Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[Mohar Ikram]

This is the first time I've ever heard of 4 points in an entire series being described as "leading a team to the cup." Wow.

He was not instrumental. He was a good player on a very good team.

The bold game was big game. The weightage is heavier. Although every game matters, that bold game is "where your legacy matter" (Although I should put bold on game 6 2017 too where Syd is not performing)

I give you one example. Craig Button says that both Verhaeghe and Reinhart are not performing well in SCF (which is true considering one of them is playoff killer and one of them is 50+ goalscorer)..... until game 7 where both of them score the goals to win the cup for the first time for the Panthers. Their legacy already set.

McD does not have it.... yet. Sit down and relax.

 

[Lara Emily]

The Pens were absolutely stacked. Great team that team that year. A bad coach ≠ bad team.

The Pens were a well balanced team yes, with some then young guys playing beyond expectations

But Stacked no

They were a massively defense by committee team for example

What they were was a well coached cohesive unit with incredible leadership from their captain... what was his name again?

 

[Ignatius]

Penguins fans seem more relieved about Edmonton losing yesterday than Panthers fans the way this thread looks right now

Truthfully for some reason we have been the target of an insane amount of smack talk from the Edmonton fanbase. In some twisted way apparently tearing down Crosby props up McDavid. I could find instances where I've been talking up McDavid and saying that I expected the Oilers to win the Cup but that's not good enough. You literally have to practically worship McDavid and be a total sycophant or else you're accused of being a hater.

All I really said, which wasn't even a criticism, was that McDavid did not have a lot of playoff experience and has not had many big game experiences, Game 7 experience specifically, compared to Crosby. According to the cult of McDavid I'm a hater. I'm happy to lean into that as much as I can and play the villain.

 

[CanadienShark]

The bold game was big game. The weightage is heavier. Although every game matters, that bold game is "where your legacy matter" (Although I should put bold on game 6 2017 too where Syd is not performing)

I give you one example. Craig Button says that both Verhaeghe and Reinhart are not performing well in SCF (which is true considering one of them is playoff killer and one of them is 50+ goalscorer)..... until game 7 where both of them score the goals to win the cup for the first time for the Panthers. Their legacy already set.

McD does not have it.... yet. Sit down and relax.

The game you're referring to where 25% of his points in the whole series was an empty net assist?

You're hurting his case, not helping.

The Pens were a well balanced team yes, with some then young guys playing beyond expectations

But Stacked no

They were a massively defense by committee team for example

What they were was a well coached cohesive unit with incredible leadership from their captain... what was his name again?

Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Kessel, and amazing depth alongside those guys and you think that's not stacked? Their defence left something to be desired on paper, similar to Edmonton this year, but yes, that was a stacked team.

 

[Mohar Ikram]

The game you're referring to where 25% of his points in the whole series was an empty net assist?

You're hurting his case, not helping.

Does it matter if it an EN to stop the Sharks attack and seal the cup? Yes it is.
As shown as Ekblad and Barkov EN miss in game 3, it is not easy to score one when you are desperate in defending the fort.

Don't just think every EN is same. That's a fool thought.

Sit back and relax.

 

[CanadienShark]

Does it matter if it an EN to stop the Sharks attack and seal the cup? Yes it is.
As shown as Ekblad and Barkov EN miss in game 3, it is not easy to score one when you are desperate in defending the fort.

Don't just think every EN is same. That's a fool thought.

Sit back and relax.

I'm currently sitting back, relaxed, and chuckling at this conversation.

 

[WalterLundy]

Historical league average G/GP in the NHL playoffs: 2.85

Most adjusted playoff points:
‘24 McDavid: 42 in 25 GP
‘91 Lemieux: 38 in 24 GP
‘09 Malkin: 37 in 24 GP
‘85 Gretzky: 36 in 18 GP
‘20 Kucherov: 35 in 25 GP

Margins over closest non teammate:
‘24 McDavid: 42, Barkov: 22 (20 P, 91%)
‘85 Gretzky: 47, Savard: 29 (18 P, 62%)
‘88 Gretzky: 43, Linesman: 25 (18 P, 72%)
‘84 Gretzky: 35, Gillies: 19 (16 P, 84%)
‘91 Lemieux: 44, Bellows: 29 (15 P, 52%)
‘09 Malkin: 36, Zetterberg: 24 (12 P, 50%)

By the numbers it is overall the best playoff run of all time. 11 points in a final is also the best ever when adjusted. Heck of a run and made it way farther than I thought they would. Easily the best player I’ve seen since Mario and will end up 2-4 all time. Congrats to McDavid for the most well earned smythe and great comeback from injury this year. 158 in 85 games since that point. Panthers were deserving (both teams were) so congrats to them. Fun season overall.

