Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Part VIII - The Long Winter is Here

[The Hanging Jowl]

Perhaps with no immunity card you would have to take an instant result test to prove you aren't a carrier.

I think that would be a fair compromise.

There are likely going to be very few occasions you'd need a card anyway, like visiting people at risk. I can't see many public places checking, private properties are of course private properties thus are by permission entry anyway.

Of course some countries might require proof of vaccination before entry, which would be their right.

I agree this is a fair compromise and I would have no problem with that. Yet another reason rapid testing was so critical to dealing with this crisis.

 

[ULF_55]

And I obviously disagree.

I'm not sure what you disagree about?

You disagree decisions have consequences?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Is there anything that is 100% safe?
And at this point there is a known effective rate, which will change as there is more data.

This should be over in a year anyway, and everyone who wants will have had the vaccination and those who chose not to get vaccinated won't.

I really don't see anything complicated happening here.

Most things aren't 100% safe but most things aren't forced on me. And what makes you think this will be over in a year?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I'm not sure what you disagree about?

You disagree decisions have consequences?

That it's not complicated.

 

[ULF_55]

Most things aren't 100% safe but most things aren't forced on me. And what makes you think this will be over in a year?

I don't think anyone is going to be forced to take the vaccine.

I think it will be over in a year, not completely eradicated, but just small pockets where people chose to become infected.

Vaccinations will start next week in Canada, and by the time summer ends most who chose will have done so.

 

[Cor]

I think there would be a lawsuit and my side would win.

It's a private building and MLSE can refuse entry to who they want. Same with every other private establishment.

I am not interested in an argument of whether you should/could/would get vaccinated. However, in a case of entry, business can 100% outline the need for a vaccination card or vaccination exemption card to allow service. Just like, unless mandated by the province, there will be businesses who don't require it. Just like how you can decide to get vaccinated or not, private businesses and locations can decide, outside of religious, gender, race and sexual orientation discrimination, who they serve, especially since it would be considered a employee and public health decision.

So quite frankly, take away any discussion of getting, or not getting vaccinated, trying to sue MLSE (lol) for not permitting you entry into their private location, wouldn't go well, and would be quite the waste of your time and money.

I'm of the demographic that probably won't be eligible to get the vaccine until, assumingly, next summer or the fall. I am assuming, the same thing can be said about you. That means vaccines will have gone out WORLD WIDE, to the most high risk population. So by the time we are allowed to get it, there will be more than enough evidence that these vaccines are no less unsafe than a normal flu vaccine.

For the record, I don't get the flu shot yearly. Only year I did, was the year of the swine flu surge, and funny enough, I got the flu that winter. It's pure coincidence. However, I am naturally someone that constantly washes my hands, and uses sanitizer, whenever I deal with people. I don't tell other people not to get it, and I don't get angry at people who do it. I don't tell people to not vaccinate their kids. I simply make the choice to not the flu shot myself, in large part because of the coincidence, and it's just that, as well as the general precautions I take otherwise during flu season.

Vaccine reactions are fairly common. Generally, the arm you get it in will feel weaker for a couple days, you might feel a bit more tired, could have a headache, and so on. It's all normal. With any vaccine, those who, generally, have an egg allergy, are at risk to have an allergic reaction. Again, it's uncommon for the general pop. however not that uncommon for the population with egg related allergies.

(and for anyone other than OP reading this - yes, I do plan on getting the COVID vaccine when I am eligible - because it's important for everyone to do )

 

[ULF_55]

That it's not complicated.

You take the vaccine or you don't take the vaccine.

How is that complicated?

 

[cbbb25]

That it's not complicated.

I think the logical conclusion to the current political atmosphere is that were drifting towards full Libertarianism which overall if that's what people want, I don't necessarily hate the ideology behind it.

But we don't pick and choose which systems we want enforced. I don't live in Toronto and rarely visit, I don't want to pay taxes to support the city.

I don't want oil companies or electric car companies subsidized. If the natives that own the land in BC say no to the pipeline well I guess its no and the company needs to use free market ways to get its oil to the consumer. Its not the governments job to figure that out for the oil company.

