Controversial Entertainment Opinions/Discussion Thread - Part II

[x Tame Impala]

I don't think that can be a blanket statement either way. Sometimes a band really does compromise their style to make more poppy music and more $$$

 

[Aladyyn]

Leprosy is by far the best Death album

 

[Shareefruck]

Caught a glimpse of the Star Wars thread and thought this:

The whole idea that a movie should be watched with certain expectations is complete nonsense. "What did you expect?" is not ever a valid defense for something. If a movie has unavoidable constraints that make it doomed to be underwhelming to some degree, it should still be described as underwhelming, without caveat. Hell, even if something is constrained to the norms of a genre that are to be expected, problems that you have with these norms should still be pointed out, not dismissed as "bringing it on yourself".

Also, "You watched it because you wanted to hate it" is always just a straight up bald-faced lie. I don't think bias really works that way-- people don't go against their instincts and override positive feelings with negativity-- it's a very unnatural thing to accuse someone of and it would be a very petty, borderline psychotic thing to actually be guilty of. On the contrary, it evidently seems to work far more in the opposite direction-- because some people have an inclination to want to be positive. Nobody goes out WANTING to be negative, though, really-- they just are because of how something holds up to their sense of what's good or bad-- you can criticize that sense, but all this other crap is just desperate noise.

Also critics get a bum rep. No single group is going to be a perfect evaluator of something, but they're much more credible than an average casual viewer, or poster here, and really, they're the only force that has any sort of power that at least with some regularly aren't just complete shills that ***** themselves out for the production companies-- Without'em, we'd be at the mercy of advertisers and marketers, which is a disturbing thought. People seem to have this defensive attitude about critics that's like "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO THINK!!!" and it seems pretty moronic and reactionary.

Also, it's weird how people get so hyped up and tribal about particular franchises even knowing full well that expectations are lowered and there's reason for skepticism, and are so focused on defending every piece of criticism that they come across out of loyalty to the brand or something. The people who make these things are usually just random ***-holes simply trying to sucker you into something and make money, and usually, are arbitrary people who have nothing to do with the original franchise in the first place-- Why does loyalty even exist? It doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, it's dumb to watch something because the trailer interests you. It's a trailer! It's meaningless and tells you nothing, really. "Don't let critics dictate your viewing habits!! If a trailer interests you, then watch it!" Doesn't make any sense. Surely credible, critical word of mouth, while never unquestionable gospel, should reasonably have more influence than blatant self-promotion that can only be superficially intriguing.

Those types of threads are just a hot-bed of emotional, irrational comments, in my eyes.

 

[BonMorrison]

^Nailed it about critics.

 

[left hand path]

criticism is definitely an art and i hate when people say smug **** like "those who can't do, teach"

music criticism is generally terrible though lol

 

[Ben Grimm]

criticism is definitely an art and i hate when people say smug **** like "those who can't do, teach" music criticism is generally terrible though lol

I used to think that, but then I realized the smug part was my interpretation. I come from a family of professors and my friends and I write reviews and I've never met anyone who could actually do what they teach or write about.

 

[Shareefruck]

I used to think that, but then I realized the smug part was my interpretation. I come from a family of professors and my friends and I write reviews and I've never met anyone who could actually do what they teach or write about.

I don't think that's the point. It's not smug because it's factually incorrect, it's smug because of the false implication of that.

It's a completely different persuasion/talent that should be treated as such. OF COURSE they can't make films-- not many people can-- but there's no reason that that should be a prerequisite to film criticism or something that is required for it to be considered valuable-- In fact, I'm not sure if it would even help rather than hurt.

 

[Roo Returns]

Some of these might not be controversial, haven't read the entire previous thread, but here goes.

- Although Pantera was a good band, Dimabag became insanely overrated after his death. Descent guitarist? Sure. But no where near the god-like status some people put him in.

Two ways to look at it. Pantera started later than the other commercial metal bands like Metallica, Megadeth, even Sepultura. By the time their last album came out around 2003, the climate had changed and they were almost like Pearl Jam with no MTV influence. So commercially they weren't as big, but critically and word of mouth they were still very popular. Dimebag had a very unique sound. He used Peavy non tube amps. So all in all, he was very influential. In the lexicon of great metal guitarist I don't know where he ranks, but he was definitely unique and deserves a lot of credit.

- Same applies for Kurt Cobain although i'm sure this came up in the previous thread. Nirvana's popularity was more about what they stood for/represented. Had they been just regular joes without the "f**k the establishment" attitude, nobody would still be talking about their below average music.
Nirvana was insanely over on MTV even when they made In Utero. They were THE band of that whole 90s thing which was them, Pearl Jam, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Soundgarden, Smashing Pumpkins, Rage Against The Machine, Primus, etc.


