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OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19): Part VI (NO RIOT/PROTEST DISCUSSION)

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I got ice cream today. It was nice. I can go to the stores again without feeling like I'm gonna die. Just a little slice of normal. Of course, I still have my mask and my one glove when I go inside places. The one glove is for touching things, the bare hand is to touch my face if I have to. You can use that, just make sure you put me in the works cited. ;)

As @Gardner McKay alluded to down in his neck of the woods, spirits are definitely up and I think we're going to be able to manage this thing.

Things won't be completely normal for awhile, but if we make the best of it and we're smart, we may not have to go back to full shutdown.
 
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chosen said:
And my position is open it up but make it mandatory to wear a mask when out in public. If someone wishes to participate in openings, and refuses to wear a mask, it is the ultimate in selfishness and should be illegal during a pandemic.

I can't come up with a more effective strategy than to open up the economy and protect the public at the same time.

Those that won't wear masks while claiming it's an issue of personal freedom are full of it.

It's less of an imposition than lots of other things we as a society already accept.

Taxes, different kinds of required insurance and licenses, etc,.

Your right to swing your fist stops at my face. Your right to to not wear a mask when it will lead to other people dying is the exact same thing.
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I don't know about requiring it out in public. I say that for two reasons: 1) It's really probably not necessary outdoors and 2) more importantly, minorities will be disproportionately targeted with that. And I'm not here to politicize anything or to accuse any particular person of anything. In general, it's a trend. You can look at the evidence with just about any law.

That being said, yes, they should be worn indoors in public at all times, and I think most establishments will take of that with in-house rules.
 
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chosen said:
Groups of people are ignoring social distancing. What happens when the streets become crowded, again?

People who talk loudly are a great risk to others.

Can Coronavirus Spread By Talking and Breathing? What Experts Know

Since we know how transmissable this is, what is the reason to not wear masks when in public?
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Restaurants, bars, gyms with packed classes, schools and what not are open in Stockholm. The R value is still way below 1.

I saw the report of how one gym class resulted in 100 cases in NYT. Stockholm isnt NYT.

But from what I can tell — I definitely am sceptical that NYC would see any kind of surge in cases even if it started to ease restrictions 3-4 weeks ago. Granted that NYC is unique, all curves everywhere hit hard are basically following the same pattern no matter what you do and what you don’t do.

It is obvious that immunity is having a massive impact. It’s obvious that even just the smallest common sense measures, like people not going to work with a high fever, washing more hands, is having a very big impact alone.

There is obviously a very distinct feeling that Covid is following the normal flu seasonality pattern. Which of course is to be expected (but something we haven’t known for sure). We spend more time inside. It’s proven that a virus fall to the ground faster in warmer weather.

From my POV, it feels like the sooner NYC open up the better.
 
You responded to me without addressing my point.

As I have said many times, I have no trouble with opening up. Again, what is wrong with requiring masks in public when we know for a fact that it will prevent transmission?
 
chosen said:
Groups of people are ignoring social distancing. What happens when the streets become crowded, again?

People who talk loudly are a great risk to others.

Can Coronavirus Spread By Talking and Breathing? What Experts Know

Since we know how transmissable this is, what is the reason to not wear masks when in public?
Click to expand...

There isn't a good reason I can think of to voluntarily not wear a mask. There are plenty of good reasons, one of which @Machinehead alluded to, as to why requiring masks being worn would be an awful idea.
 
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chosen said:
Groups of people are ignoring social distancing. What happens when the streets become crowded, again?
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people might be, people might be, people might be . . . Understandably, so many articles make mention of what “might” be happening. Nobody knows so everybody’s opinion and speculation appears to be equally credible.

Make no mistake, i think these people are nuts, the virus has likely slowed down due to both the weather and distancing with a likely bomb to go off in mid-autumn. But who knows at this point? Let’s be honest, we live in the world of the boy who cried wolf with this media. How often do they sensationalize news only to learn later the reality didn’t equal the hype? We certainly see this in Politics, Weather, Hollywood, etc and guess what? If there is no penalty then i guess nothing is wrong. Sensationalism one day has become as acceptable as dismissing the next.

i think we’re going to see the majority drop their guard as the weeks go by. The virus will subtly spread and those who get real careful come Oct/Nov will decrease their risk while others will likely get blindsided and we’ll go back into lockdown for a bit.

I hope i’m wrong and we go back to normal. Of course, normal will be the media sensationalizing the POTUS race. At least we’ll have the Rangers while our football teams battle for that top 5 pick and Jeff Wilpon sits alone at Citifield playing Candy Crush.

cheers
 
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NYSPORTS said:
people might be, people might be, people might be . . . Understandably, so many articles make mention of what “might” be happening. Nobody knows so everybody’s opinion and speculation appears to be equally credible.

