OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Part III

[NYSPORTS]

It is hard to anticipate how many ventilators will be needed in any given hospital at anytime. You need to have some ready to be sent as needed. This hasn’t peaked here at all. Far from it.

ty but the Governor who is barking out about this need to be in the know. People are dying today, right now, b/c they do not have a ventilator while NY has not tapped their reserves yet is demanding they need more. Saving for a rainy day? It’s raining. Can he anticipate how many will die from lack of oxygen b/c he’s sitting on reserves?

 

[eco's bones]

NYC is the epicenter in the United States and the rest of the state is pretty hard hit as well. The question is why is the federal govt. not more forthcoming when the need is there and when the data shows the need to prepare? It's more inaction really--you put out fires as you can---you don't let them burn out of control. It's like they know there is a huge fire started but they don't send enough fire trucks.

 

[Khelvan]

he’s never said that. I don’t believe he’s even said how many are in use as of now. He has reserves he hasn’t tapped, complains about 400 being sent, etc.

I’d like to hear - we have currently x number of ventilators, we anticipate needing 35k by X and maybe more. Take the reserves and use them. Those reserves can them be replenished.

Yes, in fact he has said this. Here are his exact words:
Gov. Cuomo says New York needs ventilators now, help from GM and Ford 'does us no good'

Edit: Read the article. Trump is the reason the reserves can't be used:
"He called on President Donald Trump to use the Defense Production Act to secure more medical equipment and asked Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar to release the 20,000 ventilators in the U.S. stockpile to New York.
“How can you be in a situation where you have New Yorkers possibly dying because they can’t get a ventilator, but a federal agency is saying, ‘I’m going to leave the ventilators in the stockpile,’” Cuomo said. “I mean, have we really come to that point?”"

 

[SA16]

Honestly even the death rate isn't an accurate indicator at this point because reports out of medical institutions from multiple states is that often for people fighting long illnesses, say cancer, and they contract and die from COVID-19 complications, cause of death is being marked as the underlying condition (e.g. cancer). It's clear that many of these people are not being tested, even after death, for COVID-19 even with their symptoms, and there have been some troubling anecdotes from the medical community that suggest even known infections aren't necessarily listed as cause of death when there's an underlying illness.

I don't know if this is standard medical practice or something unique to this situation, but reports are that deaths are currently being under-reported in the USA because of this.

Coronavirus: Doctors At Hospitals Say COVID-19 Death Numbers Aren’t Consistent
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/27/those-covid-19-death-toll-figures-are-incomplete/

I agree with that though. If tests are still limited then why would you waste a test on someone who is already dead rather than using it on someone who may need it?

 

[Baby Duck Homme]

Those numbers really don't tell you much if the testing wasn't constant throughout the time period.

They show you the increasing extent as to verified spread. I wish everyone could be tested. We should have adopted the WHO test for consistency. Instead we developed faulty tests that only initially caused more confusion and cost us time in identifying early cases. It’s community spread now. If anything those numbers are way way too low. People are spreading it unknowingly still because they don’t k ow any better. This is growing.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Yes, in fact he has said this. Here are his exact words:
Gov. Cuomo says New York needs ventilators now, help from GM and Ford 'does us no good'

Edit: Read the article. Trump is the reason the reserves can't be used:
"
He called on President Donald Trump to use the Defense Production Act to secure more medical equipment and asked Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar to release the 20,000 ventilators in the U.S. stockpile to New York.
“How can you be in a situation where you have New Yorkers possibly dying because they can’t get a ventilator, but a federal agency is saying, ‘I’m going to leave the ventilators in the stockpile,’” Cuomo said. “I mean, have we really come to that point?”"

lol, and he is sitting on his reserves while people are dying in NY. Maybe he can get more and store them away too.

“Yes they’re in a stockpile because that’s where they’re supposed to be because we don’t need them yet. We need them for the apex. The apex isn’t here so we’re gathering them in the stockpile so when we need them they will be there,” Cuomo said.

 

[GordonGecko]

ty but the Governor who is barking out about this need to be in the know. People are dying today, right now, b/c they do not have a ventilator while NY has not tapped their reserves yet is demanding they need more. Saving for a rainy day? It’s raining. Can he anticipate how many will die from lack of oxygen b/c he’s sitting on reserves?

