Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[Stephen]

The sport would have been better off had Connor McDavid been able to pull off the cup win last night. With 1 goal, 1 assist in a 3-2 win his stature would have grown by leaps and bounds.

 

[Lara Emily]

The sport would have been better off had Connor McDavid been able to pull off the cup win last night. With 1 goal, 1 assist in a 3-2 win his stature would have grown by leaps and bounds.

Absolutely

 

[WalterLundy]

You can tell Crosby is generational because his name pops up more than McDavid’s in a thread with McDavid’s name on the title…

He definitely is generational no denying that but not all generational talents are created equal as well. I was fortunate enough to see Gretzky and Lemieux’s careers in their entirety and while Crosby is also under the generational tag, Gretzky is a different tier.

The reason why many believe McDavid can end up second all time as the thread suggests is because of his stats, dominance over peers for full seasons and accumulation of individual hardware. Only Gretzky (and Orr arguably with the Norris run) were more decorated individually by age 27 but only Gretzky for forwards. Also I think Crosby is brought up a bunch due to gatekeeping when it isn’t needed or even valid. I say this as someone who has had Crosby 5th all time for a while now but if McDavid hasn’t passed him yet it’s inevitable. I just try to be fair.

 

[Lara Emily]

Also on topic he'll definitely be top 10 unless he like is forcedto retire shockingly early or something, somewhere between 4-7 depending on who you ask (jagr, Crosby McDavid, Howe are solidly in those slots you pick where)

But #2 no, I wouldn't even say 3, Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr is basically unbeatable.

 

[TooManyHumans]

He definitely is generational no denying that but not all generational talents are created equal as well. I was fortunate enough to see Gretzky and Lemieux’s careers in their entirety and while Crosby is also under the generational tag, Gretzky is a different tier.

The reason why many believe McDavid can end up second all time as the thread suggests is because of his stats, dominance over peers for full seasons and accumulation of individual hardware. Only Gretzky (and Orr arguably with the Norris run) were more decorated individually by age 27 but only Gretzky for forwards. Also I think Crosby is brought up a bunch due to gatekeeping when it isn’t needed or even valid. I say this as someone who has had Crosby 5th all time for a while now but if McDavid hasn’t passed him yet it’s inevitable. I just try to be fair.

Crosby and McDavid are just so different. McDavid has every bit of physical talent you could ever want for in a hockey player. Crosby was never the most physically talented at anything that I could see. He just grinded and elevated his game through hard work and hockey intelligence. If McDavid gets everything out of his physical talent that Crosby got out of his, then McDavid will end up as the greatest hockey player of all time.

 

[GreatGonzo]

The bold game was big game. The weightage is heavier. Although every game matters, that bold game is "where your legacy matter" (Although I should put bold on game 6 2017 too where Syd is not performing)

I give you one example. Craig Button says that both Verhaeghe and Reinhart are not performing well in SCF (which is true considering one of them is playoff killer and one of them is 50+ goalscorer)..... until game 7 where both of them score the goals to win the cup for the first time for the Panthers. Their legacy already set.

McD does not have it.... yet. Sit down and relax.

Crosby had 1 goal between those two playoff series you are trying far too hard. Crosby benefited from a better overall team and other players stepping up, all while Drai, Hyman, and Bouchard were basically no shows this past series. McDavid almost put up more points in a finals than Crosby two best finals combined

Go ahead and show Crosby in game 6 and 7 against Detroit, I’ll wait….

Also, let’s not pretend like like games 4 and 5 weren’t elimination games. You can twist the narrative all you want, it’s only making you look like the typical McDavid hater/Crosby jock rider

 

[Mohar Ikram]

Crosby had 1 goal between those two playoff series you are trying far too hard. Crosby benefited from a better overall team and other players stepping up, all while Drai, Hyman, and Bouchard were basically no shows this past series. McDavid almost put up more points in a finals than Crosby two best finals combined

Go ahead and show Crosby in game 6 and 7 against Detroit, I’ll wait….

Also, let’s not pretend like like games 4 and 5 weren’t elimination games. You can twist the narrative all you want, it’s only making you look like the typical McDavid hater/Crosby jock rider

Even though I did say McDavid has instrumental game in game 5? Plus, to say Edm doesn't have depth is ridiculous. That game 6 is all depth performance. Same as game 6 in WCF against Dallas.

I don't put his 2009 final because that was his fourth season and yes, he is being carried in that final. I do admit in 2009, he is not the actual main guy (Malkin, Staal and Talbot saved that series).

But, that is only one of his bad final (and 2008 too where they lost) but people point that out as a point that Crosby is weaker than McDavid.... Ever (which is not the case).

One more thing that gross me out is people putting McD as "second best player ever OF ALL TIME" even though he won jackshit for his team. I get the excitement to think how his career might end but calm down first. That's what sit down and relax meant. He is not that good yet.

Oh, and Crosby was not even top 5 in my personal list. So, I'm not defending him because I like him. I'm defending him because he has done greater things and won in his career when he is younger, as same as, and older than McDavid now.

