Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[Dempsey]

Lol imagine thinking the second best player ever getting swept twice in a 2 year span at his peak. Lmfaoooo

There's an intelligent conversation about hockey history going on here, and then you come along with this.

Anyway back on topic. I don't really see a likely way that McDavid can push his way into the top 4 unless his longevity starts to create it based on pure career numbers.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

There's an intelligent conversation about hockey history going on here, and then you come along with this.

Anyway back on topic. I don't really see a likely way that McDavid can push his way into the top 4 unless his longevity starts to create it based on pure career numbers.

Which of the big 4 ever got swept?

 

[Goulet17]

I don't see how someone could realistically have him ahead of anyone in the top-4 currently (Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe). He is still likely behind several players all-time as well, but he still has his career to play out.

To knock someone out of the top-4, he will need to win a few Cups and produce several more seasons like this one. Even then, he likely will be statistically behind the top-4 at the end of his career.
McDavid has been remarkably healthy for most of his career, which certainly helps. We'll see if that continues. He may train hard, but he has never come across as someone who should be physically impervious to injuries.

 

[NyQuil]

So many hot takes in this thread.

Spicy.

 

[hamzarocks]

Im going to take your stats as true, regardless of your ignorance on the next point.

How is 2 seasons of 25-30 pts equal to 117 point separation?

I was saying that he has two really true peak years where he is far and away ahead of the competiton (25-30 pts better)

The other 6 seasons he is around 5-10 pts ahead which isnt as crazy dominant and not in line with how 99 and 66 dominated when healthy

 

[Dempsey]

Which of the big 4 ever got swept?

I actually said he's not likely to get into the big 4 so you're arguing with someone who agrees on that point. But since you asked:

Bobby Orr and the Bruins swept in 1967-68
Wayne Gretzky and the Oilers swept in 1979-80
Wayne Gretzky and the Oilers swept in 1982-83
Gordie Howe and the Red Wings swept in 1957-58
Gordie Howe and the Red Wings swept in 1969-70

 

[sinDer]

He might end up 1st if he passes/gets close to Gretzky in Rosses/Harts/Lindsay

But the best and greatest player to play the sport of hockey is Mario Lemieux

The 2001 season is for me his most amazing. 76 pts in 43 games in the dead puck era coming off three years of being retired. He was better than 2023 Mcdavid by a significant margin

Mcdavid would be Draisaitl to Lemieux

I agree about Lemieux.
That 2001 season just prove that we was really on another level compared to his peer.

He’s the best player of all time and I’m not sure if that’s even debatable.

 

[Three On Zero]

These opinions are going to look more and more foolish as time goes on. Not interested in debating McDavid > Crosby any more than I am the color of the sky with you. It just is.

At least you agree the opinion that he’s better than Crosby is foolish

 

[Skolman]

Which of the big 4 ever got swept?

Yes, because that's on 97.

Guy was having a historic playoff run.

 

[Over the volcano]

Don't think he gets past Gretzky for #2 behind Orr

He’s honestly the most gifted player to ever play.

He’ll never touch Gretzky’s records but in terms of just pure hockey ability he has a very good case as being the most talented player ever.

It’ll be a “Big 5“ by the time his career is done.

Seems right

 

[GoBuds14]

He might pass Mario in Harts and Art Ross awards which would be impressive, with some playoff success maybe he makes it a debate. I think he would also need multiple seasons still of 120+ points though

 

[bleedgreen]

He’s the best player since the Gretzky/Lemieux era, no question. Ive seen things from him this year that put him much closer to the top of the pile but now it comes down to longevity and wins. Can he be as good as he was this year for a handful of years? The other two had an unfair advantage of having elite teams surrounding them that took years to complete. The Oilers are imo just coming around now to being a solid-ish team around him, hardly the Oilers or Pens of old. Those two got to the top quicker because of it and 97 is playing catch up. That will hold him back in the end and it’s completely out of his control.

I’d love to see him get 156 and knock out Yzerman for the best non Lemiuex/Gretzky season ever. That would help a bit. People forget how good young Yzerman was.

 

[cupface52]

I agree about Lemieux.
That 2001 season just prove that we was really on another level compared to his peer.

He’s the best player of all time and I’m not sure if that’s even debatable.

2001 when Jagr outscored Lemieux in the games he did play?