Governor is just following the (exponential) curve. By the time there's an acute need it's too late, people are going to die. These ventilators need to be there when the need comes.

Rainy day? WTF

 

[GordonGecko]

I agree with that though. If tests are still limited then why would you waste a test on someone who is already dead rather than using it on someone who may need it?

They should keep a blood sample on ice for all deceased and process for SARS-CoV-2 once the test becomes widely available to anyone

 

[Khelvan]

lol, and he is sitting on his reserves in NY. Maybe he can get more and store them away too.

Read the article. Governor Cuomo cannot use the reserves in New York because the federal government has not released them.

New Yorkers are dying because the federal government of the United States will not ALLOW New York to use its own stockpiles.

 

[Baby Duck Homme]

ty but the Governor who is barking out about this need to be in the know. People are dying today, right now, b/c they do not have a ventilator while NY has not tapped their reserves yet is demanding they need more. Saving for a rainy day? It’s raining. Can he anticipate how many will die from lack of oxygen b/c he’s sitting on reserves?

. Hospital administrators are making tough calls everyday. I don’t think anyone would be denied a respirator unless there wasn’t one available onsite. I wish there was enough to go around. Hell we could have started mass producing ventilate 2 months ago as this was all inevitable. I trust medical experts. The problem is it is set up right now where hospitals and even states are all competing for resources that they all know will quickly become inadequate.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Read the article. Governor Cuomo cannot use the reserves in New York because the federal government has not released them.

New Yorkers are dying because the federal government of the United States will not ALLOW New York to use its own stockpiles.

and we come full circle. Nobody knows how many are on ventilators, nobody knows how many people we have lost due to lack of ventilators, etc. All we know is the Governor is preaching 35K. Awesome

For all we know, he might need 100K ventilators b/c he hasn’t mentioned how many are in use, people we lost sue to lack of ventilators, etc.

 

[Baby Duck Homme]

and we come full circle. Nobody knows how many are on ventilators, nobody knows how many people we have lost due to lack of ventilators, etc. All we know is the Governor is preaching 35K. Awesome

For all we know, he might need 100K ventilators b/c he hasn’t mentioned how many are in use, people we lost sue to lack of ventilators, etc.

Once we know the virulence and contagiousness of the virus (which we do know now) the spread could be anticipated and modeled. That is real science. I trust the data from scientists more than the hopeful estimations of politicians who will not listen to scientists and that often contradicts them.

 

[Gardner McKay]

The House has passed the stimulus.

 

[Gardner McKay]

The House has passed the stimulus.

House gives final passage to $2 trillion coronavirus stimulus bill

 

[NYSPORTS]

. Hospital administrators are making tough calls everyday. I don’t think anyone would be denied a respirator unless there wasn’t one available onsite. I wish there was enough to go around. Hell we could have started mass producing ventilate 2 months ago as this was all inevitable. I trust medical experts. The problem is it is set up right now where hospitals and even states are all competing for resources that they all know will quickly become inadequate.

happened at both Mt Siani and Montifiorre. Would be responsible for us to know exactly how many are on site, how many we lost due to no respirators.

My gosh, in Manhattan alone we have approx 25,000 who have caught the virus. Any chance we can learn how many are on respirators? Good lord, get your staff to call each hospital to find out. Shouldn’t take too long. Then we have an idea.

 

[NYR Viper]

Why didn't Cuomo go out and stockpile masks and increase the number of beds knowing this was a possibility? At what point should the individual states, which accrue tax money, take some responsibility to readying themselves for things such as this?

 

[Krams]

Read the article. Governor Cuomo cannot use the reserves in New York because the federal government has not released them.

New Yorkers are dying because the federal government of the United States will not ALLOW New York to use its own stockpiles.

I did not gather from the article that the federal government has any authority over the State's own reserves, but rather that Cuomo is asking them to release more ventilators from the federal reserves to the state which is a separate issue. That article is from Tuesday and referenced 400 ventilators that the federal government sent to NY's reserves, and as per Cuomo's press conference today, the Feds have shipped an additional 4,000 which is being held in the state's reserves in case it is needed (which at this point is pretty much guaranteed.)

 

[Baby Duck Homme]

happened at both Mt Siani and Montifiorre. Would be responsible for us to know exactly how many are on site, how many we lost due to no respirators.

