OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19): Part VI (NO RIOT/PROTEST DISCUSSION)

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I was in downtown Leesburg (VA) to pick up food on Sunday. Decent amount of people walking around the streets. Very few masks, which was discouraging. All the food service workers were masked and gloved.

Being quarantined sucks, but I'm glad my wife and I still have our jobs. And my house and yard have never looked better.

I live in NOVA these days myself. Took a road trip out to Front Royal just to get out of the house last weekend. There is a "destination" burger place out there that we planned to get takeout from, but when we pulled into the parking lot, I was immediately turned off by the large, non-mask wearing crowd.

This was definitely a live action example of how rural and urban areas are handling this differently. There was a definite red/blue dichotomy going on as well. I legitimately don't know who is right at this point, but I do in some way envy the cavalier attitude we witnessed. I am personally completely sketched out by public spaces and don't see that changing any time soon.
 
I live in NOVA these days myself. Took a road trip out to Front Royal just to get out of the house last weekend. There is a "destination" burger place out there that we planned to get takeout from, but when we pulled into the parking lot, I was immediately turned off by the large, non-mask wearing crowd.

This was definitely a live action example of how rural and urban areas are handling this differently. There was a definite red/blue dichotomy going on as well. I legitimately don't know who is right at this point, but I do in some way envy the cavalier attitude we witnessed. I am personally completely sketched out by public spaces and don't see that changing any time soon.
The people that moved in across from me, they're kind of "rural" and definitely red. And then they eventually recruited their friends to move in next door, and have befriended all the other guys in the area who drive enormous trucks and who piss off the majority of the neighborhood ripping ATVs down the street at 10:30 at night. :laugh: I don't really see eye to eye with that crowd on much, but they are pretty nice people, very friendly and welcoming and all that.

Anyway, they get together--sometime 10 or so of them--and they all have their kids. I try to keep my almost-5-year-old inside because I feel bad, she wants to go play. But their parents--one is a DC cop, another is a private physical therapist who has been working, one woman's husband is a nurse, etc. It just seems like a bad idea to go mingle. But, they've been doing it for weeks, and haven't had any problems that anyone is aware of. I firmly believe their behavior is irresponsible, but what am I going to do? They're very much a "let me live my own life" crowd and unless one of them ends up in the hospital, nothing is going to change. And again--as far as they know, they're all fine.

I also have to be extra careful as I'm dealing with my recently-widowed mother with underlying conditions who is getting increasingly assertive about coming to see us/having me and my daughter come down. It all sucks.
 
Well you obviously haven't read the book. Graeber is not exactly an unknown either. He conducted 100's of interviews with people who reached out to him talking about their working lives and the frustrations stemming from. He admitted to being short on solutions and even to having reservations about UBI but he also saw positives. For instance it gives everyone from the homeless on up a starting point to work from.
I didn't read the book. I didn't argue about what he said or if it's right. My comment is that US companies have been downsizing their workforce for decades and the jobs they kept have value according to those companies and largely do not agree with the author. How exactly does he define a "bullshit job" anyway?
 
I didn't read the book. I didn't argue about what he said or if it's right. My comment is that US companies have been downsizing their workforce for decades and the jobs they kept have value according to those companies and largely do not agree with the author. How exactly does he define a "bullshit job" anyway?

Since you asked;

Chapter 1--What is a bullshit job? (has the following headings) Why a mafia hit man is not a good example of a bullshit job/on the importance of the subjective element, and also, why that those who believe they have bullshit jobs are generally correct/on the common misconception that bullshit jobs are confined largely to the public sector/why hairdressers are a poor example of a bullshit job/on the difference between partly bullshit jobs, mostly bullshit jobs, and purely and entirely bullshit jobs.

Chapter 2--What sort of bullshit jobs are there? (has the following headings) The five major varieties of bullshit jobs/1. what flunkies do/ 2. what goons do/ 3. what duct tapers do/ 4. what box tickers do/ 5. what taskmasters do/ on complex multiform bullshit jobs/ a word on second order bullshit jobs/ A final note, and a brief return to the question: Is it possible to have a bullshit job and not know it?