You guys compare them and said depth like saying Crosby playing with 30 HOF whilst McDavid playing with 30 ECHL level player all their career. Gross.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Even though I did say McDavid has instrumental game in game 5? Plus, to say Edm doesn't have depth is ridiculous. That game 6 is all depth performance. Same as game 6 in WCF against Dallas.

I don't put his 2009 final because that was his fourth season and yes, he is being carried in that final. I do admit in 2009, he is not the actual main guy (Malkin, Staal and Talbot saved that series).

But, that is only one of his bad final (and 2008 too where they lost) but people point that out as a point that Crosby is weaker than McDavid.... Ever (which is not the case).

One more thing that gross me out is people putting McD as "second best player ever OF ALL TIME" even though he won jackshit for his team. I get the excitement to think how his career might end but calm down first. That's what sit down and relax meant. He is not that good yet.

Oh, and Crosby was not even top 5 in my personal list. So, I'm not defending him because I like him. I'm defending him because he has done greater things and won in his career when he is younger, as same as, and older than McDavid now.

You guys compare them and said depth like saying Crosby playing with 30 HOF whilst McDavid playing with 30 ECHL level player all their career. Gross.

One of the main reasons they went to 7 games was because of McDavid, all while the other top talent on that team were basically no shows. How that’s on McDavid, I’ll never understand….

Wow what a strawman. But let’s be real here, Malkin has proven himself in the playoffs more than Drai while Murray and Fleury are significantly better than Skinner. The 2016 team was one of the best offensive teams in the league that year and won a lot by committee. The 2017 still had the scoring depth, although their defense was hurting without Letang.

The fact that the Oilers were in game 7 of the SCF with that goaltending and overall blue line is incredible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The only thing McDavid is really missing at this point to really fortify his place as a top-5 player is that one "career defining" achievement. Every one of these top players has some sort of moment that etches them in history. McDavid had the chance to do that if he would have come back from down 0-3, and frankly I think doing that would have been the best "career defining" achievement in NHL history. But he didn't end up pulling it off and that's really the only thing that his career doesn't have yet.

 

[Mohar Ikram]

One of the main reasons they went to 7 games was because of McDavid, all while the other top talent on that team were basically no shows. How that’s on McDavid, I’ll never understand….

Wow what a strawman. But let’s be real here, Malkin has proven himself in the playoffs more than Drai while Murray and Fleury are significantly better than Skinner. The 2016 team was one of the best offensive teams in the league that year and won a lot by committee. The 2017 still had the scoring depth, although their defense was hurting without Letang.

The fact that the Oilers were in game 7 of the SCF with that goaltending and overall blue line is incredible.

Did I ever said the Oilers is not incredible? I don't think so. To "almost" do a comeback is crazy. But "almost" is not "complete"

But you forget one important thing. They lost. No matter how incredible your team might did, it is absolutely no case for putting the leader of the team - which is McDavid in this case - as 2nd best player ever.

GOAT arguement doesn't tolerate losers. Must be fair here.

And, I never say McDavid will never win. Sit down and relax - we wait until McDavid starts winning trophies. Then, we open this discussion again. End of.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Imagine if McDavid played in an era where skill was appreciated and not nuked by defensive coaching, huge goalies with even HUGER equipment and limited space on the ice.

The NHL has devolved severely the 20 years into a dump and grind soft wrister deflection sport. Snipes, Slapshots, Kicksaves have all but disappeared from the sport. Odd man rushes and breakaways rarely occur and when they do, the 6ft 6 goalie with ridiculous equipment is there to stand his ground, letting the puck him rather than making a save.

Note to McDavid, teleport back to 1992 where you'll be appreciated.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

The only thing McDavid is really missing at this point to really fortify his place as a top-5 player is that one "career defining" achievement. Every one of these top players has some sort of moment that etches them in history. McDavid had the chance to do that if he would have come back from down 0-3, and frankly I think doing that would have been the best "career defining" achievement in NHL history. But he didn't end up pulling it off and that's really the only thing that his career doesn't have yet.

I would put him top 5 already but still largely agree with you here

McDavid is missing his “Golden Goal” moment, though it is sure to come

 

[Mohar Ikram]

Imagine if McDavid played in an era where skill was appreciated and not nuked by defensive coaching, huge goalies with even HUGER equipment and limited space on the ice.

The NHL has devolved severely the 20 years into a dump and grind soft wrister deflection sport. Snipes, Slapshots, Kicksaves have all but disappeared from the sport. Odd man rushes and breakaways rarely occur and when they do, the 6ft 6 goalie with ridiculous equipment is there to stand his ground, letting the puck him rather than making a save.

Note to McDavid, teleport back to 1992 where you'll be appreciated.

Offense and defense is equally important. If you're think you're being defended well, surpass it. You're the suppose "GOAT" aren't you?

And one thing, You ask McDavid teleport back to 1992? You want him to deal with DPE 3 years after? With that amount of enforcers and rats still hacks you more than ever you think? Hell no.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Offense and defense is equally important. If you're think you're being defended well, surpass it. You're the suppose "GOAT" aren't you?

