Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[lextune]

McDavid had more goals in the finals in 7 games than Crosby has in 20+. Add the fact that he’s been basically stellar through out the first 3 rounds as well multiple times.

Sure. I have already said elsewhere in the thread that McDavid is destined to be a top 5 player all-time.
I was just pointing out the fact that the Pens don't even sniff the Finals without Crosby.

 

[Stephen]

But he didn't.

Hopefully he will in time.

This is one of the many reasons points are misleading.

He had 2 monster games in the finals but wasn't as dominant as raw numbers would make it seem.

I don’t think the numbers are necessarily misleading. They just set him up for that show case moment where he goes off and puts the signature moment on top of an all-time performance. But he didn’t. Like you said.

That’s why for me, someone like Patrick Kane is so, so special. Whatever shortcomings he has, that third period would have been a Patrick Kane party.

 

[pi314]

I don’t think the numbers are necessarily misleading. They just set him up for that show case moment where he goes off and puts the signature moment on top of an all-time performance. But he didn’t. Like you said.

That’s why for me, someone like Patrick Kane is so, so special. Whatever shortcomings he has, that third period would have been a Patrick Kane party.

If Patrick Kane was a car part, he would be the clutch.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

in time maybe he will. I find it really tough to really seriously rank players across eras though. I find the "adjusted stats" to be nothing but bs. so it really comes down to who you view as the top 5. however it will prob be extremely difficult to pass Gretzky, Orr or Lemieux on a consensus list but who knows. it might be possible. I still think he needs a Cup to seriously help his chances. all his awards and 100 assists and conn smythe in a cup loss help his argument but prob still needs that ring to have a serious chance a bumping one of them out

 

[gretzkyoilers]

Superstars winning championships is kind of benchmark of sports storytelling. Think it makes it easier to sell a sport, understand a sport, track the pedigree of stars and spark those debates. So I think the NHL lost more last night than it understands. Had McDavid won you could market him as the present day Gretzky. We are witnessing someone who could be the GOAT. It adds hype to guys like Bedard who could be the next McDavid. With Edmonton losing it’s not really the same.

Yup! So who will the NHL market from the Panthers? Barkov? Tkachuk? Bobrovsky? This has been a problem for a while now. Whether you like McDavid or not he is the NHL's best ambassador for the sport. Look at how Gretzky was marketed in the 80's and 90's. He was everywhere. Non-sport fans knew who he was.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Sure. I have already said elsewhere in the thread that McDavid is destined to be a top 5 player all-time.
I was just pointing out the fact that the Pens don't even sniff the Finals without Crosby.

Of course. I never said otherwise.

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Maybe but Tretiak is such a random player to choose that I don't really get the context lol

Random? Then Wayne Gretzky is random, too, I guess

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Yup! So who will the NHL market from the Panthers? Barkov? Tkachuk? Bobrovsky? This has been a problem for a while now. Whether you like McDavid or not he is the NHL's best ambassador for the sport. Look at how Gretzky was marketed in the 80's and 90's. He was everywhere. Non-sport fans knew who he was.

Gretz had to go to LA to increase exposure to the game, where does McDavid go?

 

[blundluntman]

Random? Then Wayne Gretzky is random, too, I guess

Look I'm a bigger fan of Tretiak than most, but I've never seen him ranked anywhere higher than top 30 all time, let alone top 2

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Look I'm a bigger fan of Tretiak than most, but I've never seen him ranked anywhere higher than top 30 all time, let alone top 2

Well, congratulations, you just saw him in top 2.
I'm not a fan of Tretiak, but he's had a tremendous impact on goaltending.

 

[gretzkyoilers]

Gretz had to go to LA to increase exposure to the game, where does McDavid go?

LA then the Rangers!

 

[blundluntman]

Well, congratulations, you just saw him in top 2.
I'm not a fan of Tretiak, but he's had a tremendous impact on goaltending.

Wholeheartedly agree. One of the greatest goalies of all time and a great goaltending coach as well (inspired Belfour and Nabokov to change their numbers to 20). Glad to see him getting some praise, just haven't seen it to that degree before.