- Brad Pitt is a terrible actor
Watch Burn After Reading, Inglorious ********, or even 12 Monkeys to change your mind. He gets labeled as a himbo like Matt Damon, but both are very good actors. I'd even go as far to say as he's better than George Clooney

- Jennifer Aniston is hotter than Courtney Cox today, but wasn't during the Friends days Agreed

- Izzy was incredibly underrated, and is a better musician than Slash. GNR began their downfall the day he left. Him and Duff were the substance of GnR, Steven and Slash the garnishments, and Axl the style

- Black Sabbath, ACDC, Led Zepplin were all overrated. Alice Cooper was the best thing to come out of the 70s in terms of rock Love all those bands, I feel like Cooper gets underrated because he didn't die or leave, the band isn't separated from the man who plays/is Alice Cooper, and his use of show tunes, cabaret, etc. gets lumped as less macho and more in common with Supertramp or Elton John Also, that whole period from like 1983-1989 when he was getting sober/recovering/sorta inactive hurts his legend

- The Howard era of Killswitch Engage was better than anything done with Jesse 100% agree. As a vocalist, Howard is more interesting and the production of the albums he made with them, that's how you make a commercial hard rock album

- Ride the Lightning is the best Metallica album Just a toad below Master but the argument can be made

- Kim Kardashian is average looking Not even. She stinks. She's up there with Paris Hilton, Jennifer Lopez, Jennifer Lawrence, Katy Perry, and Taylor Swift as completely overrated

- Korn was a terrible band They had their moments. Rhythm section does some interesting stuff.

- Bono is a TERRIBLE vocalist. I have no idea how U2 was able to become so popular with him as a singerHe has a to of charisma and a good look. It appeals to the masses the same way REM did. Safe rock

- Metallica would've had taken the same path with their music even if Cliff were still alive No way, Cliff would've been too strong a presence

- Angelina Jolie has never been good looking Nothing about her is at all interesting in any way, shape, or form. She's done like 3 good movies at most.

Just to add on to what you said

 

[Roo Returns]

A few more music ones.

-Sting's solo career is much better than he gets credit for.

-REM was shoved down our collective throats in the 90s and it made me resent them, but that they've been away forever I can somewhat enjoy them now.

-Helmet and Fishbone should have been much bigger commercially. I don't think Page Hamilton had the charisma to relate to the average joe as a personality, but the music was there. Fishbone had the personality and the look, but their songs were just a little too experimental for the average joe. As a musician I appreciate all the weird stuff they did.

-Sometimes a band releases an album with a new member and it's already been decided the album is not good or cool. That's unfortunate. Also if a band is perceived as "old" or "tired." The following albums are much better than they get credit for: One Hot Minute by Red Hot Chili Peppers, Presence by Led Zeppelin, Naked by Talking Heads, Van Halen III

-Duran Duran are the Brad Pitt of the music world. They get unfairly labelled as himbos because of the whole Tiger Beat pinup stuff, but the band has a lot of substance and chops. Even the covers album they put out in 1995 is really good.

-Gary Clarke Jr/Janelle Monae/Grace Potter are very popular but both would have been 10x what they are in the 90s when MTV was still relevant.

-I've talked about it on here before in other threads but the death of Jeff Buckley and breakup of At The Drive-In were the two biggest losses/alterations of rock history in the late 90s and early 2000s. No doubt in my mind Buckley would have been a superstar, even without MTV. ATDI were just on the cusp of getting that 'Nirvana Push" but they broke up. They probably could have kept rock music commercially relevant for another five years before the whole mp3/no one buys albums anymore era started.

-311 are criminally underrated and one of the hardest working under the radar bands of the last 25 years.

 

[Aladyyn]

As for Cliff, I don't think he was a very vocal presence in the band, that was always Lars and James. They would have done the same thing regardless of Cliff. If anything Cliff would have left Metallica if he didn't agree with their artistic vision.

Metallica was set on that path the moment they kicked Mustaine.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Alright, here's another one.

Given the choice between seeing a cinematic failure or a meh movie product, I will take the former more often than not.

 

[Ben Grimm]

If you made a list of the best tv ever, The Sopranos and The Wire may be at the top of the list, but most of the list would not be HBO. Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Seinfeld, The Simpsons, House of Cards, etc.

 

[Shareefruck]

Here's another one I thought of from that Star Wars thread-- I find it strange that "backlash" is stigmatized as some awful, unfair, dismissable phenomenon. Backlash, just by thinking about it with simple common sense, is likely to be more credible/true than initial perception. Backlash is just the result of something becoming widely exposed to the public in combination with having numerous flaws that were overlooked in its initial run. The phenomenon can be summarized as an initial undeserved imbalance in perception correcting itself upon further reflection/exposure/scrutiny.