Chapter 3--Why do those in bullshit jobs regularly report themselves unhappy? [on spiritual violence, part 1] (has the following headings) about one young man apparently handed a sinecure who nonetheless found himself unable to handle the situation/ concerning the experience of falseness and purposelessness at the core of bullshit jobs, and the importance now felt of conveying the experience of falseness and purposelessness to youth/ why many of our fundamental assumptions on human motivation appear to be incorrect/ a brief excursus on the history of make-work, and particularly of the concept of buy other people's time/ concerning the clash between the morality of time and natural work rhythms, and the resentment it creates.

Chapter 4--What is is like to have a bullshit job? [on spiritual violence, part 2] (has the following headings) why having a bullshit job is not always necessarily that bad/ on the misery of ambiguity and forced pretense/ on the misery of not being a cause/ on the misery of not being entitled to one's misery/ on the misery of knowing that one is doing harm/ coda: on the effects of bullshit jobs on human creativity, and on why attempts to assert oneself creatively or politically against pointless employment might be considered a form of spiritual warfare.

Chapter 5--Why are bullshit jobs proliferating? (under the following headings) A brief excursus on causality and nature of sociological explanation/sundry notes on the role of government in creating and maintaining bullshit jobs/concerning some false explanations for the rise of bullshit jobs/ why the financial industry might be considered a paradigm for bullshit job creation/on some ways in which the current form of managerial feudalism resembles classical feudalism, and other ways in which it does not/ how managerial feudalism manifests itself in the creative industries through the endless multiplication of intermediary executive ranks/ conclusion, with a brief return to the question of three levels of causation.

Chapter 6--Why do we as a society not object to the growth of pointless employment? (under the following headings) On the impossibility of developing an absolute measure of value/ how most people in contemporary society do accept the notion of a social value that can be distinguished from economic value, even if it is very difficult to pin down what it is/ concerning the inverse relationship between the social value of work and the amount of money one is likely to be paid for it/ on the theological roots of our attitudes toward labor/ on the origins of the northern European notion of paid labor as necessary to the full formation of an adult human being/ how, with the advent of Capitalism, work came to be seen in many quarters either as a means of social reform or ultimately as a virtue in its own right, and how laborers countered by embracing the labor theory of value/ concerning the key flaw in the labor theory of value as it became popular in the nineteenth century, and how the owners of Capital exploited that flaw/ how, over the course of the twentieth century, work came to be increasingly valued primarily as a form of discipline and self sacrifice.

Chapter 7--What are the political effects of bullshit jobs, and is there anything that can be done about this situation? (under the following headings) on how the political culture under managerial feudalism comes to be maintained by a balance of resentments/ how the current crisis over robotization relates to the larger problem of bullshit jobs/ on the political ramifications of bullshitization and consequent decline of productivity inthe caring sector as it relates to the possibility of a revolt of the caring classes/ on universal basic income as an example of a program that might begin to detach work from compensation and put an end to the dilemmas described in this book.
 
If the IMHE projections hold up, they're fine, yeah.

It's a warm state where a lot of the big draws are outdoors and they never really had the massive outbreak like in the Northeast or the West Coast.

A lot of the vitriol against Florida has been about the beaches being open but the beaches are fine. The virus can't swim and sand is an absolutely brutal surface to live on: it's hot and granular. The other issue with Florida has been spring breakers going down there who then, in turn, potentially take the virus back to states that are not Florida and I understand the argument there.
Yeah, I mean comparing FL (where I reside) to NYC or New Orleans is a big reach.

DO we have crowds? Yes of course at times (mostly on I4... local joke... sorry) but anyone who's been on a subway or to Bourbon St. on ANY night of the week knows what crowds REALLY are and how it would be impossible to NOT expose thousands in one walk/trip

It's not even close.

Desantis is as much of a moron as others in power in this country... don't praise him for having fewer people to govern.
 
So my parents went and got the antibody test. Mom came back positive, dad came back negative. Weird....
Any way you look at it this virus is a big mystery. It could be that only some asymptomatic are contagious. My theory is that superspreaders are responsible for the vast majority of infections, like 1% infects 80% of cases type of thing.

But its also possible that your mom had a false positive or your dad either had a false negative or has very low levels of antibodies
 
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I live in NOVA these days myself. Took a road trip out to Front Royal just to get out of the house last weekend. There is a "destination" burger place out there that we planned to get takeout from, but when we pulled into the parking lot, I was immediately turned off by the large, non-mask wearing crowd.

This was definitely a live action example of how rural and urban areas are handling this differently. There was a definite red/blue dichotomy going on as well. I legitimately don't know who is right at this point, but I do in some way envy the cavalier attitude we witnessed. I am personally completely sketched out by public spaces and don't see that changing any time soon.

