Proposal: Could a McDavid Lindros type of trade help the Oilers?

[Kshahdoo]

Aho, Svechnikov, Slavin for McDavid...

 

[FerrisRox]

If you watched Lindros play and don't agree that that tournament established him as one of the worlds best players, I'm not sure what else to say to you. Agree to disagree I guess and I suspect most fans who watched him play would agree with me.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and you're entitled to believe that everyone else agrees with you if makes you feel better. What you are not entitled to are your own facts, and I'm afraid, in this case, the facts don't do anything to help your argument.

In Eric Lindros' rookie season - a year you claim he was established as one of the best players in the entire league - the leading goal scorers had more goals then Eric had points.

Mind you, Eric missed some games (shocking!) but Mogilny and Selanne scored more goals than Lindros had points.

In fact, the leading point getter - Mario Lemieux, who missed one more game than Lindros did had more than double the amount of points Lindros did.

Kind of difficult to suggest that Lindros is one of the best players in the league when he's being doubled point-wise by a contemporary who played less games. I mean, you can make that claim, but it's awfully hard to take you seriously.

Pat Lafontaine outscored Lindros by 73 points. Adam Oates outscored him by 67 points. Six other guys outscored him by at least fifty points.

Even lower-tier guys like Joe Juneau and Craig Janey had him beat by over 25 points. Lindros had a solid rookie season, but he wasn't realistically in the conversation of being one of the best players in the league, not by anyone credible at least.

How's this for context: Your namesake, Gary Nylund, played his final NHL season during Lindros' rookie year and Nylund had two points. Nylund was closer to Eric Lindros in scoring that year than Lindros was to the league's leading scorer.

Think about that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and you're entitled to believe that everyone else agrees with you if makes you feel better. What you are not entitled to are your own facts, and I'm afraid, in this case, the facts don't do anything to help your argument.

In Eric Lindros' rookie season - a year you claim he was established as one of the best players in the entire league - the leading goal scorers had more goals then Eric had points.

Mind you, Eric missed some games (shocking!) but Mogilny and Selanne scored more goals than Lindros had points.

In fact, the leading point getter - Mario Lemieux, who missed one more game than Lindros did had more than double the amount of points Lindros did.

Kind of difficult to suggest that Lindros is one of the best players in the league when he's being doubled point-wise by a contemporary who played less games. I mean, you can make that claim, but it's awfully hard to take you seriously.

Pat Lafontaine outscored Lindros by 73 points. Adam Oates outscored him by 67 points. Six other guys outscored him by at least fifty points.

Even lower-tier guys like Joe Juneau and Craig Janey had him beat by over 25 points. Lindros had a solid rookie season, but he wasn't realistically in the conversation of being one of the best players in the league, not by anyone credible at least.

How's this for context: Your namesake, Gary Nylund, played his final NHL season during Lindros' rookie year and Nylund had two points. Nylund was closer to Eric Lindros in scoring that year than Lindros was to the league's leading scorer.

Think about that.

You keep talking about point totals which is disingenuous considering Lindros missed a quarter of the season. I mean come on now, you mention guys like Juneau and Janney, you're not seriously suggesting that those guys were better than Lindros because they scored more points are you? If you want to rank players simply by sorting by points, hey more power to you but I think there's a lot more to it then that.

Lindros was picked for Team Canada over the likes of Yzerman and Sacik among others. There were plenty of raised eyebrows at the time but Lindros played so well that nobody was criticizing the pick when the tournament was over.

Sorry but your claim that:

"he wasn't realistically in the conversation of being one of the best players in the league, not by anyone credible at least."

is just wrong. I'll start with Mike Keenan (who picked and coached Team Canada), not saying that he's infallible but I'd say he has a fair bit of credibility.

And BTW, I guess you've forgotten your original post that I was responding to (what was being discussed was the value of Lindros BEFORE he was traded so his rookie season is irrelevant).

 

[FerrisRox]

You keep talking about point totals which is disingenuous considering Lindros missed a quarter of the season. I mean come on now, you mention guys like Juneau and Janney, you're not seriously suggesting that those guys were better than Lindros because they scored more points are you? If you want to rank players simply by sorting by points, hey more power to you but I think there's a lot more to it then that.

Lindros was picked for Team Canada over the likes of Yzerman and Sacik among others. There were plenty of raised eyebrows at the time but Lindros played so well that nobody was criticizing the pick when the tournament was over.

Sorry but your claim that:

"he wasn't realistically in the conversation of being one of the best players in the league, not by anyone credible at least."

is just wrong. I'll start with Mike Keenan (who picked and coached Team Canada), not saying that he's infallible but I'd say he has a fair bit of credibility.

And BTW, I guess you've forgotten your original post that I was responding to (what was being discussed was the value of Lindros BEFORE he was traded so his rookie season is irrelevant).

