Connor McDavid will go down as the 2nd best player of all-time

[thegazelle]

Perhaps I will be off base here with this observation, but maybe not.

I am curious how many people who posit that Connor McDavid will be the best or second best ever are under the age of 40 or maybe 30.

To a degree, I wonder whether successive generations are more focused on the player of choice in the here and now, and past great players' accomplishments may not ring as prominently as they were not born/alive/watching hockey during that period.

Certainly for me, being in my 50s, I can relate. When Gretzky and Lemieux (more or less my contemporaries) were lighting it up, I didn't give much thought to Gordie Howe, as I never really watched him play. In my mind, his play and contributions diminished somewhat as I wasn't actively watching him.

Watching Gretzky set all those records, some of them just unimaginable these days (215 points in a season, 50 goals in 39 games) - I suppose if I wasn't there to have seen it, it may be another statistic removed from personal experience.

Don't get me wrong - McDavid is a superb player and the greatest of this generation. I remember watching him play in 2017 when I took my son to Edmonton to watch the Oilers play the Penguins and how fast McDavid skated, turned and just moved like a graceful cheetah - it was awe-inspiring. But I am not prepared to put him in the same category as Gretzky or even Lemieux. It is not just the cups but the consistent stats that just blew his fellow players out of the water. I think this playoff run was absolutely incredible and certainly with more stats like this over the years, it will cement a good argument for him.

I remember in one of Gretzky's years, he had more assists than the next guy in the scoring race had points (and I think the other guy was at 150 points or something like that). Stuff like that was just legendary, and people can say yeah, different era, but all the same, it was a special time. Perhaps we are seeing that, but time will tell. I think McDavid will no doubt in my mind be top five, that is for certain.

 

[wetcoast]

Not without a Stanley Cup...he's just the new version of Marcel Dionne.

I think Dionne gets way under rated in all time list but it's clear that McDavid is already a top 10 player of all time and for most fair minded people tracking top 5 or 6 at worst when his career is over barring something catastrophic.

 

[crowfish]

Not without a Stanley Cup...he's just the new version of Marcel Dionne.

I'll do this one more time, just because the comparison is so insultingly stupid that I never want to see it on the internet again.

Marcel Dionne (18 seasons played)
Art Ross 1
MVP 0
Pts/game regular 6th
Pts/game playoffs 68th

Verdict: Scored a lot of points in the regular season during the highest scoring era ever, but obviously was not a dominant player as evidenced by winning 0 MVPs. His dropoff in production from regular season to postseason is a massive stain on his resume, much more so than the fact that he didn't win a Cup.

Connor McDavid (9 seasons played and counting)
Art Ross 5
MVP 3
Pts/game regular 3rd
Pts/game playoffs 3rd

Verdict: With the combination of 5 Rosses and 3 MVPs, only 3 players in history have that matched or beat: Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe (which just so happens to be the 3 greatest forwards ever.) 3rd all-time in pts/game behind only the 2 best forwards ever. 3rd Playoff pts/game again only behind the 2 greatest forwards ever. Quite easily the 3rd best forward in NHL history based on stats and individual awards.

Anyways, hopefully you will never feel the need to compare those 2 names ever again.

 

[MuckOG]

Greatest player to not have won a Cup.....yet.

(I do believe someday his name will be engraved on it, but until then.....)

 

[Video Nasty]

I'll do this one more time, just because the comparison is so insultingly stupid that I never want to see it on the internet again.

Marcel Dionne (18 seasons played)
Art Ross 1
MVP 0
Pts/game regular 6th
Pts/game playoffs 68th

Verdict: Scored a lot of points in the regular season during the highest scoring era ever, but obviously was not a dominant player as evidenced by winning 0 MVPs. His dropoff in production from regular season to postseason is a massive stain on his resume, much more so than the fact that he didn't win a Cup.

Connor McDavid (9 seasons played and counting)
Art Ross 5
MVP 3
Pts/game regular 3rd
Pts/game playoffs 3rd

Verdict: With the combination of 5 Rosses and 3 MVPs, only 3 players in history have that matched or beat: Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe (which just so happens to be the 3 greatest forwards ever.) 3rd all-time in pts/game behind only the 2 best forwards ever. 3rd Playoff pts/game again only behind the 2 greatest forwards ever. Quite easily the 3rd best forward in NHL history based on stats and individual awards.

Anyways, hopefully you will never feel the need to compare those 2 names ever again.

Fun addition:

McDavid’s 42 points this postseason nearly matched Dionne’s entire career output (45 points).

I’m a defender of Dionne much more often than not, but the lack of self-awareness when people bring up the tired references to him (and Marino) is pretty sad. How does one not see themself as an absolute simpleton when they parrot the same talking point that everyone else has eight million times?

 

[pi314]

I have a genuine question for you from one pens fan (and Pittsburgher it seems) to another. Do you actually believe that Crosby is better than McDavid and will rank higher than him even at the end of
McDavid’s career? Not going to be overly critical of your answer just genuinely curious.

The way that I personally look at it is that through the same point in their careers (first 9 years or 645 games whichever you choose) McDavid is clearly ahead statistically for the overall comparison, prime stretch, peak season and best playoff performances. This holds true for regular stats and era adjusted as well. He also currently at age 27 has more individual hardware than Crosby does in his entire career.

That is impossible to argue against so I’m assuming that for you it comes down to winning the big one and since Crosby has more championships that’s what does it but I could be wrong as I’m only assuming. To that I’d say that for ones playoff performances to be statistically superior to Crosby’s we are looking at a matter of better teams (16 and 17 penguins) coupled with Malkin’s 09 dominance/Talbot heroism in game 7 for the other. Of course Crosby played well in all three playoff runs as well but McDavid isn’t merely playing well here we have the best performance statistically of all time in the playoffs when adjusted this year. This also wouldn’t be enough to tilt it in Sid’s favor anyone in my opinion but yeah. Anyway not trying to be condescending or start an argument just curious what other pens fans seem to think.

