Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

McDavid is the best skilled hockey player to have played the game .

He's more gifted that 66 or 99.
If he played in the same time as them he would have gotten better results .

 

[JTB1974]

He needs to win a Stanley Cup or two.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

There has been a "big four" in hockey for the last 25 years...McDavid has the potential to make it a "big five". I jdon't foresee him ever being though of as in an echelon above guys like Gretzky and Lemieux though.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Anyone who's gonna use smoke and mirrors/slight of hand (VsX) to try and prop McDavid above Gretz/Lemieux is an oil salesman.

It can't be done, but they are trying....

 

[johan f]

Skillwise he is more than amazing. But he is too much playing for himself to be considered a great player that belongs above the very best.

 

[Canovin]

Gretzky never had the best skating stickhandling or shooting.


You're not really understanding why Gretzky was considered the best by a landslide, but it wasn't his raw skills.

It was because the goalies suck and no defense. Look at how small the goalie was compared to the net

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[Beukeboom]

McDavid is the best skilled hockey player to have played the game .

He's more gifted that 66 or 99.
If he played in the same time as them he would have gotten better results .

Is a skill only limited to speed and ability to deke during high speeds? What about adaptability, competitiveness, the ability to make others around you better? There are so many skills and I find people being blinded by the mere flashy ones.

And even so, there is NO way McDavid has better puck skills than Lemieux. I've seen them both play enough to be certain of that.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Gretzky, no. Hence why I didn't even mention him in the OP and said max 2nd best. Bobby and Super Mario? Certainly am not claiming the likelihood is high, I was being a bit provocative in the title saying "will go down as" rather than "could potentially."

That said, I don't think it's impossible given what we've seen from McDavid so far. Connor can exploit their lack of games played if everything goes right for him. I'm talking roughly 8 Rosses, 6 Harts, 1800-2000 points and likely a cup is needed too. I think that would be a better career than either Orr or Lemieux even if his peak isn't quite as high. Can we honestly say that's not possible for McDavid? As of now it looks very achievable in fact.

Howe? I actually think it's very possible to pass Howe and I will be so bold as to say that I consider it more likely than not that McDavid passes Howe.

I'll assign percentages.

Chances McDavid passes the following:

Gretzky: 0%
Lemieux: 5-10%
Orr: 5-10%
Howe: 60%
Crosby: 90%

people argue Orr was better than Gretzky as well so not sure how anyone will ever agree McDavid>Orr
cant see McDavid over taking Lemieux in all time standings.
not going to lie, I think it's going to be a tough conversation to place McDavid 5th.

 

[icerocket]

To best 2nd best all time he needs:

3 cups
Break 2000 regular season points.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Is a skill only limited to speed and ability to deke during high speeds? What about adaptability, competitiveness, the ability to make others around you better? There are so many skills and I find people being blinded by the mere flashy ones.

And even so, there is NO way McDavid has better puck skills than Lemieux. I've seen them both play enough to be certain of that.

He is better in all those aspects. Don't forget the difficulty of skill changed during the years.
Perhaps we could say he's not physical or good defensively who at his lvl nobody cares.
In terms of puck skills Mcdavid eats Lemieux alive. nobody has been faster and more trickyish than Mcdavid at the speed he's doing it.

Also im pretty sure that Mcdavid saved careers like Crosby did in Pittsburgh with Dupuis etc.

He could be on pace for 140-150 points season.
His team have a mediocre bottom 6
Terrible goalies
and putrid defense to support him.

Also The guy that pretty much carried them alone in the playoffs and ended with 33 points and they got eliminatied in only 4 games in the west final.

At this pace he could get his 1000th regular point before the end of the next season in modern hockey at his 9th season.

It took 12 seasons for Crosby to do so. in modern hockey also.

Stats are there , the only thing he doesnt have his a team that can support him.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

There, I said it.

The big 4 has been mythologized and deified but it’s been fine since no player has made a compelling argument to question the sanctity of it until now.

Crosby made an argument for 5th best of all-time but even without losing those three seasons of his prime, I don’t think he was ever a serious threat to Howe/Orr/Super Mario.

McDavid is peaking higher than Howe right now. He’s simply a better player and I’m done pretending that he’s not. (Insert Joker meme).

Howe has legendary longevity but Connor has been very healthy and shows no signs of slowing down. Even if he doesn’t match Howes’ longevity (who can) I value the peak more.

Also, far be it for me to discredit the OG’s, we simply have to factor into the equation that Howe played in a 6 team league against almost exclusively Canadians. We simply have to acknowledge how much more competition McDavid has. He’s being trailed in the scoring race by a German, Russian, and Czech. That simply didn’t happen in Howes’ day.

Connor isn’t nor will he peak higher than Mario or #4 but neither player reached even 1000 games.

If McDavid wins 7-8 scoring titles and 5-6 MVP’s and plays 1400 games I think you have to put him number #2 all-time.

Either way, it’s incredible what we are witnessing right now.

Thoughts? Will McDavid be #2 of all-time when the dust settles?

Probably not. I haven't seen him put on the goalie pads, but he could hold a candle to Hasek or even Brodeur. I mean Hasek even had a roller hockey career.

The debate will always be:

Orr vs Gretzky

 

[MCR74]

There has been a "big four" in hockey for the last 25 years...McDavid has the potential to make it a "big five". I jdon't foresee him ever being though of as in an echelon above guys like Gretzky and Lemieux though.