Gretzky had 6 seasons of 180+ points, with 4 of them being 200+. Lemieux scored over 170 once. Lemieux with a career high of 102 ESP, Gretzky beating that number 7 times. Gretzky lead the league in scoring on ESP alone 6 times, just as many times Lemieux lead the league in scoring. Lemieux was better because... he looked fancier?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Which of the big 4 ever got swept?

This is such a pathetic argument, even from you.

I know you despise McDavid. We get it. We know you went from “he can’t produce in the playoffs to” this asinine argument. He’s about to hit 150 points, even though you held on for dear life that Kucherov was better because….he reached 128 points.

McDavid could win a cup, conn Smythe and you’ll find some way to belittle his achievements because of your petty hatred. Just appreciate the greatness instead of trying to pull a Dick Beddoes.

But then again, you’re never interested in actual discussion. You just lump Team achievements when comparing individual players. Puddle deep analysis.

 

[wetcoast]

He’s not better than Mario, sorry. Nobody was better then Mario pure talent wise (even Wayne)

Sure but if we are only going to judge on talent than Kent Magic man Nilsson is a top 10 guy of all time right?

There is more than just raw scoring that goes into the equation.

 

[GrumpyKoala]

Big 4 is just another weird American metric for Head carving per Rock cliff, lenght by football field. or Area by Texas

But yes, even though I love mario, he currently being recarve.

 

[Tuna99]

Sure but if we are only going to judge on talent than Kent Magic man Nilsson is a top 10 guy of all time right?

There is more than just raw scoring that goes into the equation.

Okay, until McDavid wins a Cup get back to me

 

[wetcoast]

might be the best post iv'e ever read

It was a good post but the "clutch and grab" that I was referring too was in the later 90s not the watered down 70s.

But even in the watered down 70s Orr was a true "tilt the ice ice player in Boston and even in limited games for a crappy Black Hawks team in the twilight of his career.

 

[barkovcanfinnish]

Well, he’ll need at least another 6 seasons like this one to be up with Gretzky and Lemieux but he’s certainly on track to be in that conversation.

Some more postseason success would help his case too.

 

[wetcoast]

Which of the big 4 ever got swept?

Which of the big 4 ever played on a team as badly constructed as the Oilers?

Heck even last year when they got swept by the Avs, the Avs made TB look like crap in the SC final game where they just controlled the last 10 minutes of a close game.

Your comments, and I say this respectively , are trivial and just aren't adding to the conversation here.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Big 4 is just another weird American metric for Head carving per Rock cliff, lenght by football field. or Area by Texas

But yes, even though I love mario, he currently being recarve.

I can assure you, Big Four is not an Americanism.

It's created by the Canadian fans to describe four Canadian players.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Fairly or unfairly, I measure true elite player successes in championshps. At the very least, Finals appearances.

He is definitely the most exciting to watch, ahead of Jagr, Bure, Wayne and Mario of my childhood.. Anytime he gets thd puck you sense that he is updated A.I. model compared to the others. However...no rings...

Discuss.

 

[wetcoast]

I agree about Lemieux.
That 2001 season just prove that we was really on another level compared to his peer.

He’s the best player of all time and I’m not sure if that’s even debatable.

Well it's extremely debatable as most people have Orr, Howe or Greztky ahead of him.

There is some good reading and discussion here on the Big 4.

Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 1

Procedure You will be presented with 10+ players based on their ranking in the Round 1 aggregate list (10 players plus anyone with 99% of the voting points of the 10th ranked player) Players will be listed in alphabetical order to avoid creating bias You will submit ten names in a ranked order...

forums.hfboards.com

I can assure you, Big Four is not an Americanism.

It's created by the Canadian fans to describe four Canadian players.

Honestly I don't recall the history of the Big 4 but I'm pretty sure there are a lot of references to Mt Rushmore with the Big 4.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I can assure you, Big Four is not an Americanism.

It's created by the Canadian fans to describe four Canadian players.

I like how the term can be used to describe hockey players, thrash metal bands, and accounting firms.

 

[North Cole]

Which of the big 4 ever got swept?

Lmao literally Gretzky got swept... go back to sleep

This is like that dumb Jordan and Montana argument that never losing in the finals increases their mythos because losing the round the before is somehow better...