Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part X
- Thread starter BertCorbeau
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Rants Mulliniks
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- Jun 22, 2008
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Isn't that on you and your thinking? I haven't left home without a mask on since March 17. Months before any mandatory orders. Bought a large box of masks (anticipating them eventually being difficult to get) in mid January 2020. Why? Well my other half follows a couple guys who document life in China and I was watching it unfold. Having watched how "flus" or flu like things move globally every single year, to me it was obvious and logical. I also didn't need anyone to tell me whether wearing a mask is or isn't beneficial to lessening spread. Also simple logic.
Lockdowns or curfews, while I might disagree with how they are implemented, are also not surprising because generally, the populace is what it is....in some cases not very bright, in others just totally lacking discipline. On this you have to look no further than the number of diseases in our population that are self inflicted because people can't even be disciplined enough to eat reasonably. So what you get is mass rules in place to try to account for those folks. Unfair to those who can follow the basics but sadly necessary to account for behaviour.
While I doubt we get to mandatory vaccines, we may and it would be for the same reasons. That said, what most don't realize is that it already exists in law in some provinces through Emergency Measures Acts that you can be mandated to take a vaccine. So if it arrives at that, it doesn't make it some Gates/Soros conspiracy that NWO just now dreamed up and are rolling out.....the legislation already existed.
The Hanging Jowl
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- Apr 2, 2017
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Then those people are going to be disappointed. Vaccination for most people won't *start* until September in our PM's own words. You're likely a year away from getting it if you're not a frontline worker or in a LTC centre. And we have no idea how effective the vaccine will be in stopping the spread of covid anyway. Looking for a panacea solution is a bad idea.
Pookie
Wear a mask
- Oct 23, 2013
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since the virus is spreading at record levels, why wouldn’t someone look forward to stronger mitigation efforts?
Pookie
Wear a mask
- Oct 23, 2013
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this is an example of a false equivalency.
“quite a bit of conflicting medical advice”
let’s explore.
can you name a country in which the medical authority is currently advising its citizens AGAINST the use of masks?
If you find one.... then please list all the countries in which the official public health advice currently describes the use of masks.
Pookie
Wear a mask
- Oct 23, 2013
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More disinformation.
while we don’t know whether someone can still SPREAD Covid after getting vaccinated...
we do know that after 2 doses, the vaccine is 95% effective in preventing the vaccinated person from becoming infected.
this is the result of a phase 3 clinical trial where n=40,00
If people do not become infected, they don’t get Covid. And if they don’t get Covid, that’s one less infection.
The Hanging Jowl
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- Apr 2, 2017
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If you look at the Quebec curfew rules, essential workers are allowed to break curfew for work. I assume they'd do the same here.
Pookie
Wear a mask
- Oct 23, 2013
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The reason as to why the spread continues is contained in your own post.
we are not locked down.
As you highlight, people can go to the Walmart for non essentials.
As you highlight, people simply drove an extra few minutes to regions that were not under the same restrictions.
people travelled without fines.
people held gatherings without fines.
hell even politicians left the country.
If your New Years resolution was to lose weight and you say you changed your diet but cheat day became every other day.... don’t be surprised if you didn’t lose weight.
we are half-assing what works. As a result, we are prolonging this scourge for longer than it needs to be.
If the Halton police chief is not fired for travailing to America
People are going to tune out to any messaging in my area
People are going to tune out to any messaging in my area
The Shrike
Registered User
I work for an essential service in downtown Toronto, and my employer gave me a form letter for the authorities last year. Now I realize why.
The Hanging Jowl
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- Apr 2, 2017
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Interesting article here:
Canadian expert's research finds lockdown harms are 10 times greater than benefits | Toronto Sun
Infectious disease expert says the economic and human toll from lockdowns is ten times what covid could have caused. There's a link at the top of the article to his research paper. He cites and collaborates with economists and known health data to provide a very elaborate cost-benefit analysis. I only skimmed through the PDF since it gets pretty technical but even with that I caught a lot of the same things I've been saying since the Spring like how we're just delaying the inevitable with lockdowns and that the real solution all along was a focussed approach to protect the vulnerable. He debunks a lot of the typical arguments you see on this site from the doom and gloomers like the notion that the economy would have collapsed anyway, etc. He calculates the economic impact of lockdowns to be $50 trillion over the next decade, not including a lot of soft tangential effects that are hard to measure.
Here's kind of a synopsis statement from the interview:
"In the cost-benefit analysis I consider the benefits of lockdowns in preventing deaths from COVID-19, and the costs of lockdowns in terms of the effects of the recession, loneliness, and unemployment on population wellbeing and mortality. I did not consider all of the other so-called ‘collateral damage’ of lockdowns mentioned above. It turned out that the costs of lockdowns are at least 10 times higher than the benefits. That is, lockdowns cause far more harm to population wellbeing than COVID-19 can. It is important to note that I support a focused protection approach, where we aim to protect those truly at high-risk of COVID-19 mortality, including older people, especially those with severe co-morbidities and those in nursing homes and hospitals."
