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Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

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McDavid has a ways to go just to pass Crosby, the most accomplished player since the retirement of the last active Big 4 member. If ever.

Crosby is nowhere near the Big 4. In fact, there are still good arguments to bump Sidney well past the No.5 spot.

Does that help?
 
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BigEezyE22 said:
You really think he'll be considered better than Gretzky?
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Is this some subtle way of saying you don't think Gretzky is #1?

I didn't mention Gretz in the OP because I think it goes without saying the #1 spot isn't up for grabs. He had the perfect career. Arguable as the most statistically dominant athlete of all-time (of any sport), had a prime of like 12 years, had a full & mostly healthy 20 year career, won 4 titles as the driving force of a dynasty.

So no, I don't think he can be considered better than Gretzky and never said as much.

If you are implying you don't think Gretzky is #1 all-time, I think you need to rethink.
 
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Canovin said:
If McDavid becomes #2 greatest of all time, it’ll be in the same sense Lebron recently became arguably the #1 greatest of all time
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Please don't confuse LeBron passing Kareem in career points with "recently became arguably the #1 greatest of all time."
 
Sasha Orlov said:
Yeah I know I just mean in baseball people talk about guys from 1910 as being untouchable and pretend Mike Trout isn’t the best player of all time
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And even If every sport had best player from older eras then it would even more clear that people are just biased.

Everything else evolves in our society, players are better etc, but somehow best player there has ever been is from old times. People just have hard time accepting that they had it easier back then.
 
fly4apuckguy said:
As a kid, I had posters of Gretz and Mario on my wall. I idolized them both.

McDavid is a better player than either of them. He can do everything they did, but faster. It gives me a little pain to say that.
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McDavid has Gretzky's vision/playmaking ability? Lemieux's hands/goalscoring ability?

Don't let your opinion pain you. You're flat out wrong.
 
I watch old highlights of players and they look incredibly slow. Heck, go back to the 70s and it looks like beer league hockey from today lol.

So to me, McDavid, based on his skill, talent and abilities, is the best player to play of all time. The cups are irrelevant.

Kiekura said:
And even If every sport had best player from older eras then it would even more clear that people are just biased.

Everything else evolves in our society, players are better etc, but somehow best player there has ever been is from old times. People just have hard time accepting that they had it easier back then.
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Agreed. It was a different game and sports were easier. Was hockey more physical? Sure. But that doesn;t mean there wasn't other factors that made it that much easier to score. Todays players are loads better than the ones of the past.
 
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Gretzky had absolutely stacked teams with good puck moving d-mans same with Mario. McDavid has to do most of the work by himself that's the difference
 
HFpapi said:
There, I said it.

The big 4 has been mythologized and deified but it’s been fine since no player has made a compelling argument to question the sanctity of it until now.

Crosby made an argument for 5th best of all-time but even without losing those three seasons of his prime, I don’t think he was ever a serious threat to Howe/Orr/Super Mario.

McDavid is peaking higher than Howe right now. He’s simply a better player and I’m done pretending that he’s not. (Insert Joker meme).

Howe has legendary longevity but Connor has been very healthy and shows no signs of slowing down. Even if he doesn’t match Howes’ longevity (who can) I value the peak more.

Also, far be it for me to discredit the OG’s, we simply have to factor into the equation that Howe played in a 6 team league against almost exclusively Canadians. We simply have to acknowledge how much more competition McDavid has. He’s being trailed in the scoring race by a German, Russian, and Czech. That simply didn’t happen in Howes’ day.

Connor isn’t nor will he peak higher than Mario or #4 but neither player reached even 1000 games.

If McDavid wins 7-8 scoring titles and 5-6 MVP’s and plays 1400 games I think you have to put him number #2 all-time.

Either way, it’s incredible what we are witnessing right now.

Thoughts? Will McDavid be #2 of all-time when the dust settles?
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So behind Bobby Orr. Right?
 
HFpapi said:
Don Cherry, is that you?

Putting anyone other than Gretz as #1 is such a hipster opinion.
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The gap between Orr and any other player in the game was enormous. He was miles ahead of any d-man. He won two scoring titles as a D-man. He was a +124 one year. Must have been Cheevers? The only argument against him is longevity. And it's a legit argument that I accept. But if you take the five best years of any player in history, nobody beats him. His performance in severe pain in 1976 Canada Cup is legendary. If you didn't see him play, you missed out.

I hate the Bruins and Cherry but Orr was something else.
 
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Leafs1991 said:
I watch old highlights of players and they look incredibly slow. Heck, go back to the 70s and it looks like beer league hockey from today lol.

