Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part XII

[Bluelines]

No fraud will still be investigated, but some of the people just didn't pay attention to the rules, didn't fully understand the rules, or panicked and took whatever they could.

Fraud cases, ex. taking the money while still working.

Now I do think people who were self employed and claimed they didn't make any income took advantage of the program. "My business is and always was a break-even proposition, but I need CERB to fill in my shortfall? Cake and eating it too." Oh well, my taxes will help pay for these poor souls.

CERB recipients won't have to repay benefit if they applied based on gross income: Trudeau | Financial Post

We had and are having a hard time finding people who want to get out of bed and work, the CERB is/was impacting our ability to recruit people.

 

[Joey Hoser]

We had and are having a hard time finding people who want to get out of bed and work, the CERB is/was impacting our ability to recruit people.

CERB is like 18k a year after taxes. You're either trying to recruit bums or probably need to pay more.

 

[4thline]

CERB is like 18k a year after taxes. You're either trying to recruit bums or probably need to pay more.

I thought the same thing going in, but reality bore out a different story. Whether it's tragic state of financial literacy in this country, a lifestyle gap in a certain subset of the workforce, fear of Covid, or people waiting it out to return to their old job, I know of several solid employers that had trouble filling positions in the 17-22 range because people would rather take 11 to stay home.

 

[Bluelines]

ACA hurt a lot of people and there were a lot of flat out lies about that. Of course, that’s to be expected when insurance and Pharm companies write a bill.
For me and people with personal responsibility our systems works fine, although it can use some tweaking. My biggest fear is Medicare for all.

I'm not going to get to deep into this as there are political implications and we don't talk politics here. I do think it should be a right in every country to have "free" health care. You shouldn't die from a treatable aliment because you are poor or unemployed.

I believe that free healthcare has trickle down effects like less bankruptcies, lower crime rates, less poverty, better infant mortality rates and so on.

I get that Canada's health care is misrepresented down south but at the same time the cost of paying your own way is pricey. I have a friend from Nebraska she was telling me it costs her family a little over 4k USD per year for family Medicare coverage, this was before the ACA. That IMO is crazy expensive.

 

[ULF_55]

CERB is like 18k a year after taxes. You're either trying to recruit bums or probably need to pay more.

maybe get some retired folk if not much stress.

I would probably take CERB so I could look for a decent job if I was unemployed. My daughter qualified for CERB but didn't apply. She just fought to get as many hours as she could.

 

[Bluelines]

CERB is like 18k a year after taxes. You're either trying to recruit bums or probably need to pay more.

$24k to $32k per year is the base pay range, my top 25% people with bonuses will hit 60k to 65k. People would rather stay in bed as long as their bills are paid, they are willing to live hand to mouth.

 

[ULF_55]

$24k to $32k per year is the base pay range, my top 25% people with bonuses will hit 60k to 65k. People would rather stay in bed as long as their bills are paid, they are willing to live hand to mouth.

that isn't bad in certain parts of the country.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

always listen with interest how socialism is evil, and gets compared to Venezuela a third world country but not to the UK.

looks like about 40% of the USofA would be ok with a dictator.

There's socialism and then there's socialism. We already have UK level socialism. It's almost 50-50 socialism/capitalism. People are worried our system is drifting from the northern Europe model to, yes, Venezuela. Given the current political climate in this country, I think it's a legitimate concern. And that level of socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried.

 

[Pink Mist]

lmao Canada is nowhere near socialism. you're off your rocker if you think we have anything close to socialism. we don't even have a major socialist political party here

 

[Fogelhund]

Precautionary, or ???

 

[Big Muddy]

It’s illegal to refuse anyone in the ER
Yes you should get private insurance in the US, however it’s getting expensive under ACA.

ACA is for people that don't have Medicare or health insurance through their employer. ACA is used by about 23 million people, and most people in the U.S. that have health insurance are getting it from their employers or Medicare (if they are old enough). If you are really low income, then there is Medicaid.

I'm guessing that some Canadians don't understand that because the system in Canada is different than in the U.S.

Medicare only covers about 80% of medical costs. So, those on Medicare also have supplemental private insurance to cover the gaps (hence its often called medi-gap). By the time you add Medicare along with the medi-gap, its pretty expensive as well. The medi-gap bill which only covers the 20% of medical costs is often more expensive than the Medicare.

 

[Gabriel426]

I thought the same thing going in, but reality bore out a different story. Whether it's tragic state of financial literacy in this country, a lifestyle gap in a certain subset of the workforce, fear of Covid, or people waiting it out to return to their old job, I know of several solid employers that had trouble filling positions in the 17-22 range because people would rather take 11 to stay home.

Are they offering full time or part time?
I don’t think CERB is preventing people from going back to work

 

[Bluelines]

lmao Canada is nowhere near socialism. you're off your rocker if you think we have anything close to socialism. we don't even have a major socialist political party here

NDP would be your major Socialist party.

I do agree with you that we are no where near being anything close to Ven. Canada was ranked as the 5th most democratic country, ahead of the US, 25th, in terms of democratic rights according to the Economist (page 8).

https://pages.eiu.com/rs/753-RIQ-43...BTjU4SHB6bFFDQmNzWkRGb2ZcL0ZhMnJibUErRUlQIn0=

We should probably get off this political discussion, they never end well.

 

[Bluelines]

Are they offering full time or part time?
I don’t think CERB is preventing people from going back to work

We were offering Full time with OT available if you wanted the work. As a major employer I can tell you the work ethic that we had 40 years ago is not existent. the new generation will always take the path of least stress vs a little stress. my daughter took a pay cut of 17k just for less stress. I can't fault her for putting her mental health ahead of the all mighty dollar but at the same time, the days of go getters seems to have passed.

