Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[Deas]

And why not exactly?

Gretzky is out of reach I think we can all agree.

Mario
Orr
Howe

Which two can he absolutely "not touch?"

Orr: Probably the second highest peak ever but 650 games played is a HUGE indictment on a career. If Bobby's peak is a 10/10 and McDavid's is 9/10 but McDavid plays literally twice as many games, he can't be considered better? I don't get that.

Mario: Mario also severely limited by injuries and missed time. Honestly, comparing offensive peaks, Mario and Connor are like neck and neck with a slight edge to Mario. When you look at era adjusted stats ( I know, I know, they aren't perfect, ok but it's better than comparing raw totals to the 1980's) they are actually very similar. Mario has 6 scorings titles, McDavid with 5 at only 27. Safe bet he ties and likely surpasses him there. Both 3 Harts, again, McDavid only 27.

Howe: I respect an OG of the game but I rate him way less than most of HF. I have him 4th in the big 4 (soon 5th in the big 5). 6 scoring titles in 25 seasons in a purely Canadian league. Never competed against a Russian, Swede, Fin, Czech, German, Slovak, or even American (there were a handful in the league I think in the 50's but no stars. Top 50 in scoring was all Canadian). McDavid peak >> Howe

About Mario comparison: Screw adjusted stats and look at how their p/g season by season fared compared to their peers. Mario has production wise been significantly more dominant.

Longevity is a trait too of course and if McDavid piles up more Art Rosses albeit with less dominant margins that’s a heavy factor of course. But no, so far offensive peak is not just a slight advantage to Mario if you look at how they did vs their peers.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

I think he can catch Mario but he still a long way to go on that front. A Cup and a Conn Smythe would be a good start.

 

[Craft Beer Lover]

About Mario comparison: Screw adjusted stats and look at how their p/g season by season fared compared to their peers. Mario has production wise been significantly more dominant.

Longevity is a trait too of course and if McDavid piles up more Art Rosses albeit with less dominant margins that’s a heavy factor of course. But no, so far offensive peak is not just a slight advantage to Mario if you look at how they did vs their peers.

Your cope is strong.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

About Mario comparison: Screw adjusted stats and look at how their p/g season by season fared compared to their peers. Mario has production wise been significantly more dominant.

Longevity is a trait too of course and if McDavid piles up more Art Rosses albeit with less dominant margins that’s a heavy factor of course. But no, so far offensive peak is not just a slight advantage to Mario if you look at how they did vs their peers.

Nervous?

 

[Yackiberg8]

McDavid is 60th in Goals/GP so far this playoffs.

 

[26Mats]

There, I said it.

The big 4 has been mythologized and deified but it’s been fine since no player has made a compelling argument to question the sanctity of it until now.

Crosby made an argument for 5th best of all-time but even without losing those three seasons of his prime, I don’t think he was ever a serious threat to Howe/Orr/Super Mario.

McDavid is peaking higher than Howe right now. He’s simply a better player and I’m done pretending that he’s not. (Insert Joker meme).

Howe has legendary longevity but Connor has been very healthy and shows no signs of slowing down. Even if he doesn’t match Howes’ longevity (who can) I value the peak more.

Also, far be it for me to discredit the OG’s, we simply have to factor into the equation that Howe played in a 6 team league against almost exclusively Canadians. We simply have to acknowledge how much more competition McDavid has. He’s being trailed in the scoring race by a German, Russian, and Czech. That simply didn’t happen in Howes’ day.

Connor isn’t nor will he peak higher than Mario or #4 but neither player reached even 1000 games.

If McDavid wins 7-8 scoring titles and 5-6 MVP’s and plays 1400 games I think you have to put him number #2 all-time.

Either way, it’s incredible what we are witnessing right now.

Thoughts? Will McDavid be #2 of all-time when the dust settles?

It's so hard to rank accross eras. How do you compare Lemieux, Orr, and McDavid, plus Howe?

 

[HisNoodliness]

How can you tell if someone is from Pittsburgh or Quebec? Ask them if Mario Lemieux was as good as Gretzky.

How to tell if someone is 19? Ask them if McDavid is as good as Lemieux. Maybe someday, but he has so much to do first.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

@Zirakzigil I noticed you closed the other necro bump thread. Is this a self necro-bump we’re allowing so this guy can take a victory lap everytime McDavid sneezes?

 

[Adam da bomb]

Yes of course but you can always look at who did best vs his own peers.

