Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part XI

[Pookie]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-jobs-december-2020-1.5867256

"It means a lot of people who were looking before or were working before have given up and aren't even participating in the labour force. They're not even trying to find replacement jobs. A lot of those people, I suspect, have just gone home and battened down the hatches."

Canada lost 63,000 jobs in December as COVID-19 cases rise
With that said, Porter notes that 2020 goes down as the worst year for Canada’s job market since 1982.

All the more reason to practice mitigation efforts to get this under control sooner.

If cases weren't rising, you think politicians would be imposing restrictions on voters?

 

[Sens]

All the more reason to practice mitigation efforts to get this under control sooner.

If cases weren't rising, you think politicians would be imposing restrictions on voters?

If it was as serious as you would have us believe the government would be providing sick days to essential workers.

Amazon warehouses are 24/7 and these people need to work to pay bills.

 

[Pookie]

If it was as serious as you would have us believe the government would be providing sick days to essential workers.

Amazon warehouses are 24/7 and these people need to work to pay bills.

For sure. That’s a government failure.

not sure where you want to go with that point.

 

[Sens]

For sure. That’s a government failure.

not sure where you want to go with that point.

curfews are stupid when Amazon (big box warehouses) are rolling 24/7

 

[Pookie]

curfews are stupid when Amazon (big box warehouses) are rolling 24/7

curfews won’t impact essential workers nor the flow of goods.

not sure at all where you are going with this.

 

[Sens]

curfews won’t impact essential workers nor the flow of goods.

not sure at all where you are going with this.

Exactly so those workers are going to bring it back home to the multigenerational homes in the GTA and it will continue to spread from there

Toronto and Peel have been in lockdown since November and continue to produce record numbers 60 days later

 

[Pookie]

Exactly so those workers are going to bring it back home to the multigenerational homes in the GTA and it will continue to spread from there

Toronto and Peel have been in lockdown since November and continue to produce record numbers 60 days later

Already discussed.

do you have a solution?

 

[PuckMagi]

She is frontline and comes into contact with covid at least a couple of times a week. She asked me for advice, I said as I say here I wouldn't take it. She is young, healthy. Unfortunately she also asked her brother who got a specialists degree in cell and molecular biology from u of T. He told her he wouldn't think twice and for her to do it. She took his advice... go figure.

I don't want the vaccine... but I also don't want covid. Tough decision if you have a job that exposes you to covid frequently.

 

[Scion]

For sure. That’s a government failure.

not sure where you want to go with that point.

It's very simple. You are appealing to authority to justify the lockdowns so he is pointing out government failures during the lockdown to demonstrate the flaw in your argument.

 

[Sens]

Already discussed.

do you have a solution?

The solution is to not put a counterproductive curfew in place where you’ve congested shopping hours 530-730 rush in the Canada Winter with the spread still exploding from warehouses

now the spread will hit big box/ grocery stores on the bottle neck

 

[Scion]

I don't want the vaccine... but I also don't want covid. Tough decision if you have a job that exposes you to covid frequently.

It's a lose lose proposition, and there really aren't any alternatives to taking the vaccine if you wish to return to your job and taking a long term view returning to society.

 

[Pookie]

It's very simple. You are appealing to authority to justify the lockdowns so he is pointing out government failures during the lockdown to demonstrate the inconsistency in your argument.

not quite.

I am following the health mandate set by the public health agencies. Masks. Wash. Distance. Avoid crowds. Don’t travel. Don’t combine households.

I am willing to hold government accountable for its failures to protect workers and its half assed approach in disease mitigation

if we both agree that paid sick days are an issue, let’s fight for that. It’s good for the workers and it supports best practice evidence based health measures.

Win-win

I actually think a major issue for Ford and other governments was trying to walk a line between “pro business” and tell people to stay home.

sounds good to both sides until you realize that the business is going under ....

AND.....

If the business went under due to an actual Covid restriction, the government provides financial relief.

instead, keep the doors open and go under “naturally” and Ford doesn’t have to pay a cent.

I think it’s one of the dirtiest moves he has done to hurt business and this needs to be called out and rectified.

there is a disease and the government is failing all of us in some way.

 

[Pookie]

The solution is to not put a counterproductive curfew in place where you’ve congested shopping hours 530-730 rush in the Canada Winter with the spread still exploding from warehouses

now the spread will hit big box/ grocery stores on the bottle neck

so do nothing?

 

[Scion]

The solution is to not put a counterproductive curfew in place where you’ve congested shopping hours 530-730 rush in the Canada Winter with the spread still exploding from warehouses

now the spread will hit big box/ grocery stores on the bottle neck

It also just doesn't make any sense. If I want to go out for a late drive or jog around the block to clear my head or get some fresh air I cannot because???? In what alternate reality are either of those actions a threat to the spread of the virus...

 

[Brown Dog]

She is frontline and comes into contact with covid at least a couple of times a week. She asked me for advice, I said as I say here I wouldn't take it. She is young, healthy. Unfortunately she also asked her brother who got a specialists degree in cell and molecular biology from u of T. He told her he wouldn't think twice and for her to do it. She took his advice... go figure.

Smart girl!

 

[SlpLessInMuskoka18]

Florida doctor dies 2 weeks after vaccine

You can't force people to take an RNA vaccination.. there will always be a % of people that simply can't take it.

 

[Scion]

not quite.

I am following the health mandate set by the public health agencies. Masks. Wash. Distance. Avoid crowds. Don’t travel. Don’t combine households.

I am willing to hold government accountable for its failures to protect workers and its half assed approach in disease mitigation

if we both agree that paid sick days are an issue, let’s fight for that. It’s good for the workers and it supports best practice evidence based health measures.