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Wholeheartedly agree. One of the greatest goalies of all time and a great goaltending coach as well (inspired Belfour and Nabokov to change their numbers to 20). Glad to see him getting some praise, just haven't seen it to that degree before.

Thank you for your kind words.

Also -- didn't he coach Hasek in Chicago?

 

[blundluntman]

Thank you for your kind words.

Also -- didn't he coach Hasek in Chicago?

Yeah Hasek and Belfour back in the early 90s. Keenan thought he was still good enough to play in the league back in his late 30s IIRC lol

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Yeah Hasek and Belfour back in the early 90s. Keenan thought he was still good enough to play in the league back in his late 30s IIRC lol

Amazing !

 

[bambamcam4ever]

But he didn't.

Hopefully he will in time.

This is one of the many reasons points are misleading.

He had 2 monster games in the finals but wasn't as dominant as raw numbers would make it seem.

Kind of like the Steph Curry of the NHL. Puts up incredible numbers when the game is out of hand to boost his averages, but in competitive games he's often disappointing.

 

[Craig Button]

Right behind

1. Gretzky
1. Lemieux
1. Orr
1. Howe
1. Messier
1. Jagr
1. Sakic
1. Yzerman
1. Crosby

Then

2. McDavid

 

[VistamarCroissants]

Right behind

1. Gretzky
1. Lemieux
1. Orr
1. Howe
1. Messier
1. Jagr
1. Sakic
1. Yzerman
1. Crosby

Then

2. McDavid

you forgot to add:

1. Verhaeghe
1. Bobrovsky

 

[Craig Button]

you forgot to add:

1. Verhaeghe
1. Bobrovsky

I knew I forgot some more names

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I do think Edmonton has a shot if they get rid of Kane and Perry and add genuine veterans or stars under good contracts. Like maybe Chychrun would be what the Oilers should pick-up and try getting Tyler Toffoli.

 

[TimeZone]

 

[Turin]

1 and 2 will be Gretzky and Lemieux in any order barring unforeseen circumstances.

 

[edog37]

Tell that to Crosby. The dude was handily outplayed by Logan Couture.

When was that? He was solidly good at best. He was just one of many good guys on a stacked team.

Did you not watch the 2016/17 Final? The Golden Goal in 2010?

 

[Turin]

Tell that to Crosby. The dude was handily outplayed by Logan Couture.

I don't think anybody who watched that series actually thinks that.

You really think Coutures 3 points in game 5, in which Pittsburgh ran San Jose's show up and down the ice but Jones outplayed Murray by a mile, means Couture outplayed Sid? Coming out of that series not a soul believed Couture outplayed Crosby.

 

[WalterLundy]

Did you not watch the 2016/17 Final? The Golden Goal in 2010?

I have a genuine question for you from one pens fan (and Pittsburgher it seems) to another. Do you actually believe that Crosby is better than McDavid and will rank higher than him even at the end of
McDavid’s career? Not going to be overly critical of your answer just genuinely curious.

The way that I personally look at it is that through the same point in their careers (first 9 years or 645 games whichever you choose) McDavid is clearly ahead statistically for the overall comparison, prime stretch, peak season and best playoff performances. This holds true for regular stats and era adjusted as well. He also currently at age 27 has more individual hardware than Crosby does in his entire career.

That is impossible to argue against so I’m assuming that for you it comes down to winning the big one and since Crosby has more championships that’s what does it but I could be wrong as I’m only assuming. To that I’d say that for ones playoff performances to be statistically superior to Crosby’s we are looking at a matter of better teams (16 and 17 penguins) coupled with Malkin’s 09 dominance/Talbot heroism in game 7 for the other. Of course Crosby played well in all three playoff runs as well but McDavid isn’t merely playing well here we have the best performance statistically of all time in the playoffs when adjusted this year. This also wouldn’t be enough to tilt it in Sid’s favor either in my opinion but yeah. Anyway not trying to be condescending or start an argument just curious what other pens fans seem to think.