The sad part is they are going to pay the price. Those non mask wearing people are really stupid and ignorant, but I don't wish this disease on any of them or their families. When the rates start spiking badly (which they will guaranteed) either now or the second wave in the fall, hopefully they will wise up and do some very BASIC common sense things like wear protective masks, sanitize hands, and avoid contact like handshakes.

I'm actually pretty optimistic about NYC, people have been scared straight. Just 2 months ago people would have felt silly about wearing masks in the subway. People would normally look down upon the random Asian person wearing one. Now nobody goes anywhere without a mask in public, young old, trendy, out of touch, EVERYONE. All the new infections will eventually be coming from out of state people interacting with NY'ers
 
The sad part is they are going to pay the price. Those non mask wearing people are really stupid and ignorant, but I don't wish this disease on any of them or their families. When the rates start spiking badly (which they will guaranteed) either now or the second wave in the fall, hopefully they will wise up and do some very BASIC common sense things like wear protective masks, sanitize hands, and avoid contact like handshakes.

Stupid people don't learn and will not become smart. They'll blame someone else if they get sick.
 
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Yup, all Trump's fault. Good job on that one.

Please tell me where I said he did everything correct. Your response to me saying NYC leadership f***ed up is that Trump did. Those are not mutually exclusive, they can both f*** up. The mayor of SF was telling people to not go out and gather in crowds on the same day as DeBlasio telling everyone they have nothing to worry about.

Infection rates in those two cities tell me exactly what I already knew about the mayor and the people he appoints. They are clueless and they do not care about the people they are supposed to. Dude couldn't handle a 3 inch snow storm in November correctly, so I'm not surprised at the incompetence that comes from city hall.

He said everyone coming into America was being tested and quarantined, if necessary. Just another fairy tale.

Yeah, lots of blame to go around, but without the leader stopping the totally open faucet, not much else mattered, afterwards.
 
Since you asked;

Chapter 1--What is a bullshit job? (has the following headings) Why a mafia hit man is not a good example of a bullshit job/on the importance of the subjective element, and also, why that those who believe they have bullshit jobs are generally correct/on the common misconception that bullshit jobs are confined largely to the public sector/why hairdressers are a poor example of a bullshit job/on the difference between partly bullshit jobs, mostly bullshit jobs, and purely and entirely bullshit jobs.

Chapter 2--What sort of bullshit jobs are there? (has the following headings) The five major varieties of bullshit jobs/1. what flunkies do/ 2. what goons do/ 3. what duct tapers do/ 4. what box tickers do/ 5. what taskmasters do/ on complex multiform bullshit jobs/ a word on second order bullshit jobs/ A final note, and a brief return to the question: Is it possible to have a bullshit job and not know it?

Chapter 3--Why do those in bullshit jobs regularly report themselves unhappy? [on spiritual violence, part 1] (has the following headings) about one young man apparently handed a sinecure who nonetheless found himself unable to handle the situation/ concerning the experience of falseness and purposelessness at the core of bullshit jobs, and the importance now felt of conveying the experience of falseness and purposelessness to youth/ why many of our fundamental assumptions on human motivation appear to be incorrect/ a brief excursus on the history of make-work, and particularly of the concept of buy other people's time/ concerning the clash between the morality of time and natural work rhythms, and the resentment it creates.

Chapter 4--What is is like to have a bullshit job? [on spiritual violence, part 2] (has the following headings) why having a bullshit job is not always necessarily that bad/ on the misery of ambiguity and forced pretense/ on the misery of not being a cause/ on the misery of not being entitled to one's misery/ on the misery of knowing that one is doing harm/ coda: on the effects of bullshit jobs on human creativity, and on why attempts to assert oneself creatively or politically against pointless employment might be considered a form of spiritual warfare.

Chapter 5--Why are bullshit jobs proliferating? (under the following headings) A brief excursus on causality and nature of sociological explanation/sundry notes on the role of government in creating and maintaining bullshit jobs/concerning some false explanations for the rise of bullshit jobs/ why the financial industry might be considered a paradigm for bullshit job creation/on some ways in which the current form of managerial feudalism resembles classical feudalism, and other ways in which it does not/ how managerial feudalism manifests itself in the creative industries through the endless multiplication of intermediary executive ranks/ conclusion, with a brief return to the question of three levels of causation.