If those peers are of equal value. If there is more parity between players the gap between player A and Player B won’t be as large.

If I go to a school of 50 ppl who are all bookish and I’m the star of the basketball team I might not make a team for a massive high school.

So comparing against generations can never be accurate.

With increase in world population, more countries participating, increased training the gap would naturally shrink. Never mind, changes in the way game is played, coached. I’m not arguing for either player, just saying compared to peer may not tell the whole story.

 

[NVious]

McDavid is 60th in Goals/GP so far this playoffs.

He also has a shot of breaking Gretzky's assist record, so it depends on how you look at things.

 

[DitchMarner]

McDavid is 60th in Goals/GP so far this playoffs.

Didn't Crosby have six goals the first time he won the Conn Smythe? And six in '08 as well?

 

[HFpapi]

@Zirakzigil I noticed you closed the other necro bump thread. Is this a self necro-bump we’re allowing so this guy can take a victory lap everytime McDavid sneezes?

???

It's an ongoing discussion about where McDavid ranks that changes or is reinforced with new information.

Since my last "necro bump" McDavid has become the 4th fastest player to 100 playoff points, secured his second 30+ point playoff performance, advanced to the finals for the 1st time, and is very much within striking distance of a pretty significant NHL record (most assists in a playoff season).

Also, why are you going into threads and tagging mods to shut it down lol. Were you the kid in school reminding teachers to check the homework they assigned? Costs nothing to avoid threads you aren't interested in. Just keep scrolling.

 

[blundluntman]

If he can take home a cup and 40 point Conn Smythe this year, it'll be very hard to not begin considering him for the #4 spot over Howe once he retires (given he doesn't fall completely off a cliff in his 30s). These past 4 seasons, he's gone on some pretty lengthy stretches where he'll be playing at a Gretz/Lemieux/Orr level; but with those 3, it's more of the norm and they reached that level far quicker than McDavid. I tend to prioritize a player's peak above accomplishments/statistics so I'd still have those 3 above him personally, but at this rate, he's looking to turn the Big 4 into the Big 5. Once that happens, there will be a lot of people arguing him at #2 just like people argue Howe at #2 right now all things considered.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

???

It's an ongoing discussion about where McDavid ranks that changes or is reinforced with new information.

Since my last "necro bump" McDavid has become the 4th fastest player to 100 playoff points, secured his second 30+ point playoff performance, advanced to the finals for the 1st time, and is very much within striking distance of a pretty significant NHL record (most assists in a playoff season).

Costs nothing to avoid threads you aren't interested in. Just keep scrolling.

My comment was directed at @Zirakzigil. If the mods want to allow the continual self-necro-bumping of this thread everytime McDavid "accomplishes" something in perpetuity for the rest of his career I suppose that's their prerogative lol.

 

[StumpyTown]

He still falls to fourth on my list behind Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr. I see McDavid, Crosby, and Howe as interchangeable in 5th.

 

[Foppberg]

And why not exactly?

Gretzky is out of reach I think we can all agree.

Mario
Orr
Howe

Which two can he absolutely "not touch?"

Orr: Probably the second highest peak ever but 650 games played is a HUGE indictment on a career. If Bobby's peak is a 10/10 and McDavid's is 9/10 but McDavid plays literally twice as many games, he can't be considered better? I don't get that.

Mario: Mario also severely limited by injuries and missed time. Honestly, comparing offensive peaks, Mario and Connor are like neck and neck with a slight edge to Mario. When you look at era adjusted stats ( I know, I know, they aren't perfect, ok but it's better than comparing raw totals to the 1980's) they are actually very similar. Mario has 6 scorings titles, McDavid with 5 at only 27. Safe bet he ties and likely surpasses him there. Both 3 Harts, again, McDavid only 27.

Howe: I respect an OG of the game but I rate him way less than most of HF. I have him 4th in the big 4 (soon 5th in the big 5). 6 scoring titles in 25 seasons in a purely Canadian league. Never competed against a Russian, Swede, Fin, Czech, German, Slovak, or even American (there were a handful in the league I think in the 50's but no stars. Top 50 in scoring was all Canadian). McDavid peak >> Howe

If he keeps up this trajectory I think he ends up #4. But there's no chance he touches Gretzky/Mario/Orr, there's just zero chance of that happening.

