Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[CanadienShark]

Outscored is not the same as outplayed, lots of other factors in scoring a goal. The Penguins pretty easily lose to Washington in R2 that year if you swapped Crosby and Couture, and that was easily Crosby's worst series.

He absolutely demolished Crosby and was just as integral if not more to the Sharks run. Crosby was a passenger on that team compared to Couture's importance.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Feel free to educate yourself. Couture outscored Crosby in the finals and the entire playoffs. Couture was a better two way player.

Couture scored 30 points in 24 games.
Crosby scored 19 points in 24 games.

It wasn't even close. Couture put up more assists than Crosby did points.

Feel free to educate yourself. Couture outscored Crosby in the finals and the entire playoffs. Couture was a better two way player.

Couture scored 30 points in 24 games.
Crosby scored 19 points in 24 games.

It wasn't even close. Couture put up more assists than Crosby did points.

Educate? What is the goal (see what I did there?) of professional hockey players and their teams in North America? Why yes, it is to win the Stanley Cup! You're off to a great start! Now, how these teams win such these Cups? Correct! By winning four best of seven playoff rounds after qualifying for said single elimination pool. You're doing great! Final round (three parts, hang in there!): Now, where do "points" appear on the Stanley Cup? Is a certain number required to secure this cup? Does anyone actually care about "points" other than the fans of the loser or haters of the winner? Answers: Nowhere; no; and of course not.

If you don't readily understand that poor Logan would trade every single "point" (what are these things again? And secondary assists? WTF? Who dwells in such nonsense? Oh yeah! Losers!) he logged in the 2016 playoff to have his name etched onto the Cup of Champions, just once, then you are beyond help, and of course, education.

Remind me, did Logan win the Conn Smythe? Oh, that's right. He did not. To his credit, I'm sure he couldn't care less. Maybe because Logan had only two game winning goals in 2016 while Sidney had three. Seems to make sense in the context of "valuable", doesn't it?

Mr. Crosby has his name etched on the Cup three times. But he won't lend one to Logan, sorry about that. Sid also has innumerable personal accolades and championships in other venues. But he'll be the first to tell you - all that matters is the Stanley Cup. Logan's team got doubled up by Captain Sid's, 4-2, and last I checked, the Sharks haven't been in real contention since, absent a short-lived period of excitement thanks to the worst referee call in playoff history.

Forget about points, my friend. Leadership, tenacity, attention to detail, and commitment to the team delivers victories and Cups. Not arbitrary stats nor silly numbers.

 

[CanadienShark]

Educate? What is the goal (see what I did there?) of professional hockey players and their teams in North America? Why yes, it is to win the Stanley Cup! You're off to a great start! Now, how these teams win such these Cups? Correct! By winning four best of seven playoff rounds after qualifying for said single elimination pool. You're doing great! Final round (three parts, hang in there!): Now, where do "points" appear on the Stanley Cup? Is a certain number required to secure this cup? Does anyone actually care about "points" other than the fans of the loser or haters of the winner? Answers: Nowhere; no; and of course not.

If you don't readily understand that poor Logan would trade every single "point" (what are these things again? And secondary assists? WTF? Who dwells in such nonsense? Oh yeah! Losers!) he logged in the 2016 playoff to have his name etched onto the Cup of Champions, just once, then you are beyond help, and of course, education.

Remind me, did Logan win the Conn Smythe? Oh, that's right. He did not. To his credit, I'm sure he couldn't care less. Maybe because Logan had only two game winning goals in 2016 while Sidney had three. Seems to make sense in the context of "valuable", doesn't it?

Mr. Crosby has his name etched on the Cup three times. But he won't lend one to Logan, sorry about that. Sid also has innumerable personal accolades and championships in other venues. But he'll be the first to tell you - all that matters is the Stanley Cup. Logan's team got doubled up by Captain Sid's, 4-2, and last I checked, the Sharks haven't been in real contention since, absent a short-lived period of excitement thanks to the worst referee call in playoff history.

Forget about points, my friend. Leadership, tenacity, attention to detail, and commitment to the team delivers victories and Cups. Not arbitrary stats nor silly numbers.

You should probably go back to the original point that prompted this discussion BEFORE you write a children's novel.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Not a chance I'd take the players mentioned aside from MAYBE Howe (never saw him play--just based on career) over McDavid in a draft. No chance. Sid and Ovie are on the cusp, but McDavid is already clearly ahead of them in terms of talent. Crosby may end up with the better career if he's won everything and McDavid hasn't. Ovechkin has the edge in goals, oviously. I once said it wasn't clear between McDavid and Sid before this, but McDavid showed I was silly right away.

Also, it's so tough to compare defensemen so I don't know who peaked higher. Gretzky scored more than 200 points not only once. No other player has done it.

