OT: Coronavirus XXIX: Is This Even the Right Damn Roman Numeral? New Measures to Curb Stomp COVID?

[yukoner88]

CBC? Biased. Lorne Gunther, who would eat Kenney's turds and tell you its good chocolate? Good solid reporter.

 

[nabob]

Alright, let’s get this out of the way. You didn’t bother reading the article.

You just saw that it’s CBC. So you just went on the biased route (which is funny, because in this post you talk about crying on social media, which is what you’re doing here). You saw that it painted the UCP in a bad light. So you decided nah, it’s an opinion piece so it doesn’t count.

Anything more to add? Cause until you actually sit down, and read the f***ing thing I think there’s nothing more to add.

I even quoted sections of the article...yeah I read it

the part where they say their expert who gives his opinion is a staunch critic...yeah no he can’t be biased. He’s only dedicated himself to being critical of the UCP.

Then there’s this piece that I’ll quote for the 3rd time
“Taken together, they reveal how Premier Jason Kenney, Shandro and other cabinet ministers often micromanaged the actions of already overwhelmed civil servants; sometimes overruled their expert advice; and pushed an early relaunch strategy that seemed more focused on the economy and avoiding the appearance of curtailing Albertans' freedoms than enforcing compliance to safeguard public health.”


That’s the “journalist” opinion. That’s the entire basis of the article. It’s an opinion piece.

clearly you don’t care to read replies and instead immediately accuse people of being Rebel Media morons. No real discussion just labeling. Then when we don’t agree you just say “clearly you didn’t read it”...what a weird thing to say.

 

[nabob]

Gunter's article has facts in them like I said:

-11 out of 50,000 that died had 0 comorbidities
-92% of the deaths had 2 or more of comorbidities
-250 deaths occurred in the first 15,000 infections

like I said, facts

Pffft those are clearly biased facts...

Furry reminds me of my favorite Biden quote

“we choose truth over facts!”

imagine saying an article that is just an explanation of stats, laid out in a very easy to read way, and claiming it’s an opinion piece. Then taking another article that presents zero stats and is based off the opinion of a staunch critic and calling it fact based journalism...

 

[Little Fury]

Gunter's article has facts in them like I said:

-11 out of 50,000 that died had 0 comorbidities
-92% of the deaths had 92% of comorbidities
-250 deaths occurred in the first 15,000 infections

like I said, facts

Cherry-picked to support a narrative that implies people who died of COVID were already deathly ill. When there's like 350,000 Albertans living with diabetes and more than half of men over 50 have hypertension. Also funny how he doesn't mention the fact that about one in four people who need to be hospitalized and one in six who are in the ICU do not have any pre-existing medical conditions.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Cherry-picked to support a narrative that implies people who died of COVID were already deathly ill. When there's like 350,000 Albertans living with diabetes and more than half of men over 50 have hypertension. Also funny how he doesn't mention the fact that about one in four people who need to be hospitalized and one in six who are in the ICU do not have any pre-existing medical conditions.

you think the average 82 year old with three of the following are living a great life?

Diabetes, Hypertension, COPD, Cancer, Dementia, Stroke, Liver cirrhosis, Cardiovascular diseases (including IHD and Congestive heart failure), Chronic kidney disease, and Immuno-deficiency.
76.3% of people died with all 3 of these in them
it's not a narrative, it's a fact

 

[nabob]

I mean I'm admittedly not the sharpest cookie in the drawer, but it just seems to me that the numbers don't equate to the measures being enacted.

That said, obviously there are countries where extremely heavy lockdowns occured and I don't think multiple governments would go to those lengths without good reason due to the economic repercussions. But it just doesn't seem to add up for me.

Like, we're a year in and have a recorded 1.6 million deaths globally, and it's absolutely tragic and I'm very sorry for anyone here who has been hit by covid related losses, I really am. But they estimate 3.1 million CHILDREN die each year due to undernutrition,and somewhere around 9 to 10 million in all. Due to hunger. Which is something we CAN change. But lock the world down because of covid and it's 98% recovery rate? If this thing had a mortality rate like ebola or something it would make total sense to me.

I understand part of it is to ensure medical facilities don't become swamped. I really do get it, but it just seems off to me.

I think that’s the biggest concern. Which I totally support.

 

[bone]

yep 11 deaths out of 50,000 cases were people who didn’t have previously diagnosed serious health conditions. How many people walk around every day without a diagnosed and documented health condition? Yet some people are demanding complete lockdowns for months for everyone like you said.

Considering hypertension is in most fatal cases in Alberta, a person in his thirties possibly didn't even know he had hypertension. In my thirties I don't think I had a physical until the later part once I had kids. Also before having kids I was never sick so never went to a doctor. Fortunately, now that I go, my blood pressure is great, but I could have been a ticking timebomb in my late 20s and early 30s and barely have known it.

