Likely he makes it a "big 5" given the trajectory, in reality Gretzky is in a solo tier and McDavid is not close. At the absolute best I see him make a case for 2nd of all time but that would require something like 6-7 Art Ross given that his peak is lower than Orr and Lemieux+no real playoff success so far(might change of course).
Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time
- Thread starter HFpapi
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If McDavid becomes #2 greatest of all time, it’ll be in the same sense Lebron recently became arguably the #1 greatest of all time
Killer Orcas
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Josey Wales
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Josey Wales
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He can't even sniff Lemieux's Jock Good Lord
Eternal Leaf
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He won't be better than Gretzky or Lemieux.
Lemieux would torch the league in its current state and outdo McDavid too. Pretty much the perfect hockey player build regardless of era.
Lemieux would torch the league in its current state and outdo McDavid too. Pretty much the perfect hockey player build regardless of era.
Zur En Arrh
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not as good as lemieux/gretz/orr/Crosby
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I think he has a chance to be third after Gretzky and Mario, but probably will land in the 4-7 range.
Yes, I know he doesn't have to stay with Edmonton his whole career but he does, for something crazy reason, seem to feel some loyalty there and has already stayed longer than he should have.
i also think that if he leaves and latches onto a top team to win it may diminish the accomplishment in some peoples eyes.
KoozNetsOff 92
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Lol it's always hilarious to see these clueless people try to diminish Howe but at the same time say Orr is undisputed top 3. Howe as a 51 year old put up 41pts in 79/80, but people think he wouldn't be great with modern training, equipment, etc? He'd be the best player today. Also, that was 1 year after Orr retired. But apparently Howe played in some crappy era 100 years ago against plumbers while Orr was some mythical figure who played yesterday. If you're going to crap on Howe, then make sure you crap on Orr who actually did play 1 of the weakest eras ever (expansion era was garbage).
KoozNetsOff 92
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You can't even keep your own argument consistent. In McDavid vs Howe you "value the peak more" even if McDavid doesn't match Howe's longevity. But then for McDavid vs Lemieux/Orr you clearly say "Connor isn't nor will peak higher than Mario or #4 but neither player reached even 1000 games". So is it peak or longevity? As for the question, McDavid will turn the big 4 into a big 5 if he keeps up what he's doing. Gretzky is untouchable in his own tier but the other 3 are all there for the taking. Especially Lemieux and Orr who like you say are severely lacking in longevity.
Hockey seems to be only sport where players who had peak careers from over 30 year ago are somehow god like figures and none can be better than them.
HFpapi
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I’m sorry it took so long for me to come out with it.
it’s not inconsistent. There’s a better balance that can be struck. I value peak more indeed but Orr and Mario were ravaged with injuries and played less than 1000 games each. 7-8 art rosses and 1800-2000 points while playing 1400 games is a better career than Orr, Mario, Howe as far as I’m concerned.
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Gretzky literally changed the way the game was played and then coached. He didn’t perfect a template that everybody else was using, he created the template and brought the game along with him. Give the guy modern equipment and training and he’d dominate just as much today. People forget he played a significant portion of his career with a wrecked back that affected his shot.
McDavid needs to first show he can drive his team through a single playoff series where the teams are matched. Beating an injury riddled LA team without Doughty doesn’t count… he could get them past the lower seeded Winnipeg in 20/21 (he’s a better player now though). The guy is Elite and the best player in the game but has not yet met my (granted strict) definition of, the grossly overused term, generational. Sure he can get points but he had to play winning hockey when it counts. For the record I think he gets there. Whilst I don’t think he needs to win a cup he needs conference finals as a minimum, where he dominates.
McDavid needs to first show he can drive his team through a single playoff series where the teams are matched. Beating an injury riddled LA team without Doughty doesn’t count… he could get them past the lower seeded Winnipeg in 20/21 (he’s a better player now though). The guy is Elite and the best player in the game but has not yet met my (granted strict) definition of, the grossly overused term, generational. Sure he can get points but he had to play winning hockey when it counts. For the record I think he gets there. Whilst I don’t think he needs to win a cup he needs conference finals as a minimum, where he dominates.
Golden_Jet
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How the Golden Jet Got Jacked
Few people know this but there's an old black-and-white photo of Bobby 'the Golden Jet' Hull circulating the Internet, ripped out of his mind.(For those uninitiated in old time hockey-lore, Bobby Hull was a HUGE star for the Chicago Blackhawks in the 1960's.Scored the most goals in a season...
next-level-athletics.com
Video Nasty
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As always, I’m assuming a full, relatively healthy career when I share my following opinion and the nature of the topic forces me to comment on “what if?”
I firmly feel that McDavid will be at worst, the consensus #5 all time, which we just don’t have as of today because there’s about 8-10 players in the history of game who all have compelling cases.
I think it’s even more likely that he remolds the current Big Four into a new Big Five.
What do I mean by that really?
That it can be argued he deserves to be higher than #5. Not necessarily that he will be recognized at large as such, but that the argument can be constructed reasonably.