 

[Bluelines]

Precautionary, or ???

Everyone is asking why is Kerfoot in a locker-room by himself?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

$24k to $32k per year is the base pay range, my top 25% people with bonuses will hit 60k to 65k. People would rather stay in bed as long as their bills are paid, they are willing to live hand to mouth.

Not to mention the vibrant pay for cash industry. Could tell stories about seasonal workers at the rink mocking full time workers for having to go to work the next day, etc.

 

[Bluelines]

ACA is for people that don't have Medicare or health insurance through their employer. ACA is used by about 23 million people, and most people in the U.S. that have health insurance are getting it from their employers or Medicare (if they are old enough). If you are really low income, then there is Medicaid.

I'm guessing that some Canadians don't understand that because the system in Canada is different than in the U.S.

Medicare only covers about 80% of medical costs. So, those on Medicare also have supplemental private insurance to cover the gaps (hence its often called medi-gap). By the time you add Medicare along with the medi-gap, its pretty expensive as well. The medi-gap bill which only covers the 20% of medical costs is often more expensive than the Medicare.

I would fall in that bucket, thanks for the explanation.

 

[Nineteen67]

I'm not going to get to deep into this as there are political implications and we don't talk politics here. I do think it should be a right in every country to have "free" health care. You shouldn't die from a treatable aliment because you are poor or unemployed.

I believe that free healthcare has trickle down effects like less bankruptcies, lower crime rates, less poverty, better infant mortality rates and so on.

I get that Canada's health care is misrepresented down south but at the same time the cost of paying your own way is pricey. I have a friend from Nebraska she was telling me it costs her family a little over 4k USD per year for family Medicare coverage, this was before the ACA. That IMO is crazy expensive.

Yes. There currently are safety nets and perhaps they could be expanded, but nothing is free. You pay it in taxes.

I consider the premiums that we pay for the employees a benefit. I’d much rather do it this way than pay taxes and have the government run the health care. You know how it is in NB. If you live in Miramichi, Bathurst or Fredericton, for example, and you require heart surgery you have to go to St John. There are waiting lists for primary care, ambulance response times are catastrophic as are ER wait times. We have a lot of rural areas very similar to NB and I don’t wish that on them.

 

[Bluelines]

Yes. There currently are safety nets and perhaps they could be expanded, but nothing is free. You pay it in taxes.

I consider the premiums that we pay for the employees a benefit. I’d much rather do it this way than pay taxes and have the government run the health care. You know how it is in NB. If you live in Miramichi, Bathurst or Fredericton, for example, and you require heart surgery you have to go to St John. There are waiting lists for primary care, ambulance response times are catastrophic as are ER wait times. We have a lot of rural areas very similar to NB and I don’t wish that on them.

You're pretty much bang on with all you posted.

One thing that concerns me about the US system is 65% to 70% of all bankruptcies in the US is due to medical reasons. that alone is a good reason to go private. I think this recent Covid-19 pandemic really exposed the weakness of the US healthcare system to service everyone fairly. Rich people got cutting edge treatments and poor people didn't.

This is the real reason most Americans file for bankruptcy

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Precautionary, or ???

Ugh, I hope just precautionary.

 

[Big Muddy]

I would fall in that bucket, thanks for the explanation.

No worries. It took me awhile to understand it as well even after living in the U.S. for years. Its more complicated in the U.S.

I think it costs about the same to govern a (advanced, 1st world country) population and provide services to its citizens regardless of the kind of system. You can have lower taxes, but then people could be paying more for medical and education for example. I think costs falls into much narrower range regardless of the system than people suspect. Some American's have formulated their opinions on different medical systems by listening to the Rush Limbaugh's I suspect.

 

[ULF_55]

There's socialism and then there's socialism. We already have UK level socialism. It's almost 50-50 socialism/capitalism. People are worried our system is drifting from the northern Europe model to, yes, Venezuela. Given the current political climate in this country, I think it's a legitimate concern. And that level of socialism has failed everywhere it's been tried.

was in Venezuela in '78, it was a pit.

you could see the poverty from sea.

the theft of the money wasn't from socialism it was from corruption.

 

[IPS]

Precautionary, or ???

It's already happened to lots of teams already. Delusional to think the Leafs won't eventually have some games postponed.

 

[Big Muddy]

was in Venezuela in '78, it was a pit.

you could see the poverty from sea.

the theft of the money wasn't from socialism it was from corruption.

Dictators love to blur that line between socialism and dictatorship.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I'm not going to get to deep into this as there are political implications and we don't talk politics here. I do think it should be a right in every country to have "free" health care. You shouldn't die from a treatable aliment because you are poor or unemployed.

I believe that free healthcare has trickle down effects like less bankruptcies, lower crime rates, less poverty, better infant mortality rates and so on.

I get that Canada's health care is misrepresented down south but at the same time the cost of paying your own way is pricey. I have a friend from Nebraska she was telling me it costs her family a little over 4k USD per year for family Medicare coverage, this was before the ACA. That IMO is crazy expensive.

4K per yr really common man that is really bad health care ... I worked in US for a few years way back when and last couple with 2 young kids and a wife and I was paying over 1K per month for family health care while playing hockey for 75K per with Blue Cross and Blue Shield ... and my brother in law says he is paying over 2K per month for health care in Connecticut for husband wife and 2 adult daughters ... dude 4K is nothing and is not representative of what people are really paying for health care