Make no mistake, i think these people are nuts, the virus has slowed down due to both the weather and distancing with a likely bomb to go off in mid-autumn. But who knows at this point? Let’s be honest, we live in the world of the boy who cried wolf with this media. How often do they sensationalize news only to learn later the reality didn’t equal the hype? We certainly see this in Politics, Weather, Hollywood, etc and guess what? If there is no penalty then i guess nothing is wrong. Sensationalism one day has become as acceptable as dismissing the next.

i think we’re going to see the majority drop their guard as the weeks go by. The virus will subtly spread and those who get real careful come Oct/Nov will decrease their risk while others will likely get blindsided and we’ll go back into lockdown for a bit.

I hope i’m wrong and we go back to normal. Of course, normal will be the media sensationalizing the POTUS race. At least we’ll have the Rangers while our football teams battle for that top 5 pick and Jeff Wilpon sits alone at Citifield playing Candy Crush.

cheers
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What are the reasons to not wear a mask in public?

Do you really believe the virus will not come back like every virologist tells us?

The only ones saying it won't come back during the fall are those saying it will magically disappear. Haven't we all learned that lesson, yet?
 
sbjnyc said:
What is the source for your statistic that a third of all deaths are from NY State nursing homes?
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One is the radio that just reported that. Another is the NY Times, which also stated that a full one third of all US deaths are from nursing homes (workers or residents). The percentages vary by state. In Minnesota, the percentage of deaths due to Covid is attributed to 80 percent in nursing homes.
 
Ola said:
What is open in NYC now? Can you visit a restaurant? Can an office be open?
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Nothing is open. You can get takeout and curbside pick up. And frankly I am not really sure of what Cuomo's Phase I does for NYC anyway. The construction never really stopped and manufacturing is not really going to do anything for the City.

Di Blasio's beaches stupidity is simply mind boggling.
 
Ola said:
I saw the report of how one gym class resulted in 100 cases in NYT. Stockholm isnt NYT.

But from what I can tell — I definitely am sceptical that NYC would see any kind of surge in cases even if it started to ease restrictions 3-4 weeks ago. Granted that NYC is unique, all curves everywhere hit hard are basically following the same pattern no matter what you do and what you don’t do.

It is obvious that immunity is having a massive impact. It’s obvious that even just the smallest common sense measures, like people not going to work with a high fever, washing more hands, is having a very big impact alone.

There is obviously a very distinct feeling that Covid is following the normal flu seasonality pattern. Which of course is to be expected (but something we haven’t known for sure). We spend more time inside. It’s proven that a virus fall to the ground faster in warmer weather.

From my POV, it feels like the sooner NYC open up the better.
Click to expand...
I think the article regarding the gym was from Korea.

I agree about the sooner the better. I think that you need to throw people a bone, and not just show that your way to end a lockdown is to simply have more lockdown.

The news that comes out is also having a negative effect on people's thinking from what I see. Now, apparently the CDC revised itself again and is saying that it is hard to catch the virus from surface contacts. Cuomo walking back his comments about only virtual school. Another piece of stupidity. There are hard decisions that need to be made. But some things you can't mess with. Young kids need to be back at day care. Kids need to be able to go back to real school and have their activities, including sports. At some point, people need to make decisions that they feel are right for them and not wait around for the government to tell them how they should act. That comes with people deciding what risk they are willing to take and what they are not.
 
Gardner McKay said:
There isn't a good reason I can think of to voluntarily not wear a mask. There are plenty of good reasons, one of which @Machinehead alluded to, as to why requiring masks being worn would be an awful idea.
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I do not disagree, but there are some situations in which making wearing a mask a requirement just does not work. But sure, there are plenty of other situations in which it certainly work.
 
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chosen said:
Groups of people are ignoring social distancing. What happens when the streets become crowded, again?

People who talk loudly are a great risk to others.

Can Coronavirus Spread By Talking and Breathing? What Experts Know

Since we know how transmissable this is, what is the reason to not wear masks when in public?
Click to expand...

Where I live grocery stores it's pretty mandatory that people wear masks. I saw a lady a couple days ago with a baby enter one without a mask and they turned her right around. Convenience stores on the other hand--lots of people going without. I think some of that is like neighborhood stuff---people really know each other and let shit slide.

There are people who think it is b.s. or that they're impervious. My main issue is let's not have a second wave--keeping your distance and wearing a mask is respecting other people's lives and the better we are at doing that the sooner things can get back somewhat to normal--when people are out in public there is always a chance they've gotten the virus as well a chance they are asymptomatic and can pass it along to others without knowing. So when people crowd others and don't take precaution they're not respecting those others.