 

[Oilers in NS]

How u guys making out there? Halifax could be going into lockdown if numbers don't go down. They tore down our Atlantic Bubble which was very successful. It spreads here quick when someone comes in on planes from Toronto. We still have low numbers. 16 province wide yesterday but 35 the day before.
I read an article today that we could be in a line up behind countries like Thailand , India, and Indonesia. Trudeau dragged his feet and did not secure contracts quick enough. Sounds like December 12 they will start in the States

 

[Little Fury]

you think the average 82 year old with three of the following are living a great life?

Diabetes, Hypertension, COPD, Cancer, Dementia, Stroke, Liver cirrhosis, Cardiovascular diseases (including IHD and Congestive heart failure), Chronic kidney disease, and Immuno-deficiency.
76.3% of people died with all 3 of these in them
it's not a narrative, it's a fact

Because some of those conditions are extremely common? Like 50% of men over 50 have hypertension. At the end of the day it was COVID that killed them.

I see you also ignored the hospitalization stats I provided to once again focus on mortality, which is only part if the picture.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

If they have 20 or so recordings, why aren't they published in the article so we can make our own decisions. Not a big fan of taking the CBC's "word for it" on this one.

Just for the record i would feel the same way if it was any other news media outlet. For example, when the whole kamikaze thing about Kenney's campaign came about the audio was available in the story.

Lukaszuk Leaks Audio Detailing "Kamikaze" Campaign Against Brian Jean - HighRiverOnline.com

 

[bone]

Didn’t take long for you to label everyone as extreme right lol. Just shows you’re not interested in a real conversation. Never read or watched rebel media, I find it quite pathetic, almost as bad as some CBC “journalism”. Instead of addressing the points you just pull out old reliable


Did you miss yesterday morning where the CBC was still claiming Kenney was MIA because he didn’t give one of their shows an exclusive Q&A period only hours after doing a couple hour long press conference that included extensive questions?

Now the twitter feeds are criticizing him thinking he is at work ill yesterday after capturing a coughing fit after a drink of water went down the wrong pipe.

Policy wise I'm much more left leaning, and have long criticised Kenney, but when I saw that, I just had to shake my head. A lot of us that lean left need to do a better job keeping it to real issues as it isn't helping perceptions at all.

 

[LaGu]

yep 11 deaths out of 50,000 cases were people who didn’t have previously diagnosed serious health conditions. How many people walk around every day without a diagnosed and documented health condition? Yet some people are demanding complete lockdowns for months for everyone like you said.

Well I don't know the source of this info (I mean outside of that article), but I would argue that a lot of these underlying issues are not serious, and not something that you can simplify in the manner you do. People can live with many of these without big problems. Heck I think that the number of people with commodities in the US alone is like 60%, with 40% with two or more.

There is also another factor that come into play here, which is (at least on most of the charts I have seen) a lot of the underlying issues that patients have died from were actually caused by covid19. This is the gun shot comparison, there was a medic showing death certificates from people dying from a gun shot wound. On each one there were several "underlying" causes, like internal bleeding, liver laceration, etc. The problem with our layman's interpretations of this is that we don't realise that many of the causes are/were actually related to what the bullet did to the body.

I mean looking at CDC's website, the most common comorbidity is pneumonia (40+%), second most common is respiratory failure (30+%), those two are comorbidities at the time of death, but they were caused by covid19.

Then we have high blood pressure, comorbidity in 25% of deaths, which would not fall under the category caused by covid19. But then again about 25% of the population actually suffers from it.

edit: relevant to what @DecadeofDarkness posted as well

edit: this is what I mean by playing the numbers game, find a stat you (not literally you) like and show something which will WOW the reader and go with it. The context is left out though, and it is very important.

 

[bone]

then you have a good example of the CBC who is supposed to be non partisan being exactly the opposite, which is an incredibly common daily thing in Alberta. It is interesting how the media is nothing more than a propaganda machine.

I believe what's being described in the article could be real, but if they have these recordings, leak at least one to build some credibility.

 

[oobga]

If they have 20 or so recordings, why aren't they published in the article so we can make our own decisions. Not a big fan of taking the CBC's "word for it" on this one.

Just for the record i would feel the same way if it was any other news media outlet. For example, when the whole kamikaze thing about Kenney's campaign came about the audio was available in the story.

Lukaszuk Leaks Audio Detailing "Kamikaze" Campaign Against Brian Jean - HighRiverOnline.com

Wonder if 1 voice in the recording is notably louder than the others Hence revealing the leaker.

Definitely a very incomplete report on a recording though. Usually you give a larger summary with things that actually relate to what has occurred to try to build some credibility if you're not leaking the raw audio.

