he plays in all situations. I think everyone sees his mistakes which tend to be highlight worthy, But what they don't see is that the vast majority of the time he does his job very well.

For all the flack he takes the team sees Nurse as one of the core leadership pieces. I actually doubt that the Oilers would even consider a trading Nurse for Carlo and Coyle straight up let alone add Savoie and a 1st for Frederic. Carlo is a piece I definitely think the Oilers would love to have. Coyle not so much. At his cap hit he would need to have a very significant role in the top 6 which he would not have in Edmonton. Frederic as a UFA would be a fine deadline add. But he is probably a pure rental.

Finally, Nurse has a full NMC and I don't see him waiving nor do I think they would ask him to do so.

 

[dredeye]

Nurse has played great this year. At his best he is very close to his contract value, though without pp time his numbers would not be in the range to fully earn that contract. Realistically he is probably full value at $7.5-8M so it is pretty hard to see why a contract paying him less than $2M more than he is worth would be any where close to the worst in the league especially given that he plays in all situations. I think everyone sees his mistakes which tend to be highlight worthy, But what they don't see is that the vast majority of the time he does his job very well.

For all the flack he takes the team sees Nurse as one of the core leadership pieces. I actually doubt that the Oilers would even consider a trading Nurse for Carlo and Coyle straight up let alone add Savoie and a 1st for Frederic. Carlo is a piece I definitely think the Oilers would love to have. Coyle not so much. At his cap hit he would need to have a very significant role in the top 6 which he would not have in Edmonton. Frederic as a UFA would be a fine deadline add. But he is probably a pure rental.

Finally, Nurse has a full NMC and I don't see him waiving nor do I think they would ask him to do so.

Again. Having 1 season where he's close to his contract value wouldn't have anyone clamouring to acquire him. He's not going anywhere regardless of how you or I feel so it's a moot point.

 

[quietbruinfan]

Thanks for saying that, I wasn’t sure if I had Bruins colored glasses on with Marino but wanted to say everything you just said. My feeling in it as that he made such a good early impression as a potential two way D that folks internalization of what he really is is off kilter.

Marino is GRZ with a little less quickness.