Chapter 6--Why do we as a society not object to the growth of pointless employment? (under the following headings) On the impossibility of developing an absolute measure of value/ how most people in contemporary society do accept the notion of a social value that can be distinguished from economic value, even if it is very difficult to pin down what it is/ concerning the inverse relationship between the social value of work and the amount of money one is likely to be paid for it/ on the theological roots of our attitudes toward labor/ on the origins of the northern European notion of paid labor as necessary to the full formation of an adult human being/ how, with the advent of Capitalism, work came to be seen in many quarters either as a means of social reform or ultimately as a virtue in its own right, and how laborers countered by embracing the labor theory of value/ concerning the key flaw in the labor theory of value as it became popular in the nineteenth century, and how the owners of Capital exploited that flaw/ how, over the course of the twentieth century, work came to be increasingly valued primarily as a form of discipline and self sacrifice.

Chapter 7--What are the political effects of bullshit jobs, and is there anything that can be done about this situation? (under the following headings) on how the political culture under managerial feudalism comes to be maintained by a balance of resentments/ how the current crisis over robotization relates to the larger problem of bullshit jobs/ on the political ramifications of bullshitization and consequent decline of productivity inthe caring sector as it relates to the possibility of a revolt of the caring classes/ on universal basic income as an example of a program that might begin to detach work from compensation and put an end to the dilemmas described in this book.
Sounds like he doesn't have much of a definition other than "I don't like what they do so it must be bullshit so I'll call them goons, flunkies, etc. to avoid giving one". He gives an example of a friend who was in an unsuccessful rock band who he seems to think is not a bullshit job since he is obviously brilliant and made some people happy. That person eventually became a corporate lawyer who felt it was a meaningless job. Do you think corporate lawyers are meaningless? What does a rock band actually do for you if you don't value their product enough to pay for it? Corporate lawyers are certainly valued by their companies for a variety of reasons. In a perfect world, everyone could just follow their passion, whether it be a rock star, hockey player, astronaut, etc. The idea that we should all be free to do what we want as technology automates our jobs ignores the basic fact that someone has to build and maintain the automatons and have rules in place in case they become sentient and try to take over the world.
 
Sounds like he doesn't have much of a definition other than "I don't like what they do so it must be bullshit so I'll call them goons, flunkies, etc. to avoid giving one". He gives an example of a friend who was in an unsuccessful rock band who he seems to think is not a bullshit job since he is obviously brilliant and made some people happy. That person eventually became a corporate lawyer who felt it was a meaningless job. Do you think corporate lawyers are meaningless? What does a rock band actually do for you if you don't value their product enough to pay for it? Corporate lawyers are certainly valued by their companies for a variety of reasons. In a perfect world, everyone could just follow their passion, whether it be a rock star, hockey player, astronaut, etc. The idea that we should all be free to do what we want as technology automates our jobs ignores the basic fact that someone has to build and maintain the automatons and have rules in place in case they become sentient and try to take over the world.

Look I'm not going to read the book for you. You asked---we'll end our discussion of this here because I don't really think you're interested anyway. Maybe we can talk about hockey next time.
 
Any way you look at it this virus is a big mystery. It could be that only some asymptomatic are contagious. My theory is that superspreaders are responsible for the vast majority of infections, like 1% infects 80% of cases type of thing.

But its also possible that your mom had a false positive or your dad either had a false negative or has very low levels of antibodies
I'd beware of the f***er that walks around the office coughing with his mouth open that infects the whole office.
 
I read his original article.

Okay. I like the idea of UBI and responded to someone other than yourself who was talking about social security at an earlier age because it brought that to mind....but I don't want to get into a major political brouhaha over this. You can like what I say about it or not. A few days ago some unnamed moderator here edited one of my posts. He/she then warned me that 'you've been a good poster here for 15 years, blah, blah, blah' but somehow or other in their opinion I'd crossed over some line on this coronavirus topic. There really wasn't much of an explanation what or how....so there you go. Perhaps I disturbed someone and they were complaining about me. I don't know. If that helps to explain some reticence on my part you have an explanation now.
 
I'd beware of the f***er that walks around the office coughing with his mouth open that infects the whole office.
By that view, you should never leave your house ever again.

Are you a parent? Because then how can you ever send your children to school ever again? They should be home schooled from birth and not have any other kids to talk to. How can you let your daughter ever date anyone ever again?
 
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