 

[nabob]

Considering hypertension is in most fatal cases in Alberta, a person in his thirties possibly didn't even know he had hypertension. In my thirties I don't think I had a physical until the later part once I had kids. Also before having kids I was never sick so never went to a doctor. Fortunately, now that I go, my blood pressure is great, but I could have been a ticking timebomb in my late 20s and early 30s and barely have known it.

Totally. To be honest I think it’s incredibly common that people don’t know that their body isn’t right like that.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Because some of those conditions are extremely common? Like 50% of men over 50 have hypertension. At the end of the day it was COVID that killed them.

it's common to have 3 different comorbidities in them at the age time?
no one is dropping dead from just hypertension lol

I see you also ignored the hospitalization stats I provided to once again focus on mortality, which is only part if the picture.

yeah, hospitalizations are going up and there are restrictions to hopefully slow the spread
what does that have to do with that article?

 

[Little Fury]

If they have 20 or so recordings, why aren't they published in the article so we can make our own decisions. Not a big fan of taking the CBC's "word for it" on this one.

Just for the record i would feel the same way if it was any other news media outlet. For example, when the whole kamikaze thing about Kenney's campaign came about the audio was available in the story.

Lukaszuk Leaks Audio Detailing "Kamikaze" Campaign Against Brian Jean - HighRiverOnline.com

If they promised anonymity to the source and the recordings could compromise that person's identity, then they have no obligation to release the tapes to the public.

 

[nabob]

I believe what's being described in the article could be real, but if they have these recordings, leak at least one to build some credibility.

It could be real, I wouldn’t doubt that during a pandemic there’s tension and people disagree. That people get upset when one persons recommendation is used instead of their own.
I’d be shocked if that wasn’t elevated in every level of government over the last year.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

If they promised anonymity to the source and the recordings could compromise that person's identity, then they have no obligation to release the tapes to the public.

Then the story lacks severe credibly and is difficult to believe as truthful.

 

[nabob]

If they promised anonymity to the source and the recordings could compromise that person's identity, then they have no obligation to release the tapes to the public.

Then it’s nothing more than a narrative with zero facts to back it up.

 

[harpoon]

I get it, this forum is nothing more than a Rebel News comment section, but you are blatantly ignoring the facts of the article.

Rebel news comment section ... pffft. Why is it that every time you bother to stop by you are always disparaging this board and those who post here? It’s quite tiresome.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Well I don't know the source of this info (I mean outside of that article), but I would argue that a lot of these underlying issues are not serious, and not something that you can simplify in the manner you do. People can live with many of these without big problems. Heck I think that the number of people with commodities in the US alone is like 60%, with 40% with two or more.

There is also another factor that come into play here, which is (at least on most of the charts I have seen) a lot of the underlying issues that patients have died from were actually caused by covid19. This is the gun shot comparison, there was a medic showing death certificates from people dying from a gun shot wound. On each one there were several "underlying" causes, like internal bleeding, liver laceration, etc. The problem with our layman's interpretations of this is that we don't realise that many of the causes are/were actually related to what the bullet did to the body.

I mean looking at CDC's website, the most common comorbidity is pneumonia (40+%), second most common is respiratory failure (30+%), those two are comorbidities at the time of death, but they were caused by covid19.

Then we have high blood pressure, comorbidity in 25% of deaths, which would not fall under the category caused by covid19. But then again about 25% of the population actually suffers from it.

edit: relevant to what @DecadeofDarkness posted as well

edit: this is what I mean by playing the numbers game, find a stat you (not literally you) like and show something which will WOW the reader and go with it. The context is left out though, and it is very important.

go here for all the Alberta comorbidities stats
COVID-19 Alberta statistics

 

[nabob]

Then the story lacks severe credibly and is difficult to believe as truthful.

Used to be that media outlets wouldn’t go to press with articles like that. Now it’s common place because there’s zero standards anymore. All you need is he said, she said and people claim it’s facts. Then another article can be full of statistics and facts and the same people will call it a narrative

 

[Little Fury]

it's common to have 3 different comorbidities in them at the age time?

It's certainly not rare to have two or more medical conditions and still have a good quality of life. Also, as mentioned above, some of those comorbidities may have been caused by the virus itself.

yeah, hospitalizations are going up and there are restrictions to hopefully slow the spread
what does that have to do with that article?

Because the point of the article is to claim the pandemic is no big deal and to paint people who are calling for stronger measures as hysterical ninnies. Talking about hospitalizations and ICU risks would compromise that narrative so Gunther just leaves it out.

 

[nabob]

go here for all the Alberta comorbidities stats
COVID-19 Alberta statistics

Just another “narrative”.