So to me, McDavid, based on his skill, talent and abilities, is the best player to play of all time. The cups are irrelevant.


Agreed. It was a different game and sports were easier. Was hockey more physical? Sure. But that doesn;t mean there wasn't other factors that made it that much easier to score. Todays players are loads better than the ones of the past.
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There was things that made it harder score Back then but shitloads of things that made it much more easier that it is today.

RJMA said:
There's not enough facepalm memes on the interwebs for this one

If you didn't see Gretzky play, particularly in his prime, there's no shame in saying so.
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You saw Gretzky doing amazing stuff against much much weaker foes and goalies.

None is ever going to break Gretzkys record unless NHL makes rules that makes scoring much more easier somehow.
 
psycat said:
Perhaps, I weren't around to see him. Was just an example though, don't know how Richard entered the discussion but to me he is arguably the most overrated hockey player of all time but that's also off topic of course.
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Did you read the post you're replying too?
 
HFpapi said:
There, I said it.

The big 4 has been mythologized and deified but it’s been fine since no player has made a compelling argument to question the sanctity of it until now.

Crosby made an argument for 5th best of all-time but even without losing those three seasons of his prime, I don’t think he was ever a serious threat to Howe/Orr/Super Mario.

McDavid is peaking higher than Howe right now. He’s simply a better player and I’m done pretending that he’s not. (Insert Joker meme).

Howe has legendary longevity but Connor has been very healthy and shows no signs of slowing down. Even if he doesn’t match Howes’ longevity (who can) I value the peak more.

Also, far be it for me to discredit the OG’s, we simply have to factor into the equation that Howe played in a 6 team league against almost exclusively Canadians. We simply have to acknowledge how much more competition McDavid has. He’s being trailed in the scoring race by a German, Russian, and Czech. That simply didn’t happen in Howes’ day.

Connor isn’t nor will he peak higher than Mario or #4 but neither player reached even 1000 games.

If McDavid wins 7-8 scoring titles and 5-6 MVP’s and plays 1400 games I think you have to put him number #2 all-time.

Either way, it’s incredible what we are witnessing right now.

Thoughts? Will McDavid be #2 of all-time when the dust settles?
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Not positive on that, but fairly confident the "big 4" in Howe, Orr, Lemieux and Gretzky will be considered the big 5 when its all said and done
 
McJedi said:
Best NHL players ever in order:

Gretzky
Lemiuex
McDavid
Orr
Crosby
Radek Bonk
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How is McDavid better than Orr? Orr was much better defensively and just as productive offensively as McDavid's been. Maybe it's a joke though since you have Radek Bonk on here lol
 
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Bfan14 said:
Not positive on that, but fairly confident the "big 4" in Howe, Orr, Lemieux and Gretzky will be considered the big 5 when its all said and done
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That I am also pretty sure of. In fact, if Crosby continues to age well and can string together a few more 80-90 point seasons, there might be no dispute anymore about the top 6.

That said, I really don't see any good reason why McDavid shouldn't be above Howe if he continues as he is. Mario and Bobby are harder to pass I admit but we shouldn't be close-minded to the idea and refuse to entertain the thought if McDavid keeps racking up scoring titles and by the margins he is doing it this season and in 20/21.
 
Three On Zero said:
McDavid and Crosby will be interchangeable as 5th/6th, depending on what side of the fence you debate from. To have McDavid as a top 3 just shows you didn’t watch the truly great players
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Orr and Howe dominated an era of middle of period cigarette smoking Canadians.

The sport wasn’t yet professional or competitive. Hardly any European players. No soviets. No dominant Americans from places like Arizona. No diversity of race or region in the NHL back then. Small league with small time stars going up against guys that had second jobs. Bush league goalies too. Goons all over the ice.

Most Goalies were jokes back then. Played to midget level of today. Nope. I can’t consider those players great. They were amazing in a non professional era for the sport.

It’s not their fault they are undone by the era in which they played. But it wasn’t a competitive time full of athletic excellence all over the ice like today. A dude like Matt Nieto would have been a super star in 1968.
 
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HFpapi said:
That I am also pretty sure of. In fact, if Crosby continues to age well and can string together a few more 80-90 point seasons, there might be no dispute anymore about the top 6.

That said, I really don't see any good reason why McDavid shouldn't be above Howe if he continues as he is. Mario and Bobby are harder to pass I admit but we shouldn't be close-minded to the idea and refuse to entertain the thought if McDavid keeps racking up scoring titles and by the margins he is doing it this season and in 20/21.
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I really don't see it with Crosby.

"Only" two Art Ross, two rockets and 2 Hart trophies

Thats not in the same league as the others.
 
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