My gosh, in Manhattan alone we have approx 25,000 who have caught the virus. Any chance we can learn how many are on respirators? Good lord, get your staff to call each hospital to find out. Shouldn’t take too long. Then we have an idea.

The problem is people are on respirators until they recover or die. Imagine reaching capacity and respirators not becoming available. That is a crisis and then doctors must decide who is most deserving of respirators. That is life and death. This is happening right now in Italy and Spain. We are preparing for that eventuality here right now.

 

[Khelvan]

and we come full circle. Nobody knows how many are on ventilators, nobody knows how many people we have lost due to lack of ventilators, etc. All we know is the Governor is preaching 35K. Awesome

For all we know, he might need 100K ventilators b/c he hasn’t mentioned how many are in use, people we lost sue to lack of ventilators, etc.

Are you being serious right now? You think the governor of New York needs to justify to you asking for more ventilators that are kept in reserve for emergency?

Where do you think he pulled this number from?

Let's assume, for a moment, that it was a made up number. Do you think the reports out of Italy were lies? Do you think that people were NOT dying in their homes because there weren't enough ventilators?

There's no full circle here. This is a pandemic, there are reserves kept stockpiled for this type of crisis, the governor of New York is asking for them. You don't believe the state of New York has medical staff informing the governor of what he needs? He's just pulling this number out of his a**?

Edit: I misread the article, it is the US reserves in question, my apologies. My point still stands about him justifying the numbers.

 

[Khelvan]

I did not gather from the article that the federal government has any authority over the State's own reserves, but rather that Cuomo is asking them to release more ventilators from the federal reserves to the state which is a separate issue. That article is from Tuesday and referenced 400 ventilators that the federal government sent to NY's reserves, and as per Cuomo's press conference today, the Feds have shipped an additional 4,000 which is being held in the state's reserves in case it is needed (which at this point is pretty much guaranteed.)

You're correct, I misread. There is no stockpile for New York State, only for the whole of the US. Which means it is even more important for the DPA to be used, and it is currently not.

Edit: I finally understand. Trump questioned the need for 30,000 ventilators. I had no idea why anyone in their right mind would be questioning Cuomo on this, but now I get it. This is what the United States has come to.

 

[Krams]

You're correct, I misread. There is no stockpile for New York State, only for the whole of the US. Which means it is even more important for the DPA to be used, and it is currently not.

Well, there is a state stockpile. Maybe that isn't the correct word for it, but that's semantics. The ventilators that the state has purchased, in addition to the 4,400 that the federal government has sent, are sitting in storage within NYS for when they are needed.

This really is just a matter of the eventually needing more ventilators than has been sent, and I am hopeful more ventilators will be released soon, as I believe I heard Peter Navarro confirm when he was on CNN Wednesday.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

He clearly states it’s a virus. He also has degrees far beyond a bachelors degree. You are free to disregard at your own risk. I don’t know why you wouldn’t be open to learning more about how this is so dangerous. It is in all our best interest that we recognize the threat and take precautions. The virus does not care what you think about it.

Apologies, for some reason in my head i was thinking he said VIRUS and not FLU. My mistake.

 

[True Blue]

We have states bidding against each other over needed supplies. Price gouging is punished at local level.

Read the below article. Trump can use the DPA to mass produce equipment and supplies. This has been done on the past for much less serious crises. He has mentioned he might do it a few times. He hasn’t. Why? I don’t know.

New York's ordeal could be America's future (opinion) - CNN

Anything written by CNN regarding Trump is almost guaranteed to make an effort into putting Trump into the worse possible light.

 

[True Blue]

You make/use a law that say that the factories have to do what you tell them to do. Of course picking up the bill is a given. I imagine the defense production act or whatever it is called is about that.

That is not exactly the way America functions. You are in effect having government take equity positions of other people's businesses.

 

[Ola]

That is not exactly the way America functions. You are in effect having government take equity positions of other people's businesses.

It’s how all countries function war time.

 

[Off Sides]

As of Friday morning, nearly 1,600 coronavirus patients in New York State were in intensive care units, most of them on ventilators, a 22 percent increase since Thursday morning. The state has projected that the need for I.C.U. beds will grow for at least several weeks.

Governor and Mayor Hit Back at Trump Over Ventilators for Coronavirus: Live Updates