Win-win

I actually think a major issue for Ford and other governments was trying to walk a line between “pro business” and tell people to stay home.

sounds good to both sides until you realize that the business is going under ....

AND.....

If the business went under due to an actual Covid restriction, the government provides financial relief.

instead, keep the doors open and go under “naturally” and Ford doesn’t have to pay a cent.

I think it’s one of the dirtiest moves he has done to hurt business and this needs to be called out and rectified.

there is a disease and the government is failing all of us in some way.

In that case I retract my statement, I misunderstood your stance. I interpreted your post as a complete appeal to authority. My mistake.

 

[Sens]

so do nothing?

paid sick days for those essential workers would be the most significant thing the government could do...

 

[Sens]

not quite.

I am following the health mandate set by the public health agencies. Masks. Wash. Distance. Avoid crowds. Don’t travel. Don’t combine households.

I am willing to hold government accountable for its failures to protect workers and its half assed approach in disease mitigation

if we both agree that paid sick days are an issue, let’s fight for that. It’s good for the workers and it supports best practice evidence based health measures.

Win-win

I actually think a major issue for Ford and other governments was trying to walk a line between “pro business” and tell people to stay home.

sounds good to both sides until you realize that the business is going under ....

AND.....

If the business went under due to an actual Covid restriction, the government provides financial relief.

instead, keep the doors open and go under “naturally” and Ford doesn’t have to pay a cent.

I think it’s one of the dirtiest moves he has done to hurt business and this needs to be called out and rectified.

there is a disease and the government is failing all of us in some way.

I see you understand why curfew is window dressing

 

[PromisedLand]

I’m getting so tired of hearing this. Like any rules since the dawn of time, there are people that will break them. As frustrating as it may be for all of us who follow the rules, we are not a monolith for better or worse. It’s no excuse to strip all citizens of their rights and freedoms.

The focus needs to be on protecting the most vulnerable and distributing the vaccine. That has been an epic failure so far (like most things managed by the government). Police enforced curfews, among many other government mandates, are completely illogical. Acting as if we are children needing punishment is ridiculous and insulting. Yes, the virus is serious and everyone should social distance, wear a mask, etc. But if I still happen to contract the virus, I’m not going to be pointing fingers or blaming people. It is what it is at that point. No one is responsible for my personal health but me.

It seems there is a hard time grasping the fact that since the dawn of time any rule breakers only ruined it for themselves or select few. COVID spreads and doesn't care whether you are a rule breaker or not; you just need one moron ruining it for your entire family/friend circle.

The "most vulnerable" depends on how you are defining who is vulnerable. If death is defined by you as the only factor that means "vulnerable" then you need to read up on more contextual and scientific studies.

Govt and police can't do F all if people dont take responsibility; which as cases continue to rise is a good signal that most people don't give a flying F. There is no reason for cases to increase in such an unprecedented numbers if people were following health guidelines.

You are complaining as if government was "forcing" curfews under normal circumstances; they have a reason they are doing it and it is called COVID-19. If there was no virus there wouldn't be any curfews or the so called as you put it "illegal mandates".

You crying on this board isn't going to help; you know what is going to help? If you yell at folks (including your neighbours) for not following guidelines. I know you wouldn't; I know I don't. It is very thin line in following guidelines and also maintaining relationships with otherwise decent people who are just breaking the health guidelines.

We wouldn't be in lockdown, if everyone, followed guidelines - they didn't and here we are.

 

[SlpLessInMuskoka18]

paid sick days for those essential workers would be the most significant thing the government could do...

This is a joke right? Frontline workers are stretched so thin in all Police Forces in Ontario at least.. 12 hour shifts and 50 to 70 hour work weeks.

Frontline get less than a week of sick time off in reality and harassed when they do call out.

Support the defund the police movement and both Canada and the US will fall..

 

[PromisedLand]

curfews are stupid when Amazon (big box warehouses) are rolling 24/7

this is one of the dumbest arguments I've seen. Big Box warehouses were already taking over even before the pandemic; pandemic has just fastened that trajectory.

 

[Sens]

It seems there is a hard time grasping the fact that since the dawn of time any rule breakers only ruined it for themselves or select few. COVID spreads and doesn't care whether you are a rule breaker or not; you just need one moron ruining it for your entire family/friend circle.

The "most vulnerable" depends on how you are defining who is vulnerable. If death is defined by you as the only factor that means "vulnerable" then you need to read up on more contextual and scientific studies.

Govt and police can't do F all if people dont take responsibility; which as cases continue to rise is a good signal that most people don't give a flying F. There is no reason for cases to increase in such an unprecedented numbers if people were following health guidelines.

You are complaining as if government was "forcing" curfews under normal circumstances; they have a reason they are doing it and it is called COVID-19. If there was no virus there wouldn't be any curfews or the so called as you put it "illegal mandates".

You crying on this board isn't going to help; you know what is going to help? If you yell at folks (including your neighbours) for not following guidelines. I know you wouldn't; I know I don't. It is very thin line in following guidelines and also maintaining relationships with otherwise decent people who are just breaking the health guidelines.

We wouldn't be in lockdown, if everyone, followed guidelines - they didn't and here we are.

cases are exploding because the uk strain is already here and people need to work

 

[Golden_Jet]

paid sick days for those essential workers would be the most significant thing the government could do...

It's called, Canada Recovery Sickness Benefit.

 

[Sens]

This is a joke right? Frontline workers are stretched so thin in all Police Forces in Ontario at least.. 12 hour shifts and 50 to 70 hour work weeks.

Frontline get less than a week of sick time off in reality and harassed when they do call out.

Support the defund the police movement and both Canada and the US will fall..

so you’d rather the warehouses workers who get sick continue to go to work because they can’t afford not to?