You seem content to put all your eggs in the basket of him making Team Canada.

Again, you are certainly entitled to do so. But how come when he actually played in the NHL a year later, he was nowhere to be seen among the best in the game? Even if you factor in the games he missed, he didn't produce anywhere close to the laundry list of guys ahead of him.

Sure scoring isn't everything, but it's certainly a very major thing for a first line centre, and it when it came to first line centres that season there were at least a dozen guys better than him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You seem content to put all your eggs in the basket of him making Team Canada.

Again, you are certainly entitled to do so. But how come when he actually played in the NHL a year later, he was nowhere to be seen among the best in the game? Even if you factor in the games he missed, he didn't produce anywhere close to the laundry list of guys ahead of him.

Sure scoring isn't everything, but it's certainly a very major thing for a first line centre, and it when it came to first line centres that season there were at least a dozen guys better than him.

Generally speaking, yes I'm more than comfortable trusting the opinion of guys who are in charge of picking Team Canada over sorting by points. And as I said before, I thought Lindros played great for Team Canada and IIRC, pretty much everybody else did too so the eye test of thousands of people confirmed their opinion.

As you're fond of saying, you're entitled to your opinion but if you'd take guys like Janney and Juneau over Lindros then I'll stick to my opinion - you're way off. You can count points all you like but I'm confident in saying that if at any point during his rookie year, some GM tried to trade for Lindros offering up Janney or Juneau in return they would have been laughed out of the league.

And again, what was being discussed was the value of Lindros when he was traded so his rookie year doesn't enter into it. At least I assume that you're aware that Lindros was traded before his rookie season, if not then I suggest you look it up.

 

[10Ducky10]

Trouba, Ehlers, Sami Niku, Vesalainen and our 2019 1st.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

Honestly yes. I don't see Edmonton doing well with McDavid and Draisatl getting paid this much. They're just too stupid a team. They barely capitalized when they were cheap.

I like Buffalo trade because if they can keep McDavid, Eichel and Dahlin there is obvious dynasty potential.

 

[ManofSteel55]

If you recall, Lindros was one of the best players in the league, and he got traded for Steve Duchesne, Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci, Chris Simon, two draft picks, and $15 million. Colorado soon won the cup after that trade.
What would be an equivalent trade for McDavid that would be tempting for both the Oilers and the team acquiring him?

The simple answer - not if Chiarelli is the one making the trade.

 

[vanarchy]

Marner/Nylander/Liliurgen/1st for Mcdavid in the offseason. Who says no

Edmonton. lol

 

[jonlin]

The only team that Oilers could do this trade with is Colorado.

Colorado gets:

-McDavid 12,5M
-Lucic 6M
-Spooner 4M

Oilers get:

MacKinnon 6,3M
Rantanen 9,5M ( probable)
Landeskog 5,57M

And Colorado declines even though getting the best player in the World. Oilers would instantly be one of the best teams in the league.

Landeskog, MacKinnon, Rantanen, Draisaitl, RNH. Thats a very good forward-core.

 

[FerrisRox]

Generally speaking, yes I'm more than comfortable trusting the opinion of guys who are in charge of picking Team Canada over sorting by points. And as I said before, I thought Lindros played great for Team Canada and IIRC, pretty much everybody else did too so the eye test of thousands of people confirmed their opinion.

As you're fond of saying, you're entitled to your opinion but if you'd take guys like Janney and Juneau over Lindros then I'll stick to my opinion - you're way off. You can count points all you like but I'm confident in saying that if at any point during his rookie year, some GM tried to trade for Lindros offering up Janney or Juneau in return they would have been laughed out of the league.

And again, what was being discussed was the value of Lindros when he was traded so his rookie year doesn't enter into it. At least I assume that you're aware that Lindros was traded before his rookie season, if not then I suggest you look it up.

This is getting sad.

Ignore everything else latch on to Craig Janney and Joe Juneau, two guys I mentioned as having outscored him by a large margin.

By all means, focus on those two names and leave out every other thing mentioned and pretend somehow the argument is that Joe Juneau was a better player.

I'm embarrassed for you.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

A Lindros type deal can't happen anymore because of the salary cap. It would make zero sense for either side. If the talent and draft picks received in return become good, the Oilers couldn't afford to keep them all anyway, and the team trading those assets would struggle to build a team around McDavid without the young talent and draft picks it took to acquire him. Long story short, the only way McDavid is going anywhere is either when his contract expires or if he flat out refuses to play until he's traded.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is getting sad.

Ignore everything else latch on to Craig Janney and Joe Juneau, two guys I mentioned as having outscored him by a large margin.

By all means, focus on those two names and leave out every other thing mentioned and pretend somehow the argument is that Joe Juneau was a better player.

I'm embarrassed for you.

You want to talk about focusing, OK then. How many times does this have to be repeated before you get it?