Anyone who does is flat out delusional.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

So many peoples top 4 players of all time

Wayne Gretzky
10 Art Ross Trophies, 9 Hart Trophies, 5 Pearson Trophies, 2 Conn Smythe Trophies.
He wasn't the biggest or the strongest or the fastest player but he was simply the best because of his vision, passing ability and hockey IQ and dominated like no one thought possible winning Art Ross Trophies by insane margins. 2 out of his last 3 seasons still lead the NHL in assists while in his later half of 30's year old.

Mario Lemieux
Big and highly skilled player who has 6 Art Ross Trophies, 4 Pearson Trophies, 3 Hart Trophies and 2 Conn Smythe Trophies. Came back from serious health issues to still be a dominate offensive force.

Bobby Orr
Only defeseneman to win a Art Ross Trophy and he did it 2 times as well winning 8 Norris Trophies to go along with 3 Hart Trophies, 2 Conn Smythe Trophies and a Pearson Trophy. Career shortened by knee issues

Gordie Howe
6 Time Hart and Art Ross Trophy winner to go with 21 times either being a 1st or 2nd NHL All-Star Team. Played hockey into his 50 and in his final season had 41 points in 80 NHL games. Shots Right (sometimes left). Also played in the WHA winning a Gary L. Davidson Award Trophy and 2 time 1st WHA All-Star Team.

All these players have won multiple Championships.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Conner McDavid is a great young player but finishing at top 2 best ever is something that is hard to believe will happen.

You he to admit is was easier winning championships in a pre-cap, 6 to 21 team league. When Gordie played it was a 6 team league, and 2 of those teams were terrible every year. He basically had a 1/4 chance every year.

Put McDavid in the semifinals every year for a decade. My guess is he would win multiple championships as well.

Gretzky played with half a dozen other HOFers. That team would cost $200 million today. Same with Mario - Jagr, Francis, Trottier, Coffey, Murphy, Recchi, Stevens, Mullen, Ulfie...

McDavid has Draisaitl, two less than average goalies and Nurse.

 

[blundluntman]

Give Gretzky and Lemieux composite sticks and modern skates (not to mention 2 line passes) and they'd look better than McDavid. People always forget these things when these arguments come up. McDavid has a clear advantage equipment wise when it comes to all time discussions. And even with all that, he's not close to their peak levels of production. People need to be realistic and ignore recency bias.

 

[Coffey]

To best 2nd best all time he needs:

3 cups
Break 2000 regular season points.

Or one cup with this Oiler squad

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Impossible. Wayne Gretzky went back in a time machine to play as an Oiler. That way Connor can never use the argument "I didn't win any cups because I was draftedbby the Oilers". That easilydrops McDavid out of the top 10

 

[Ianturnedbull]

There should be a referendum here.

The best hockey players are the ones who wear pads and goalie masks.

Why are forwards considered the only GOATS in this discussion.

Sad really...

Also "Connor McDavid in the 80's" was easily shot down by "Boone Jenner in the 20's".

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

It was because the goalies suck and no defense. Look at how small the goalie was compared to the net

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So same can be said for Lemieux then also, right?

 

[GMR]

McDavid is the best skilled hockey player to have played the game .

He's more gifted that 66 or 99.
If he played in the same time as them he would have gotten better results .

Mario had better hands and a better shot. McDavid obviously has better speed and quickness.

Your last statement is a guess. If he played in their era, he'd have worse equipment and party more frequently. What better results could he get? Would he score 300 points? 100 goals? It's impossible to have better numbers than Gretzky had back then.

 

[authentic]

Mario had better hands and a better shot. McDavid obviously has better speed and quickness.

Your last statement is a guess. If he played in their era, he'd have worse equipment and party more frequently. What better results could he get? Would he score 300 points? 100 goals? It's impossible to have better numbers than Gretzky had back then.

Better hands not really. But it's not a fair comparison because of the sticks they use. He certainly didn't come close to displaying the stickhandling speed McDavid does and couldn't fire wristers nearly as fast as McDavid does today, but once again not a fair comparison.

 

[GMR]

Better hands not really. But it's not a fair comparison because of the sticks they use. He certainly didn't come close to displaying the stickhandling speed McDavid does and couldn't fire wristers nearly as fast as McDavid does today, but once again not a fair comparison.

Lemieux is arguably the best stickhandler ever. McDavid is a great stickhandler, but there's other players in recent memory who could pull fancier moves than Connor. He just stickhandles at full speed like nobody else since Bure.

 

[Lou Sassole]

Will never get above Mario or Wayne.

This, Mario would score so many points today, without guys hooking, holding, slashing, him all the way up the ice. I'm a Caps fan, so I have no love for him, but greatness is greatness, and McDavid isn't gonna pass him.

 

[authentic]

Lemieux is arguably the best stickhandler ever. McDavid is a great stickhandler, but there's other players in recent memory who could pull fancier moves than Connor. He just stickhandles at full speed like nobody else since Bure.

So in what way was Lemieux a better stickhandler really? He maybe had the softest hands but his actual stickhandling ability was not on McDavid's current level, no one's was before composite sticks.

 

[K Fleur]

This is a truly transcendent season for McDavid. The kind of season that only players like Gretzky, Howe, Orr, and Lemieux have achieved.

I think if you’re being overly, and probably unnecessarily cautious to not atleast entertain the notion that he belongs in those players class.

 

[Canovin]

The 80s looks like pond hockey compared to today's game. Send this version of McDavid to the 80s and he would decimate the records