 

[HFpapi]

My comment was directed at @Zirakzigil. If the mods want to allow the continual self-necro-bumping of this thread everytime McDavid "accomplishes" something in perpetuity for the rest of his career I suppose that's their prerogative lol.

And mines directed at you. How about you let others decide what they want to talk about on here and let mods decide for themselves how they want to moderate. I'm sure they're fine without you going around tagging them asking if a thread should be closed.

This thread has grown by 36 posts since I bumped it. If it's relevant to people and something they want to discuss, what's your problem with it?

If it's not relevant or interesting to you, skip it.

If he keeps up this trajectory I think he ends up #4. But there's no chance he touches Gretzky/Mario/Orr, there's just zero chance of that happening.

well I certainly agree with you that Howe is the most catchable (many don't) and that Orr and Mario require a huge back 9 for McDavid's career. I think he needs to be in the 7/8 Art Ross & 5/6 Hart range to pass either but I think it's doable.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

And mines directed at you. How about you let others decide what they want to talk about on here and let mods decide for themselves how they want to moderate. I'm sure they're fine without you going around tagging them asking if a thread should be closed.

This thread has grown by 36 posts since I bumped it. If it's relevant to people and something they want to discuss, what's your problem with it?

If it's not relevant or interesting to you, skip it.

Okay buddy, I didn't direct any comment at you. Live and let live, I suppose.

 

[HFpapi]

Okay buddy, I didn't direct any comment at you. Live and let live, I suppose.

"live and let live" coming from the guy tagging moderations asking them to shut threads down

I hope the irony isn't lost on you.

Enjoy your day my fellow HF'er.

Edit: Re-reading sounds like you're telling yourself to live and let live so then my comment is outta place. My bad.

 

[JianYang]

I've seen mcdavid have more dominant playoffs than this, but a cup win here would do more for his legend.

It might sound backwards, but it's how the talking heads and the pundits seem to measure things.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

"live and let live" coming from the guy tagging moderations asking them to shut threads down

I hope the irony isn't lost on you.

Enjoy your day my fellow HF'er.

Edit: Re-reading sounds like you're telling yourself to live and let live so then my comment is outta place. My bad.

By "live and let live" I mean that in the same way that you don't like my sentiment, if the mods don't like my sentiment I'm not going to throw a hissy. You let me go on with my comment which wasn't directed at you, I'll let you go on with your thread which wasn't directed at me.

I was purposeful in not using any laugh reactions or laugh emojis, FWIW.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The most vulnerable big 4 player is Lemieux, although that goes against the youngster groupthink here, but McDavid isn’t there yet.

This big playoff - and particularly if he can win a ring - will close the gap even more.

As long as he doesn’t have injury problems or drop off a cliff it is hard not to imagine him beating out Lemieux for career value at least.

 

[HFpapi]

By "live and let live" I mean that in the same way that you don't like my sentiment, if the mods don't like my sentiment I'm not going to throw a hissy. You let me go on with my comment which wasn't directed at you, I'll let you go on with your thread which wasn't directed at me.

I was purposeful in not using any laugh reactions or laugh emojis, FWIW.

Well since I started and "necro bumped" the thread it is directed at me.

But ok pal, you carry on with your "live and let live" philosophy which apparently entails policing HFBoards and tagging mods when you think a thread needs to be shut down. Weird way to spend your time on here.

The rest of us will keep discussing the topic at hand in this thread.

 

[CanadienShark]

My comment was directed at @Zirakzigil. If the mods want to allow the continual self-necro-bumping of this thread everytime McDavid "accomplishes" something in perpetuity for the rest of his career I suppose that's their prerogative lol.

All you're doing is attracting attention. If you don't think it should be open, then report it and move on. Let the mods do their job as they see fit.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Well since I started and "necro bumped" the thread it is directed at me.

But ok pal, you carry on with your "live and let live" philosophy which apparently entails policing HFBoards and tagging mods when you think a thread needs to be shut down. Weird way to spend your time on here.

The rest of us will keep discussing the topic at hand in this thread.

It wasn't directed at you. If it was directed at you I would have tagged or addressed you. The comment arose from another thread being seemingly randomly locked, I didn't come out of nowhere. But the mods will make the decision, I suppose.

Have a good day, buddy. I'll see ya around.


Edit: I love McDavid FWIW, I have 3 of this jerseys from 3 different teams and he's my favorite player to watch basically since he got drafted. So don't think I'm just hating on the guy.