I based my opinion on not just talent alone, but intangibles, and big moments all these great players have made during their careers. Gretzky’s goal against Calgary on a tight angle, Orr’s legendary cup winning goal, Lemieux’s break away goal with Bourque bearing down on him. Bossy’s OT goal against Vancouver in OT, the Lafleur goal against Boston. Just off the top of my head. So many more. McDavid lacks this in his resume. He still has time. As for Crosby on my list, he turned himself into a great 2 way player perhaps from Toews influence on him, to make him a worthy choice when he won his second cup. it’s not just points stats I look at, I consider all influences that made a player great.

 

[Hanji]

Way back in 1968 there was a writeup on hockey skating/scoring in Popular Mechanics.

Gordie Howe was up there with Bobby Hull is speed and shooting. Bobby Hull was the McDavid and Weber of his time. Fastest and the hardest slap shot in the NHL. Gordie Howe was right behind him.

After a little bit of digging, I found the results. This brings back huge memories for me because I use to buy those magazines at that time.

Anywho...notice Howes wrist shot. Only Hulls slap shot was faster.



View attachment 886748

In no parallel universe are these figures remotely believable.

 

[CanadienShark]

So now you arguing that Couture was essential to the Sharks losing to the Penguins 4-2? Step back from the amphetamines, son, I'm starting to worry about your well-being.


I honor my audience while I enjoy the royalties.

Buddy, you don't get it. It's simple. Crosby didn't "lead his team" at all. He was just one of the guys who played on a stacked team. You're being a bit of a petty child with those comments.

 

[HockeyWooot]

There’s a decent chance he finishes top 2-4 when all said and done, but why do some have him at #4 right now?

 

[edog37]

I have bad news for you: Crosby has no idea you exist.

Tell that to Crosby. The dude was handily outplayed by Logan Couture.

He led his team to a championship. Plays big in big games unlike McBaby.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

You said 60 games. That was 56 and he had the largest lead of cap era at that point in a season. Do you think over the remaining 26 games that would've made it a full season, the gap would lessen drastically rather than increase or stay the same? Stretched to an 82 game season, that gap widens to 53 points

Still, from 1988 on the only time Lemieux didn't win the art ross was if he was injured. He would absolutely never lose an art ross to a Kucherov or Draisaitl. I think McDavid likely has similar hardware to Lemieux when it's over but Lemieux's peak/prime is clearly a level above.

 

[BraveCanadian]

hfboards clearly demonstrating its "what have you done for me lately?" bent.

McDavid went from a ghost early in the series, to the best player of all time in the middle, to a choker at the end. Who knew a player's legacy could change so much in only 7 games.

Never change hfboards.

 

[CanadienShark]

He led his team to a championship. Plays big in big games unlike McBaby.

When was that? He was solidly good at best. He was just one of many good guys on a stacked team.

 

[Daximus]

He's definitely making a case for top 5 already at 27 years old. And with likely at least 4 more years of prime play in him if not more he can add to the case. He's probably gotta win at least 1 Cup to cement it though. Its never been harder to win a cup.

I don't know if he will ever make it a clear cut best #2 though. But he can put himself into the conversation to make the top 4 a top 5.

 

[robertmac43]

I based my opinion on not just talent alone, but intangibles, and big moments all these great players have made during their careers. Gretzky’s goal against Calgary on a tight angle, Orr’s legendary cup winning goal, Lemieux’s break away goal with Bourque bearing down on him. Bossy’s OT goal against Vancouver in OT, the Lafleur goal against Boston. Just off the top of my head. So many more. McDavid lacks this in his resume. He still has time. As for Crosby on my list, he turned himself into a great 2 way player perhaps from Toews influence on him, to make him a worthy choice when he won his second cup. it’s not just points stats I look at, I consider all influences that made a player great.

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Moments make players.

McDavid did have that amazing goal against the stars where he made Heiskanen regret his existence. If they win this year, I think that is remembered as one of his big moments.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

He absolutely demolished Crosby and was just as integral if not more to the Sharks run. Crosby was a passenger on that team compared to Couture's importance.

This is such an embarrassing take.

 

[CanadienShark]

This is such an embarrassing take.

Have you seen the 2016 playoffs for either team or looked at any stats? Couture was much better throughout the entire playoffs. Crosby won an undeserved Smythe. Personally, I think it should have been Kessel.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Have you seen the 2016 playoffs for either team or looked at any stats? Couture was much better throughout the entire playoffs. Crosby won an undeserved Smythe. Personally, I think it should have been Kessel.

I honestly think Letang deserved it. He was what made that 2016 team dominant and his absence was obvious in the 2017 run. Kessel or Crosby weren't bad choices either Kessel got to feast on his matchups since he was on the third line, and Crosby despite not having great numbers dominated possession.

 

[CanadienShark]

I honestly think Letang deserved it. He was what made that 2016 team dominant and his absence was obvious in the 2017 run. Kessel or Crosby weren't bad choices either Kessel got to feast on his matchups since he was on the third line, and Crosby despite not having great numbers dominated possession.