And one thing, You ask McDavid teleport back to 1992? You want him to deal with DPE 3 years after? With that amount of enforcers and rats still hacks you more than ever you think? Hell no.

Anyone can coach defense in hockey. The first NHL coach that coaches OFFENSE will actually be the first guy to earn his paycheck.

The sport is run by morons and a large part of the fans don't understand what good hockey looks like.

It's become soccer on skates.....SOCKEY

 

[gretzkyoilers]

The sport would have been better off had Connor McDavid been able to pull off the cup win last night. With 1 goal, 1 assist in a 3-2 win his stature would have grown by leaps and bounds.

I agree. Having super or megastars win, especially these playoffs (lots of great storylines, records, etc.) would have really elevated the sport.

That being said what would have happened to the Panthers franchise had they lost? They are 4th from the bottom of the in terms of value hockey franchises; the Oilers are 7th overall, with the Leafs at number 1.

 

[Overrated]

Imagine if McDavid played in an era where skill was appreciated and not nuked by defensive coaching, huge goalies with even HUGER equipment and limited space on the ice.

The NHL has devolved severely the 20 years into a dump and grind soft wrister deflection sport. Snipes, Slapshots, Kicksaves have all but disappeared from the sport. Odd man rushes and breakaways rarely occur and when they do, the 6ft 6 goalie with ridiculous equipment is there to stand his ground, letting the puck him rather than making a save.

Note to McDavid, teleport back to 1992 where you'll be appreciated.

A wide rink would help him loads. Unfortunately even international hockey is starting to be played on the narrow rink.

 

[lextune]

No he won't. He probably will be top five though. Which is amazing enough. No need to be ridiculous about it.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Also on topic he'll definitely be top 10 unless he like is forcedto retire shockingly early or something, somewhere between 4-7 depending on who you ask (jagr, Crosby McDavid, Howe are solidly in those slots you pick where)

But #2 no, I wouldn't even say 3, Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr is basically unbeatable.

He hasn't passed Howe either. The big 4 are playoff goats.

 

[Lara Emily]

He hasn't passed Howe either. The big 4 are playoff goats.

Yeah I had a brain fart and forgot Howe

 

[Stephen]

I agree. Having super or megastars win, especially these playoffs (lots of great storylines, records, etc.) would have really elevated the sport.

That being said what would have happened to the Panthers franchise had they lost? They are 4th from the bottom of the in terms of value hockey franchises; the Oilers are 7th overall, with the Leafs at number 1.

Superstars winning championships is kind of benchmark of sports storytelling. Think it makes it easier to sell a sport, understand a sport, track the pedigree of stars and spark those debates. So I think the NHL lost more last night than it understands. Had McDavid won you could market him as the present day Gretzky. We are witnessing someone who could be the GOAT. It adds hype to guys like Bedard who could be the next McDavid. With Edmonton losing it’s not really the same.

 

[lextune]

Crosby had 1 goal between those two playoff series you are trying far too hard.

Like 7 of Crosby's 15 goals in his first Cup run were the first goal of the game. IIRC. I do remember it was the record.

He dominated through the first three rounds. Setting the tone in game after game. And this is coming from a Bruins fan that hated his guts. Lol.

 

[geebster]

For pure talent and build etc... maybe the best forward ever? I might take Mario but thats personal preference. It's really unfair to compare eras like that though. If you teleport McDavid back to the 80s he's the greatest player ever probably, but you have to compare guys to their own eras. In McDavids era he's produced like Gretz or Mario did as compared to his peers but he hasn't won anything team wise unlike those 2. Also if we are including defense he's not greater than Orr yet, and if we are including goalies Roy still needs consideration as do Hasek or Brodeur.

Greatness is more than stats it includes resume. Unfortunately things outside a players control contribute to resume and team success. So far he's the least successful of his comparables while having stats that should put him there. If he keeps this up a few more years and can win a cup then I'd put him top 3 among forwards with Gretz and Mario but right now I wouldn't for "greatness".

 

[Mohar Ikram]

Anyone can coach defense in hockey. The first NHL coach that coaches OFFENSE will actually be the first guy to earn his paycheck.

The sport is run by morons and a large part of the fans don't understand what good hockey looks like.

It's become soccer on skates.....SOCKEY

"anyone can coach defense"

HAHAHAHAHA. I cannot stop laughing. You must hate the Devils so much right?

Grow up kid. Not everything is adrenaline rush.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Like 7 of Crosby's 15 goals in his first Cup run were the first goal of the game. IIRC. I do remember it was the record.

He dominated through the first three rounds. Setting the tone in game after game. And this is coming from a Bruins fan that hated his guts. Lol.

McDavid had more goals in the finals in 7 games than Crosby has in 20+. Add the fact that he’s been basically stellar through out the first 3 rounds as well multiple times.

 

[pi314]

The sport would have been better off had Connor McDavid been able to pull off the cup win last night. With 1 goal, 1 assist in a 3-2 win his stature would have grown by leaps and bounds.

But he didn't.

Hopefully he will in time.

This is one of the many reasons points are misleading.

He had 2 monster games in the finals but wasn't as dominant as raw numbers would make it seem.