Isn't that a good thing? If anything, isn't that justice, converging towards the truth? Nobody backlashes at things that they don't view as glaring flaws. Even possible careless overcompensation makes some kind of sense, as it pushes perceptions back in the proper direction (and will be further corrected by backlash to that backlash, so it can never get out of control). And in twenty years, when something's completely pared down in both directions by the backlash, that resulting perception of how good it ACTUALLY is is likely the closest thing we have to reality.

I don't really see the downside, other than the people who were initially overzealous and ultimately wrong getting their feelings hurt by the suggestion.

The only thing worth of condemnation when it comes to backlash is the previous inaccurate impression that creates that contrast in the first place. Otherwise, backlash is just regular analysis/criticism.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Here's another one I thought of from that Star Wars thread-- I find it strange that "backlash" is stigmatized as some awful, unfair, dismissable phenomenon. Backlash, just by thinking about it with simple common sense, is likely to be more credible/true than initial perception. Backlash is just the result of something becoming widely exposed to the public in combination with having numerous flaws that were overlooked in its initial run. The phenomenon can be summarized as an initial undeserved imbalance in perception correcting itself upon further reflection/exposure/scrutiny.

Isn't that a good thing? If anything, isn't that justice, diverging towards the truth? Nobody backlashes at things that they don't view as glaring flaws. Even overcompensation makes some kind of sense, as it pushes perceptions back in the proper direction (and will be further corrected by backlash to that backlash, so it can never get out of control). And in twenty years, when something's completely pared down in both directions by the backlash, that resulting perception of how good it ACTUALLY is is likely the closest thing we have to reality.

I don't really see the downside, other than the people who were initially overzealous and ultimately wrong getting their feelings hurt.

Different criteria, but this honestly reminds me of the glory days of the console wars in terms of bitterness towards those who don't prefer their own preferred brand.

Disney's marketing machine is so effective to the point where criticism (or as I prefer to call it, objective analysis) itself is attacked in droves without them even needing to say a thing.

But to their credit, at least their stuff tends to be cohesive. Looking at you Warner Bros.

 

[Roo Returns]

As for Cliff, I don't think he was a very vocal presence in the band, that was always Lars and James. They would have done the same thing regardless of Cliff. If anything Cliff would have left Metallica if he didn't agree with their artistic vision.

Metallica was set on that path the moment they kicked Mustaine.

I can only go what I've read and I was five years old when Cliff died, but my understanding is that he was the big brother/spokesperson for Metallica and played a big role in their image, sound, and overall direction. Even the writing credits were more even before he died. Hetfield was definitely the singer, but if you look at interviews from that era on Youtube, he was very shy. A lot of the hazing of Newsted was because the guys in the band didn't know how to grieve Burton dying, he had such a big role in the band.

I don't think And Justice would have ever happened because no way the bass gets drowned out like that. Also, can't see the whole Load era. If anything, Metallica would have ended up more like present day Opeth just replace death metal with thrash.

Also if you look at the writing credits, Cliff Burton pretty much got co-credit on all the RTL tracks, and three on MTP.

 

[Aladyyn]

Wouldn't read much into Metallica's writing credits.

 

[izlez]

some that I've always argued with people:

The Walking Dead is a terrible show, mostly because of a completely unbelievable premise.
I can get behind a show like Game of Thrones because it creates rules, and then tells a compelling story within those rules. TWD takes place in current time on earth. There are guns, there are militaries, people are still people with brains. You demonstrate that zombies are mindless, slow moving creatures, that are easily distracted by things like loud noises. Every single wild animal sounds way more threatening to me than that, and I just can't get passed that.


Special effects were way better 30 years ago.
CGI completely ruins movies (if used for anything more than subtle dust clouds or something like that). Computers aren't good enough yet, and apparently people working in special effects don't have eyes to see how physics work, because they are never close on a crash, explosion, whatever. We were much better off 30 years ago using scaled models with real physical things than computers, and when something like that is in a movie I am completely taken out of it.


Megan Fox is not, and never was, hot

 

[aleshemsky83]

If you made a list of the best tv ever, The Sopranos and The Wire may be at the top of the list, but most of the list would not be HBO. Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Seinfeld, The Simpsons, House of Cards, etc.

HBO is honestly obsessed with rape. Why do all their shows have to have 3 rape scenes an episode. I get it, you're not cable. Can you make something I can at least watch in my living room?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

HBO is honestly obsessed with rape. Why do all their shows have to have 3 rape scenes an episode. I get it, you're not cable. Can you make something I can at least watch in my living room?