It’s going to be very hard for someone to argue against a player with 7-10 Art Rosses, 4-6 Harts with another handful of finalist nominations, 5-7 Lindsays, 700 goals/2000 points, and whatever other feats he’s on course to accomplish as not anywhere from #2-5.
Then there will be a portion of the crowd who will look at what McDavid has managed to do in a league with 32 teams and full of players who dedicate 100% of their life to the game and rightfully give some bonus credit.
Factor in Orr and Lemieux playing half careers and it opens up the door. There will always be those who favor full results over what ifs. Factor in more and more people who champion Howe and Orr dying off and being replaced by people who only know a post 2005 hockey world and there’s going to be less pushback when people begin to rank players differently. If people could try and discredit Gretzky as early as the late 90s, it’s not unimaginable to see that behavior multiply.
Just as much as I post incessantly about McDavid, I am on here to protect the history of the game just as much.
But some people need a reality check. The status quo doesn’t last forever. Whether it is true or not, whether it is fair or not, life goes on and it is human nature to think something is the best it’s ever been in the current moment. It is also human nature to cling to the past and nostalgia as much as possible. It is also human nature to grow tired, old, and stubborn; unable to consider new viewpoints and ways of thinking. It is why most get stuck on the entertainment of their formative years. It is why unless someone makes an effort, they think that music is shit now and it isn’t as good as the old days.
I think McDavid will fit into the top 5 if he continues his current trajectory and it shouldn’t shock anyone that he will be argued as the best to ever play, or least behind Gretzky, by an ever growing segment and it will be natural.
That is of course if he continues to fill up the insane cabinet case he is on track for and wins some Cups along the way.
I firmly feel that McDavid will be at worst, the consensus #5 all time, which we just don’t have as of today because there’s about 8-10 players in the history of game who all have compelling cases.
I think it’s even more likely that he remolds the current Big Four into a new Big Five.
What do I mean by that really?
That it can be argued he deserves to be higher than #5. Not necessarily that he will be recognized at large as such, but that the argument can be constructed reasonably.
It’s going to be very hard for someone to argue against a player with 7-10 Art Rosses, 4-6 Harts with another handful of finalist nominations, 5-7 Lindsays, 700 goals/2000 points, and whatever other feats he’s on course to accomplish as not anywhere from #2-5.
Then there will be a portion of the crowd who will look at what McDavid has managed to do in a league with 32 teams and full of players who dedicate 100% of their life to the game and rightfully give some bonus credit.
Factor in Orr and Lemieux playing half careers and it opens up the door. There will always be those who favor full results over what ifs. Factor in more and more people who champion Howe and Orr dying off and being replaced by people who only know a post 2005 hockey world and there’s going to be less pushback when people begin to rank players differently. If people could try and discredit Gretzky as early as the late 90s, it’s not unimaginable to see that behavior multiply.
Just as much as I post incessantly about McDavid, I am on here to protect the history of the game just as much.
But some people need a reality check. The status quo doesn’t last forever. Whether it is true or not, whether it is fair or not, life goes on and it is human nature to think something is the best it’s ever been in the current moment. It is also human nature to cling to the past and nostalgia as much as possible. It is also human nature to grow tired, old, and stubborn; unable to consider new viewpoints and ways of thinking. It is why most get stuck on the entertainment of their formative years. It is why unless someone makes an effort, they think that music is shit now and it isn’t as good as the old days.
I think McDavid will fit into the top 5 if he continues his current trajectory and it shouldn’t shock anyone that he will be argued as the best to ever play, or least behind Gretzky, by an ever growing segment and it will be natural.
That is of course if he continues to fill up the insane cabinet case he is on track for and wins some Cups along the way.
You just don't know alot about other sports it seems.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Drop him into 1988 and he is better than Wayne and Mario, and better than Orr was in his prime as well. I believe he is the best hockey player who has ever lived, but at the same time not the greatest player of all time...yet. There is a difference.
He needs to keep doing it again and again, accumulating scoring titles and individual trophies...and yes a Stanley Cup will solidify it.
It literally gives me a reason to watch hockey for the next decade. Exciting times.
As a kid, I had posters of Gretz and Mario on my wall. I idolized them both.
McDavid is a better player than either of them. He can do everything they did, but faster. It gives me a little pain to say that.
Will he have a better career? We shall see.
He needs to keep doing it again and again, accumulating scoring titles and individual trophies...and yes a Stanley Cup will solidify it.
It literally gives me a reason to watch hockey for the next decade. Exciting times.
As a kid, I had posters of Gretz and Mario on my wall. I idolized them both.
McDavid is a better player than either of them. He can do everything they did, but faster. It gives me a little pain to say that.
Will he have a better career? We shall see.
Arthur Morgan
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McDavid is in a class of his own, but it’s going to be hard for him to pass some of those guys that were in a class of their own in the past if he never wins at least one cup. He still has plenty of time to do it. But it’s not really worth talking about until he does.
Josey Wales
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UMMMM Sizzlechest I have seen more hockey in my life than you even will & It is not funny to make fun of Dementia maybe Mommy or Daddy Or especially Grammy & Pappy will get it
NO he is NOT in a class of his own