 

[Mohar Ikram]

I'm currently sitting back, relaxed, and chuckling at this conversation.

Because you realize you never understand this sentence and continue to say McD > Syd even though the latter much more accomplished team-wise than him at the former age:

"McDavid does not have it.... yet"

 

[CanadienShark]

Because you realize you never understand this sentence and continue to say McD > Syd even though the latter much more accomplished team-wise than him at the former age:

"McDavid does not have it.... yet"

McDavid is clearly the superior player. Crosby is/was a borderline (I'd argue yes) generational talent. That doesn't mean he performed at that level in the 2016 playoffs. Crosby has benefited from a far better supporting cast.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Syd

Just as a heads up, Syd is the female spelling, while Sid is his actual (male) spelling.

Syd used to be a bannable offense here 10 years ago in a similar way that calling the Sedins "sisters" was.

 

[Lara Emily]

The game you're referring to where 25% of his points in the whole series was an empty net assist?

You're hurting his case, not helping.


Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Kessel, and amazing depth alongside those guys and you think that's not stacked? Their defence left something to be desired on paper, similar to Edmonton this year, but yes, that was a stacked team.

Were your Sharks a stacked team?

The 90s Pens were stacked

The Crosby cups were balanced

 

[tfwnogf]

He will get another chance at the cup I'm sure. Crosby lost the first time he had a chance too. The hawks were humbled by detroit before winning in 2010. The bruins got reverse swept before they won in 2011. Tampa swept before their back to back wins. Capitals had plenty of round 1 and 2 losses before getting theirs. Panthers lost last year before winning this year. Etc etc.
All teams need to face adversity before they can grow. McDavid will only be hungrier for a cup from this loss.

 

[Mohar Ikram]

McDavid is clearly the superior player. Crosby is/was a borderline (I'd argue yes) generational talent. That doesn't mean he performed at that level in the 2016 playoffs. Crosby has benefited from a far better supporting cast.

Crosby has never had a below PPG season for almost 20 years (including the lost seasons, IYKWIM). He is MORE than just borderline generational talent.

McDavid is superior talent than Crosby. But superior player? hold your horses rookie.

Sit back and relax. If you carefully read my comment, you will understand what I mean by those phrases.

 

[Lara Emily]

Crosby is/was a borderline (I'd argue yes) generational talent.

Borderline lmaoooo

 

[CanadienShark]

Were your Sharks a stacked team?

The 90s Pens were stacked

The Crosby cups were balanced

Nope. We had Burns as an elite d-man. Luckily for us we had guys like Couture who put up a legit Smythe worthy performance. Vlasic hadn't yet fallen off a cliff. Hertl was great, but he's no Malkin or Crosby. And then old men Thornton and Marleau. Pavelski too. Pens had legit superstars and the closest player to that level the Sharks had was Burns, who is matched by Letang. Sharks had a great playoff, but fell short when up against a stacked roster with amazing depth and speed that they couldn't match.

Long story short, we were outmatched by a stacked team with depth.

 

[CanadienShark]

Borderline lmaoooo

Did you miss the parentheses?

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

Wrong. He can’t win a cup.

 

[WalterLundy]

McDavid is clearly the superior player. Crosby is/was a borderline (I'd argue yes) generational talent. That doesn't mean he performed at that level in the 2016 playoffs. Crosby has benefited from a far better supporting cast.

You are better off not even seriously engaging honestly. They won’t let it go. McDavid and Crosby is a non discussion. He’s clearly better than Crosby ever was. I was also (and still am) a penguins season ticket holder and the 16 and 17 penguins were indeed great teams. Your sharks team was good too but to say we weren’t stacked is a joke. Don’t let anyone tell you they weren’t. Without Malkin carrying 3/4 of the 09 rounds and the talbot heroics there is no cup there either. He wasn’t the reason we won any of the three and he never had a regular or post season like McDavid has had.

 

[Lara Emily]

Nope. We had Burns as an elite d-man. Luckily for us we had guys like Couture who put up a legit Smythe worthy performance. Vlasic hadn't yet fallen off a cliff. Hertl was great, but he's no Malkin or Crosby. And then old men Thornton and Marleau. Pavelski too. Pens had legit superstars and the closest player to that level the Sharks had was Burns, who is matched by Letang. Sharks had a great playoff, but fell short when up against a stacked roster with amazing depth and speed that they couldn't match.