The Wire doesn't have any rape scenes.
Westworld had implied rape in the first episode but never again.
Game of Thrones has had single-digit rape scenes through its history as far as I am aware.

I think what you mean is nudity and sexual content.

 

[PBandJ]

As for Cliff, I don't think he was a very vocal presence in the band, that was always Lars and James. They would have done the same thing regardless of Cliff. If anything Cliff would have left Metallica if he didn't agree with their artistic vision.

Metallica was set on that path the moment they kicked Mustaine.

Actually, Cliff was a fairly big presence. The band packed up and move operations at his request to get him to join the band.

Everyone close to the band has said Cliff had a wide range of musical interests, I absolutely believe he would have gone with the 90's direction they went.

Which leads to my controversial opinion, Load is easily one of Metallica's best albums. So many great songs on it.

 

[Lost Horizons]

I can only go what I've read and I was five years old when Cliff died, but my understanding is that he was the big brother/spokesperson for Metallica and played a big role in their image, sound, and overall direction. Even the writing credits were more even before he died. Hetfield was definitely the singer, but if you look at interviews from that era on Youtube, he was very shy. A lot of the hazing of Newsted was because the guys in the band didn't know how to grieve Burton dying, he had such a big role in the band.

I don't think And Justice would have ever happened because no way the bass gets drowned out like that. Also, can't see the whole Load era. If anything, Metallica would have ended up more like present day Opeth just replace death metal with thrash.

Also if you look at the writing credits, Cliff Burton pretty much got co-credit on all the RTL tracks, and three on MTP.

Cliff help to drive them into a more melodic area. He listened to everything from Bach to Kate Bush to Lynyrd Skynyrd to the Police to ZZ top. He force the rest of the band to listen to it to while they were driving along early on. Metallica do what ever the **** we want attitude came from Cliff. That was pretty much his attitude.He wore bell bottoms on stage! The fact that he was older (by a little)made them look up to him like a big brother. Without him they would have turned in basically Megadeath/Slayer: All speed no real melody. He pushed them to be more melodic and to use harmony more.

 

[aleshemsky83]

The Wire doesn't have any rape scenes.
Westworld had implied rape in the first episode but never again.
Game of Thrones has had single-digit rape scenes through its history as far as I am aware.

I think what you mean is nudity and sexual content.

There's definitely more than one in westworld and I've heard game of thrones is a rape fest even to the point where there's a few rapes not even in the book. Haven't gotten around to watching it yet (the show not the rape)

 

[hototogisu]

The Walking Dead is a terrible show, mostly because of a completely unbelievable premise.
I can get behind a show like Game of Thrones because it creates rules, and then tells a compelling story within those rules. TWD takes place in current time on earth. There are guns, there are militaries, people are still people with brains. You demonstrate that zombies are mindless, slow moving creatures, that are easily distracted by things like loud noises. Every single wild animal sounds way more threatening to me than that, and I just can't get passed that.

Not that I think hating TWD is a particularly controversial opinion but yes, I'm with you completely. I can suspend logic long enough to enjoy a 2 hour movie about zombies, I can't do the same for a long-running show like TWD. It just does not make sense that humanity has lived with zombies for as long as they have in the show and have not yet either completely eradicated them, or at the very least, have them completely under control. It's like, how are people still getting bit by zombies?! How does a zombie still catch you off-guard?!?

The Wire doesn't have any rape scenes.
Westworld had implied rape in the first episode but never again.
Game of Thrones has had single-digit rape scenes through its history as far as I am aware.

I think what you mean is nudity and sexual content.

Also I think GoT has consciously scaled back on the rape scenes because they took a lot of heat for overusing it in the season before last.

 

[Roo Returns]

I actually really like Load as an album. It gets a bad rep. A lot of swing and Corrosion of Conformity influence in there. But it had that Metallica tone.

Can't see them doing it with Cliff though because Cliff and Jason had/have very different bass styles. Cliff played mostly finger and had a very 70s tone, while Newsted was mostly a downstroke pick player and had the 90s metal tone. Cliff had more freedom with his lines and did stuff all over the neck, while it seems like after the Garage Days EP, Metallica made Newsted stay in the lower register.

I remember reading an interview where Newsted would record all these funky Flea baselines for his scratch tracks on Load and ReLoad, and Hetfield would get really pissed off.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

There's definitely more than one in westworld and I've heard game of thrones is a rape fest even to the point where there's a few rapes not even in the book. Haven't gotten around to watching it yet (the show not the rape)

When?

Are you including the one time a security clip was shown of a host getting boinked in sleep mode, and Hector almost being used for sexual misconduct in another episode (also while in sleep mode)? That's the only time I can remember it occurring.