We have a family cottage up north, but now I need permits to build anything. Get rid of the permits and red tape.

I occasionally smoke and drink and curse, I don't think its anyones business to tell me to watch my mouth or tell me not to smoke around them. How about you don't bring a 5 year old to the tailgating before a game. People know what tailgating entails and why should I change my behaviour to suit you and your family? (Thats an exaggeration to make my point, I would always try to be as courteous to anyone to enhance game day experiences and I think going to games is a wonderful family outing)


I also hope all those saying no to vaccines and its my choice ect.. Aren't the ones in the camp of ticket prices are to high, its only suits at games, something needs to be done to get the average Joe back to games. Lol not my problem you cant dish out $150 for standing tickets, why should the suits subsidize you or MLSE take a profit decrease to make sure you can attend the game. If you cant afford $200 a ticket that's your problem no one else since clearly people can afford it since its sold out all the time.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Interesting to hear folks whose bigger concern is whether or not they are "submissive". A little story I would share with folks like that. I woke up to go to work one morning and found my wife dead in bed at age 45. She had some minor problems but nothing serious. That said, had she caught COVID, given the nature of what it does (and what killed her), I can almost guarantee COVID would have killed her. Having experienced that, wearing a mask for some has absolutely nothing to do with submission or fear, rather life experience and empathy. Lovely to hear his big concerns are submissiveness though (or whatever theories he chooses to run with). Run with those "instincts".....

Oh man Leafer, sorry you had to go through that.Keep it real bro and hope life is nice to you from here on.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Oh man Leafer, sorry you had to go through that.Keep it real bro and hope life is nice to you from here on.

It was tough. It's a while ago now. Don't think you ever really get over those things but you move on as you can. Bigger thing is when I read posts like that one it just screams both a lack of experience/empathy. Economics aside, in terms of individual contribution, it's the least one can do.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

It's a private building and MLSE can refuse entry to who they want. Same with every other private establishment.

I am not interested in an argument of whether you should/could/would get vaccinated. However, in a case of entry, business can 100% outline the need for a vaccination card or vaccination exemption card to allow service. Just like, unless mandated by the province, there will be businesses who don't require it. Just like how you can decide to get vaccinated or not, private businesses and locations can decide, outside of religious, gender, race and sexual orientation discrimination, who they serve, especially since it would be considered a employee and public health decision.

So quite frankly, take away any discussion of getting, or not getting vaccinated, trying to sue MLSE (lol) for not permitting you entry into their private location, wouldn't go well, and would be quite the waste of your time and money.

I'm of the demographic that probably won't be eligible to get the vaccine until, assumingly, next summer or the fall. I am assuming, the same thing can be said about you. That means vaccines will have gone out WORLD WIDE, to the most high risk population. So by the time we are allowed to get it, there will be more than enough evidence that these vaccines are no less unsafe than a normal flu vaccine.

For the record, I don't get the flu shot yearly. Only year I did, was the year of the swine flu surge, and funny enough, I got the flu that winter. It's pure coincidence. However, I am naturally someone that constantly washes my hands, and uses sanitizer, whenever I deal with people. I don't tell other people not to get it, and I don't get angry at people who do it. I don't tell people to not vaccinate their kids. I simply make the choice to not the flu shot myself, in large part because of the coincidence, and it's just that, as well as the general precautions I take otherwise during flu season.

Vaccine reactions are fairly common. Generally, the arm you get it in will feel weaker for a couple days, you might feel a bit more tired, could have a headache, and so on. It's all normal. With any vaccine, those who, generally, have an egg allergy, are at risk to have an allergic reaction. Again, it's uncommon for the general pop. however not that uncommon for the population with egg related allergies.

(and for anyone other than OP reading this - yes, I do plan on getting the COVID vaccine when I am eligible - because it's important for everyone to do )

I’m not getting it and i have done my part whole way without complaint. I actually promote distancing etc the entire way, i done and continue to do my part but....... no vaccine for this cat. I don’t care if they don’t want the money of the misfit scourge i will become soon enough. My big yard and a handful of friends with me there is all i need. Nobody is getting any of my personal info pertaining to health ever.