What was being discussed was the value of Lindros when he was traded so his rookie year doesn't enter into it.

Which part are you having a hard time with? Do try to focus now, I'd hate for you to embarrass yourself.

 

[Gary Nylund]

A Lindros type deal can't happen anymore because of the salary cap. It would make zero sense for either side. If the talent and draft picks received in return become good, the Oilers couldn't afford to keep them all anyway, and the team trading those assets would struggle to build a team around McDavid without the young talent and draft picks it took to acquire him. Long story short, the only way McDavid is going anywhere is either when his contract expires or if he flat out refuses to play until he's traded.

Exactly this. The cap makes trading so much more complicated than it used to be, even if both sides are interested in making something happen.

 

[WillNyTheGreedyGuy]

How many more seasons can Mcdavid take with the Oilers? Granted he is making good money, he still wants to win.

 

[krt88nc]

This could only work if you got back 2 established players on modest deals, two or more really good, including one super high level prospect plus picks.

For example: not a proposal...
#97 plus Lucic with say (20% retained) to Avs for Rants, Landeskog, Mekar, Compher, a couple of first (not Sens), and another prospect. And doesn’t seem enough.

However, I just don’t think it can work today.

 

[WillNyTheGreedyGuy]

Oh man if Leafs had Mcdavid, Tavares, and Marner it would be a sick Ontario trio. Don Cherry would be proud of the "good ol' Ontario boys".

 

[Skin Tape Session]

If you recall, Lindros was one of the best players in the league, and he got traded for Steve Duchesne, Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci, Chris Simon, two draft picks, and $15 million. Colorado soon won the cup after that trade.
What would be an equivalent trade for McDavid that would be tempting for both the Oilers and the team acquiring him?

Nothing will help the oilers with that management. Mcdavid REALLY REALLy needs to find away to get out of there. Imagine him at 25 STILL stuck there. The look on his face when drafted. I feel so bad for him.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Exactly this. The cap makes trading so much more complicated than it used to be, even if both sides are interested in making something happen.

The closest thing to a realistic deal for McDavid right now is if the Leafs offered Marner and Matthews and if the Avs offered MacKinnon and Landeskog, but even the first deal isn't possible because the Oilers don't have the space to re-sign both players. The Leafs would have to take either Lucic or Sekera to get the money to work.
To be honest, McDavid for Marner and Matthews could be beneficial to both teams if the Oilers could get the money to work.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The closest thing to a realistic deal for McDavid right now is if the Leafs offered Marner and Matthews and if the Avs offered MacKinnon and Landeskog, but even the first deal isn't possible because the Oilers don't have the space to re-sign both players. The Leafs would have to take either Lucic or Sekera to get the money to work.
To be honest, McDavid for Marner and Matthews could be beneficial to both teams if the Oilers could get the money to work.

As good as McDavid is, I don't think this trade would be beneficial to the Leafs at all. It's almost impossible to put together a trade for McDavid that both teams would be happy with, probably best to just leave it at that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nothing will help the oilers with that management. Mcdavid REALLY REALLy needs to find away to get out of there. Imagine him at 25 STILL stuck there. The look on his face when drafted. I feel so bad for him.

Agree 100% with all this. I feel bad for him too and it is an absolutely terrible situation for him and for the league. The thought of McDavid just wasting away in EDM is perhaps the worst thing that's happened to the NHL since Bobby Orr was forced into retirement.

 

[Stephen]

It would only help it it yielded a player similar to McDavid that the other team wasn't aware they were giving away.

Like if it went Marner, Nylander Gardiner, Andersen, Johnsson, 2x 1st round picks and $30 million, and then Marner outscored McDavid over their careers.

 

[Yakupov64]

I think buffalo would be in the best position to pull anything like this off. They're full of young high potential players, have just the right big names like eichel or dahlin, and 3 1sts.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

As good as McDavid is, I don't think this trade would be beneficial to the Leafs at all. It's almost impossible to put together a trade for McDavid that both teams would be happy with, probably best to just leave it at that.

it is easier to build a competitive team when you only have 3 highly paid forwards rather than 4. Plus, Rielly is going to get paid soon too.

 

[Stephen]

The closest thing to a realistic deal for McDavid right now is if the Leafs offered Marner and Matthews and if the Avs offered MacKinnon and Landeskog, but even the first deal isn't possible because the Oilers don't have the space to re-sign both players. The Leafs would have to take either Lucic or Sekera to get the money to work.
To be honest, McDavid for Marner and Matthews could be beneficial to both teams if the Oilers could get the money to work.

I don't think it would be all that beneficial to Toronto. There's a 5 point separation between McDavid and Marner, and that's not exactly a big enough gap to give up Matthews to obtain. The sum of Matthews and Marner on two separate lines look like they'll outweigh whatever individual superiority McDavid brings.