Letang is another solid choice. Crosby wouldn't be top 3 on my choices, personally. Pens were downright stacked that season. No surprise they repeated the next year too.

 

[Lara Emily]

Letang is another solid choice. Crosby wouldn't be top 3 on my choices, personally. Pens were downright stacked that season. No surprise they repeated the next year too.

I'm flattered you think a Penguins team that was so messed up they had to fire their coach mid season just to secure a playoff spot constitutes stacked

 

[blundluntman]

Penguins fans seem more relieved about Edmonton losing yesterday than Panthers fans the way this thread looks right now

 

[Mohar Ikram]

Buddy, you don't get it. It's simple. Crosby didn't "lead his team" at all. He was just one of the guys who played on a stacked team. You're being a bit of a petty child with those comments.

Didn't lead his team?

Okay, lets see Crosby in his final two cups final game 2016 and 2017:

2016:
1st game - 1 assist (Pitt win)
2nd game - 1 assist (OT goal) (Pitt win)
3rd game - no points (Sharks win)
4th game - no points (Pitt win)
5th game - no points (Sharks win)
6th game - 2 assists (1 for CUP winning goal, 1 for EN)

2017:
1st game - 2 assists (Pitt win)
2nd game - no points (Pitt win)
3rd game - 1 assists (Preds win)
4th game - 1 goal (Preds win)
5th game - 3 assists (game to kill Pekka Rinne 6-0) (Pitt win)
6th game - no points (Pitt win)

Lets see what McD did in his one and only final in 2024:

2024:
1st game: no points (Fla win)
2nd game: 1 assist (Fla win)
3rd game: 1 assist (Fla win)
4th game: 1 goal, 2 assists (only came after Oilers already 3-1 up) (Edm win)
5th game: 2 goal, 1 assists (His only instrumental game) (Edm win)
6th game: no points (in tying game) (Edm win)
7th game: no points (in cup-clinching game) (Fla win)

Lets be honest here. Syd final two cup performance in big games are more instrumental than McD is. Even if you're sucker for points = performance, clearly McD do not have "IT" yet in big games.

Not to say McDavid will never surpass Crosby. For now, McD IS STILL FARAWAY from Crosby in terms of big game performance and GAMES that matter. Sit down and relax. Crosby is still on the throne (And I say that as a Pitt hater).

 

[Ignatius]

Connor McCaitlin Clark will go down as the greatest player to never win a Cup.

 

[CanadienShark]

I'm flattered you think a Penguins team that was so messed up they had to fire their coach mid season just to secure a playoff spot constitutes stacked

The Pens were absolutely stacked. Great team that team that year. A bad coach ≠ bad team.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Connor McNoShow can always say he’s the best game 4 and 5 player ever

 

[CanadienShark]

Didn't lead his team?

Okay, lets see Crosby in his final two cups final game 2016 and 2017:

2016:
1st game - 1 assist (Pitt win)
2nd game - 1 assist (OT goal) (Pitt win)
3rd game - no points (Sharks win)
4th game - no points (Pitt win)
5th game - no points (Sharks win)
6th game - 2 assists (1 for CUP winning goal, 1 for EN)

2017:
1st game - 2 assists (Pitt win)
2nd game - no points (Pitt win)
3rd game - 1 assists (Preds win)
4th game - 1 goal (Preds win)
5th game - 3 assists (game to kill Pekka Rinne 6-0) (Pitt win)
6th game - no points (Pitt win)

Lets see what McD did in his one and only final in 2024:

2024:
1st game: no points (Fla win)
2nd game: 1 assist (Fla win)
3rd game: 1 assist (Fla win)
4th game: 1 goal, 2 assists (only came after Oilers already 3-1 up) (Edm win)
5th game: 2 goal, 1 assists (His only instrumental game) (Edm win)
6th game: no points (in tying game) (Edm win)
7th game: no points (in cup-clinching game) (Fla win)

Lets be honest here. Syd final two cup performance in big games are more instrumental than McD is. Even if you're sucker for points = performance, clearly McD do not have "IT" yet in big games.

Not to say McDavid will never surpass Crosby. For now, McD IS STILL FARAWAY from Crosby in terms of big game performance and GAMES that matter. Sit down and relax. Crosby is still on the throne (And I say that as a Pitt hater).

This is the first time I've ever heard of 4 points in an entire series being described as "leading a team to the cup." Wow.

He was not instrumental. He was a good player on a very good team. The stats you quoted hurt Crosby's case more than help him.

 

[Fatass]

Connor McCaitlin Clark will go down as the greatest player to never win a Cup.

Yup. Unless he leads a team to a Cup he’s in a group with Dionne and Howerchuck. Great individual point produces, but not true champions. Game 7 and McDavid has no points.