Basically everything me and a few others have been saying all along but with a lot of data to back it up. Maybe a few people will listen when an expert says it.
Canadian expert's research finds lockdown harms are 10 times greater than benefits | Toronto Sun
Infectious disease expert says the economic and human toll from lockdowns is ten times what covid could have caused. There's a link at the top of the article to his research paper. He cites and collaborates with economists and known health data to provide a very elaborate cost-benefit analysis. I only skimmed through the PDF since it gets pretty technical but even with that I caught a lot of the same things I've been saying since the Spring like how we're just delaying the inevitable with lockdowns and that the real solution all along was a focussed approach to protect the vulnerable. He debunks a lot of the typical arguments you see on this site from the doom and gloomers like the notion that the economy would have collapsed anyway, etc. He calculates the economic impact of lockdowns to be $50 trillion over the next decade, not including a lot of soft tangential effects that are hard to measure.
Here's kind of a synopsis statement from the interview:
"In the cost-benefit analysis I consider the benefits of lockdowns in preventing deaths from COVID-19, and the costs of lockdowns in terms of the effects of the recession, loneliness, and unemployment on population wellbeing and mortality. I did not consider all of the other so-called ‘collateral damage’ of lockdowns mentioned above. It turned out that the costs of lockdowns are at least 10 times higher than the benefits. That is, lockdowns cause far more harm to population wellbeing than COVID-19 can. It is important to note that I support a focused protection approach, where we aim to protect those truly at high-risk of COVID-19 mortality, including older people, especially those with severe co-morbidities and those in nursing homes and hospitals."
Basically everything me and a few others have been saying all along but with a lot of data to back it up. Maybe a few people will listen when an expert says it.
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Pookie
Wear a mask
- Oct 23, 2013
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Done properly, night curfews can be helpful in curbing coronavirus outbreaks, experts say
they can work. The rationale is solid.
it’s the implementation part where it can go sideways.
to say I’m not placing a lot of faith in Ford to do this properly is an understatement
Pookie
Wear a mask
- Oct 23, 2013
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Why would people in the GTA abide by a curfew after seeing the Halton Police Chief travel to the USA
The optics... what a joke
The optics... what a joke
The Hanging Jowl
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- Apr 2, 2017
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Yes, that's what you need in Quebec to show police if you're stopped.
As an engineering consultant, I am essential if I work for any essential services not locked down (or at least that's how they defined it last March during the hard lockdown). But since I'm self-employed, I guess I have to write myself a letter
. Actually, sounds like a get-out-of-jail free card since any time I want out of the house I can just say I'm going to the office.So?
My grandfather smoked every day of his life and lived till he was 92. Let's all smoke cigarettes
It's not just about you, man. You unfortunately live in a world with other people. Stupid modern society
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Basically.. Every person will have to stop if asked. Identify yourself. Or be detained until proven your a worker...
What does that sound like..
Pookie
Wear a mask
- Oct 23, 2013
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well you can go down that road if you want but the reality is they aren’t hunting people down based on their religion for the purposes of killing them.
Rants Mulliniks
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- Jun 22, 2008
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Sounds like almost every policy. Unfortunately written to account for the minority who just don't care.
By the by, I get your point and understand it completely. Unfortunately there's those people out there keeping us all there. Now we could go down the road of "what's acceptable risk?", which is completely fair.
Well takeout food is essential here so I guess the curfew won't effect people that work there. If that's the case, I guess it would still be alright to go out and get some after curfew. It's essential after all, we are talking food here. Then again it wouldn't surprise me if the rule became takeout stays open but not allowed out to pick it up.
Agreed it's going to be a while. So far after a month, 1/2 percent of the population has received their 1st shot and we have run out of vaccine. I'd be shocked if we had inoculated 10% of the population in a year and by then it may be time for the frontline people to get shots again.
- Dec 12, 2017
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I feel bad for kids that are not allowed to play sports.
I’m so thankful that my son is still able to practice baseball everyday and they’ll be starting their new season in couple of weeks.
Yes there are lots of precautions for players, coaches and fans and the authorities are strict with enforcement.
Pookie
Wear a mask
- Oct 23, 2013
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thanks for the morning chuckle.
you say he “debunks” everything but acknowledge that you only “skimmed through the PDF because it gets technical.”
I’m glad the scientific method and peer review process is more rigorous in its conclusions.
BTW, this was an opinion piece published/paid for by the Macdonald Laurier Institute. A think tank which claims independence.
It is managed by the guy who founded the Atlantic Institute for Market Studies which merged with the Fraser Institute. Fraser Institute of course being well known as being on the “right wing” of the spectrum.
An Alberta doctor, writing a Non peer reviewed opinion piece for a conservative think tank that ends up being in favour of fewer restrictions.
colour me surprised
- Dec 12, 2017
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There is a fine line when managing public health. Far too often we see them trying to save one tree while the forest burns.
While takeout food is essential right now. I see that ending with the curfews in place. On top of curfews they have mentioned going back to rules in place like back in March.
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