I got H1N1 vaccine in 2010 and almost died. I actually though i was going to. Scary dude

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This whole "Build back better" campaign sounds all nice and comfy...except the way we are heading is to let the big corps get even bigger and make the disparity between the rich and poor even worse.

I can't get my products to customers in the USA because the USPS decided to give Walmart the same sweet deal they gave to Amazon. So, they prioritize the big corps packages while small guys like me suffer from customers emailing and calling about the delay in their shipments.

People nowadays are totally confused about who the bad guys are. All a big corp has to do is put a black box on their website about BLM and make a pittance donation and they are off the hook. This makes me sick. Instead...how about having a jobs program in the inner cities or something that is tangible for people. This lip service they do gives them a pass to keep our jobs over seas and make bigger profits. And yet you have people marching in the streets saying Amazon and Nike are great companies because they care...do they really or is it just good PR?

Da public has no idea what you are saying only mid and smaller companies can sympathize with your plight. But it is what all of us in your world understand. Since COVID started in China it was a complete gong show getting containers too for almost 6 months until backlog of big boys cleared. Now it is affecting shipping in North America because so many consumers moved to online buying it has screwed up da normal ways of shipping product to customers especially now around XMAS. But Amazon and Walmarts and car makers etc are always gonna secure pathways because they can offer guaranteed buying power for years. So bottom line is da small and medium sized companies are gonna pay more and have to figure out a way to pass along extra costs to customers. There is no easy way around da issue.

 

[Future]

They mentioned on one of the news networks yesterday that Canada has preorder enough vaccine currently in the pipeline to vaccinated every Canadian 6 X over.

I read it was even more than that and way more than any other country (per capita). Thought that was a bit strange...

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Da public has no idea what you are saying only mid and smaller companies can sympathize with your plight. But it is what all of us in your world understand. Since COVID started in China it was a complete gong show getting containers too for almost 6 months until backlog of big boys cleared. Now it is affecting shipping in North America because so many consumers moved to online buying it has screwed up da normal ways of shipping product to customers especially now around XMAS. But Amazon and Walmarts and car makers etc are always gonna secure pathways because they can offer guaranteed buying power for years. So bottom line is da small and medium sized companies are gonna pay more and have to figure out a way to pass along extra costs to customers. There is no easy way around da issue.

Yes there is, shop local and Canadian.

 

[Cor]

I read it was even more than that and way more than any other country (per capita). Thought that was a bit strange...

Every person needs 2 shots, separated by 21 days.

You want to order more than needed, in the event of spoiled doses.

Canada will also eventually send doses to poor countries, that may not be able to afford the vaccine.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I don't think anyone is going to be forced to take the vaccine.

I think it will be over in a year, not completely eradicated, but just small pockets where people chose to become infected.

Vaccinations will start next week in Canada, and by the time summer ends most who chose will have done so.

Circular argument. If you're limiting my freedom if I don't take it, you're basically making it mandatory. And it won't be over in a year. No chance. We will be living with this forever like the flu. Coping mechanisms are needed, not quick fix solutions.

 

[ULF_55]

I’m not getting it and i have done my part whole way without complaint. I actually promote distancing etc the entire way, i done and continue to do my part but....... no vaccine for this cat. I don’t care if they don’t want the money of the misfit scourge i will become soon enough. My big yard and a handful of friends with me there is all i need. Nobody is getting any of my personal info pertaining to health ever.

I got H1N1 vaccine in 2010 and almost died. I actually though i was going to. Scary dude

I got swine flu shot in the 70's while in the military.
I got it again in 2010?

Apparently, there was some concern about it in the 70's.

 

[ULF_55]

Circular argument. If you're limiting my freedom if I don't take it, you're basically making it mandatory. And it won't be over in a year. No chance. We will be living with this forever like the flu. Coping mechanisms are needed, not quick fix solutions.

There will be more regardless of what happens.