As far as Cuomo he's made some mistakes--no politician really got this right before March. Some callously spread misinformation and/or lied. There has really never been a national level response and that's been a huge blunder on our part that has made things worse. I'm not sure what other governors are doing but I think Cuomo is doing a good job preparing our state in case there is another wave. NYS is way ahead of every other state on testing. We've got the private and public hospitals more than less on the same page and we've got the tracing thing figured out in at least 6 regions and seem to be getting there in the other 4. The hospitals seem logistically more ready to handle a second wave as well. To me there are three stages to this 1) the pre-pandemic period that everyone screwed up 2) the pandemic period that NYS has gotten its act finally together and 3) the post-pandemic period which is still in the future and should be about restoring the lives of ordinary people over the designs of already wealthy people or entities. I have some doubts about how that's going to work out but we still have to get there.
 
True Blue said:
Nothing is open. You can get takeout and curbside pick up. And frankly I am not really sure of what Cuomo's Phase I does for NYC anyway. The construction never really stopped and manufacturing is not really going to do anything for the City.

Di Blasio's beaches stupidity is simply mind boggling.
Click to expand...

Phase 2 is where things are going to get very interesting in NYC. I do not believe De Blasio has any idea how to approach this thing and pursuant to the metrics he is not going to be able to fall back on the statewide quarantine order forever.

The tracer program is the one metric the dashboard is not providing solid statistics for and like someone else said earlier in this thread I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up holding things up. I do not get the impression De Blasio is in much of a hurry to open back up or that his policies/procedures will make much sense once we do get there. His beaches approach is par for the course with everything he does. Shift responsibility everywhere else but his own table. He hasn't had to do much here with Cuomo taking the lead and I don't have much confidence in his abilities once that comes to an end.
 
Ignoring it, then telling us it's a hoax, and wasting time was like throwing gasoline on a fire.
 
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Lias Andersson said:
Phase 2 is where things are going to get very interesting in NYC. I do not believe De Blasio has any idea how to approach this thing and pursuant to the metrics he is not going to be able to fall back on the statewide quarantine order forever.

The tracer program is the one metric the dashboard is not providing solid statistics for and like someone else said earlier in this thread I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up holding things up. I do not get the impression De Blasio is in much of a hurry to open back up or that his policies/procedures will make much sense once we do get there. His beaches approach is par for the course with everything he does. Shift responsibility everywhere else but his own table. He hasn't had to do much here with Cuomo taking the lead and I don't have much confidence in his abilities once that comes to an end.
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Deblowsio has been horrible for the city since his tenure, and his pandemic approach is going to be the final nail in the coffin with his leadership.

I’m only a frequent visitor, like on the weekends when I hit the bars or go to a Rangers games. I truly feel for the folks who live and/or work in the city and wish you all the best of luck when things start to open.
 
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Lias Andersson said:
Phase 2 is where things are going to get very interesting in NYC. I do not believe De Blasio has any idea how to approach this thing and pursuant to the metrics he is not going to be able to fall back on the statewide quarantine order forever.

The tracer program is the one metric the dashboard is not providing solid statistics for and like someone else said earlier in this thread I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up holding things up. I do not get the impression De Blasio is in much of a hurry to open back up or that his policies/procedures will make much sense once we do get there. His beaches approach is par for the course with everything he does. Shift responsibility everywhere else but his own table. He hasn't had to do much here with Cuomo taking the lead and I don't have much confidence in his abilities once that comes to an end.
Click to expand...
De Blasio is an utter moron who has no idea about anything. Like I said, his latest beach fiasco is just an underscore here. As is virtual summer school.

Like I said, to me Phase 1 in NYC is just another way to keep the lockdown going. Phase 1 does nothing for NYC. The construction work never stopped. There is no manufacturing or agriculture here. NYC is the purchasers of the wholesale trade, not originators of it. And when nothing is open, NYC is certainly not buying wholesale. Opening retail for curbside pick up is also pretty stupid. You cannot get into a store to see something, try it on or otherwise look at it. So why would anyone do it and not just order online?

Phase 2 is the real reopening of NYC. And that is where De Blasio will completely fail. Because as you correctly point out, he is not really in that much of a hurry. In this, he is no different that Cuomo in that neither of them are in much of a hurry. The only hope is that Cuomo realizes the necessity of opening up NYC and steps in. Or, what can also happen, and this would be interesting is that the federal government steps in and overcomes the state government's orders as they view that a continued lockdown now is having an effect on people's constitutional rights. That would be the only way that they can step in.

They need to achieve Phase 4 in time to get schools to be open in September. Constantly extending lockdowns is no way to get that done.
 
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chosen said:
What are the reasons to not wear a mask in public?

Do you really believe the virus will not come back like every virologist tells us?

The only ones saying it won't come back during the fall are those saying it will magically disappear. Haven't we all learned that lesson, yet?
Click to expand...

did you read my response?
 
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