Long story short, we were outmatched by a stacked team with depth.

So you had a team that dominated the offensive leader board but that doesn't count as stacked

But also the Pens were stacked but also Crosby didn’t really matter and he's only debatably generational

Your arguments are beautifully funny.

You are correct that the Sharke got beat via depth but it was a balanced depth not a stacked depth

1991 Pens was stacked: Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Stevens, Coffey, Mullen, Recchi, Trottier, Murphy, Barrasso

That's stacked

Did you miss the parentheses?

You understand that I'm laughing at you suggesting there's an actual debate to be had if Sidney Crosby is generational.

 

[CashMash]

Letang is another solid choice. Crosby wouldn't be top 3 on my choices, personally. Pens were downright stacked that season. No surprise they repeated the next year too.

They didn't have Letang for the run the next year, though?

Still a bit upset that Malkin didn't get it that time. I understand the impulse of giving it to Crosby in an arguable scenario because he's the captain and he might not make it back... but second time? Malkin got screwed imo.

 

[CanadienShark]

You are better off not even seriously engaging honestly. They won’t let it go. McDavid and Crosby is a non discussion. He’s clearly better than Crosby ever was. I was also (and still am) a penguins season ticket holder and the 16 and 17 penguins were indeed great teams. Your sharks team was good too but to say we weren’t stacked is a joke. Don’t let anyone tell you they weren’t. Without Malkin carrying 3/4 of the 09 rounds and the talbot heroics there is no cup there either. He wasn’t the reason we won any of the three and he never had a regular or post season like McDavid has had.

Agreed. I'm done with this. I'm trying to give credit where credit is due. The Pens were the worthy winners because they way outplayed the Sharks. It's derailing the thread now though. Some people just get stuck in a hive mind. I get it, sometimes I do too. I appreciate the reasonable response. I'll end with saying that Crosby is and clearly was always going to be a top 10 player in history. He's an all time great and it's impressive to see him still performing well despite his age.

They didn't have Letang for the run the next year, though?

Still a bit upset that Malkin didn't get it that time. I understand the impulse of giving it to Crosby in an arguable scenario because he's the captain and he might not make it back... but second time? Malkin got screwed imo.

Correct. They missed Letang in 2017. The Pens were a great team both years.

 

[CashMash]

You are better off not even seriously engaging honestly. They won’t let it go. McDavid and Crosby is a non discussion. He’s clearly better than Crosby ever was. I was also (and still am) a penguins season ticket holder and the 16 and 17 penguins were indeed great teams. Your sharks team was good too but to say we weren’t stacked is a joke. Don’t let anyone tell you they weren’t. Without Malkin carrying 3/4 of the 09 rounds and the talbot heroics there is no cup there either. He wasn’t the reason we won any of the three and he never had a regular or post season like McDavid has had.

For my money, the 16 team was no doubt stacked--wasn't that the year of the HBK-line?--but I was amazed at them losing a key player in Letang and it not sllowing them down one bit.

I think Crosby is a great player. He is below McDavid in terms of talent, but not by much. Definitely still generational. He, Ovechkin, and Malkin were the big 3 for a long time. Malkin is my favorite player to watch ever when he was on.

 

[Human]

You can tell Crosby is generational because his name pops up more than McDavid’s in a thread with McDavid’s name on the title…

 

[Lara Emily]

The reason stacked needs a stronger definition is that by the weak criteria being suggested here... these Oilers would qualify as stacked lol

Phenomenal Depth is not the same as stacked

 

[blundluntman]

Truthfully for some reason we have been the target of an insane amount of smack talk from the Edmonton fanbase. In some twisted way apparently tearing down Crosby props up McDavid. I could find instances where I've been talking up McDavid and saying that I expected the Oilers to win the Cup but that's not good enough. You literally have to practically worship McDavid and be a total sycophant or else you're accused of being a hater.

All I really said, which wasn't even a criticism, was that McDavid did not have a lot of playoff experience and has not had many big game experiences, Game 7 experience specifically, compared to Crosby. According to the cult of McDavid I'm a hater. I'm happy to lean into that as much as I can and play the villain.

Fair enough, I'm not referring to posts of that nature. Criticism is no issue if it's objective, but a lot of posts involved in the McDavid vs Crosby discourse are a lot more biased/hyperbolic and only come out of the woodwork following an Oilers loss while the iron's still hot