We make choices all the time that limit our freedom.

Having kids limits our freedom ... except those people who suggest, I'm going to have a family but not change my life at all.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

You take the vaccine or you don't take the vaccine.

How is that complicated?

Would you like me to cut and paste the 20 posts I've already made on the subject?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I think the logical conclusion to the current political atmosphere is that were drifting towards full Libertarianism which overall if that's what people want, I don't necessarily hate the ideology behind it.

But we don't pick and choose which systems we want enforced. I don't live in Toronto and rarely visit, I don't want to pay taxes to support the city.

I don't want oil companies or electric car companies subsidized. If the natives that own the land in BC say no to the pipeline well I guess its no and the company needs to use free market ways to get its oil to the consumer. Its not the governments job to figure that out for the oil company.

We have a family cottage up north, but now I need permits to build anything. Get rid of the permits and red tape.

I occasionally smoke and drink and curse, I don't think its anyones business to tell me to watch my mouth or tell me not to smoke around them. How about you don't bring a 5 year old to the tailgating before a game. People know what tailgating entails and why should I change my behaviour to suit you and your family? (Thats an exaggeration to make my point, I would always try to be as courteous to anyone to enhance game day experiences and I think going to games is a wonderful family outing)


I also hope all those saying no to vaccines and its my choice ect.. Aren't the ones in the camp of ticket prices are to high, its only suits at games, something needs to be done to get the average Joe back to games. Lol not my problem you cant dish out $150 for standing tickets, why should the suits subsidize you or MLSE take a profit decrease to make sure you can attend the game. If you cant afford $200 a ticket that's your problem no one else since clearly people can afford it since its sold out all the time.

Literally none of this applies to me except the vaccine.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I got swine flu shot in the 70's while in the military.
I got it again in 2010?

Apparently, there was some concern about it in the 70's.

Haha yeah, well i had some concerns about it in 2010 too. I couldn’t walk man. Anyways that was it for me.

 

[Clark4Ever]

But but but science said it was safe

I'd rather be discriminated against than be a guinea pig.

 

[IPS]

You and others keep making this comparison. Getting a passport carries no risk. Taking a rushed vaccine that they've changed recommendations over after severe reactions in the very first day of use carries risks.

First Vaccine of its kind to be used on humans. There are loads of reasons to be concerned about taking this thing, and many health professionals happen to share this sentiment too.

 

[Future]

I think, generally, I subscribe to the idea of individualism > collectivism. I don’t think humans are inherently equipped to take into account the emotions or physical health of millions of people whom they may share a city, province, or to a greater extent, the world. We’ve evolved from having small communities/families that we want to build and protect to ensure that they prosper. The internet and globalism has shifted us from that to a certain extent.

How it relates to all of this is that I think people should be educated on the risks of this virus like anything and provided with the necessary info to protect themselves and their families.... but authoritative government/corporate mandates while simultaneously social shaming others to behave a certain way is ridiculous and antecedent to human nature. Hell, I think without mandates you’d see a lot more people on board with doing things voluntarily to protect ourselves and our families. You may disagree, that’s fine.

Last note: has anyone seen any commercials or piece of government advertising regarding how to REALLY protect yourself? For example, taking vitamins D, C, & Zinc to build your immune response. Most notably vitamin D will be incredibly important during this winter because many will become deficient and it’s a known steroid vitamin in protecting against respiratory illness. I personally haven’t seen any REAL public health education throughout this entire pandemic other than the parroting of the same two lines of “wear a mask” “practice social distancing”

 

[justashadowof]

If people don't see how this is going in an authoritarian direction, I blame history illiteracy and naive trust in authority. BTW not once in my life did I have to prove that I was vaccinated against polio or flash my smallpox vaccination scar (I don't have one - neither attempt worked). Those diseases were documented threats to the youth.

And why does it matter that individuals aren't vaccinated? The logic doesn't work out. If everyone else is vaccinated, aren't they protected against those who aren't? And if they aren't, a vaccine that only might work isn't really a vaccine, it's a suspect prophylactic.