Fellow Pens fan.

I think a lot of people will have Connor ahead and I'm okay with that.

But I think the gap is way, way smaller than most people realize.

For a few reasons.

1. We never saw Sid’s best years offensively.

Thanks Steckel.

2. They shrunk goalie pad size.

We went from 1-2 guys breaking 100 points, some years none… to 15-20 guys breaking 100 points.

Is Huberdeau or Gaudreau better than prime Geno?

No way.

Because points say they are.

Scoring is up league wide and it makes it seem like McDavid has done more.

Take 15% inflation off McDavid's total and he had the same 36 points Geno did in '09.

Without going against Lidstrom, Rafalski, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk.

3. There is more to hockey than points.

Sometimes winning hockey is chipping a pick off the glass, blocking a shot, winning a battle in the corner, breaking up an odd man rush, etc etc.

The last competitive hockey I played, the leading scorer was my center. He finished with 154 points and won league MVP.

He was a floater. Always tried to go 1 on 5.

Sometimes did some highlight Gretzky shit.

The 2nd leading scorer finished with 146 points.

He was a 200-foot beast. Easily the best player I've ever played against. No holes in his game.

Caught me from behind on a breakaway once and lifted my stick. Still have no idea how.

We played in the playoffs. Not surprisingly, they eliminated us. The "2nd place guy" won when the games mattered.

If you asked most casual fans, my center was better because points.

But real hockey isn't always like that.

I would give a 10% edge to Connor offensively and a significant edge to Sid in a lot of other things.

Sid does a lot of things that aren't easily quantifiable but ultimately win games when they matter.

4. More teams pull goalies sooner. There are more meaningless empty net points.

5. We haven’t seen McDavid’s decline.

What happens when he’s not faster than everyone else?

You put prime Sid in this era and to me he’s easily a 150 point guy.

While playing a 200-foot game.

They're both clearly all time greats. Both already top 10.

Stoked we've got 5 cups in my lifetime.

 

[edog37]

What a moronic take.

So basically, Crosby is the perfect player who excels on both ends(he doesn’t), works harder than McDavid, is a better leader than McDavid, and overall is just better….

Then you sum up McDavid as this all flash, no hockey sense, zero leadership having player. It’s hilarious. A typical “hater” take full of all the mental gymnastics.

Crosbys 2016 smythe is possibly one of the weakest in history. The irony is if McDavid put up 19 points in 24 games and was a negative player…and STILL won, you would be the first to criticize him…..but because it’s Crosby all is forgiven. Maybe look at the hypocrisy of your opinions before posting.

McDavid has done things that Crosby could never do. And the only reason why Crosby has more international and playoff success is purely because he played on much better and more well balanced teams. It’s that simple.

Says the guy with the moronic picture of

What a moronic take.

So basically, Crosby is the perfect player who excels on both ends(he doesn’t), works harder than McDavid, is a better leader than McDavid, and overall is just better….

Then you sum up McDavid as this all flash, no hockey sense, zero leadership having player. It’s hilarious. A typical “hater” take full of all the mental gymnastics.

Crosbys 2016 smythe is possibly one of the weakest in history. The irony is if McDavid put up 19 points in 24 games and was a negative player…and STILL won, you would be the first to criticize him…..but because it’s Crosby all is forgiven. Maybe look at the hypocrisy of your opinions before posting.

McDavid has done things that Crosby could never do. And the only reason why Crosby has more international and playoff success is purely because he played on much better and more well balanced teams. It’s that simple.

Says the guy with the moronic picture of Pronger with a Flyers logo in the background. What exactly did he accomplish there except get hurt a lot? Remember at his into press conference that he stupidly proclaimed “there’s a new sheriff in town”. Yeah, that went well. Crosby continues to torch the Flyers like no one else. And it’s glorious.

Yeah, Crosby’s is the best grinder in NHL history. He’s the hardest working superstar in the game & doesn’t take shifts off. He’s proven it after 20 years.

McChoke has done things that Crosby has never done. What…not show up in two elimination games? Get outplayed by Evan Rodriguez in the Final? If so, then you’re 100% right.

It’s clearly a heavily flawed line of thinking if beating the 27 win/68 point/15 seed Minnesota North Stars after missing 54 games in the regular season caused the hockey world at large to do an about face when it came to Mario.

Then you clearly didn’t watch hockey back then. Because that was the narrative.

 

[Video Nasty]

Then you clearly didn’t watch hockey back then. Because that was the narrative.

I didn't say that wasn't the narrative. I'm questioning the absurdity of it.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Says the guy with the moronic picture of

Says the guy with the moronic picture of Pronger with a Flyers logo in the background. What exactly did he accomplish there except get hurt a lot? Remember at his into press conference that he stupidly proclaimed “there’s a new sheriff in town”. Yeah, that went well. Crosby continues to torch the Flyers like no one else. And it’s glorious.

Yeah, Crosby’s is the best grinder in NHL history. He’s the hardest working superstar in the game & doesn’t take shifts off. He’s proven it after 20 years.

McChoke has done things that Crosby has never done. What…not show up in two elimination games? Get outplayed by Evan Rodriguez in the Final? If so, then you’re 100% right.


Then you clearly didn’t watch hockey back then. Because that was the narrative.

The fact that my avatar triggers you so much is exactly why I have it, and I’m not even a flyers fan

Again, apparently games 4 and 5 weren’t elimination game….but 6 and 7 were….more of that rich logic

“outplayed.” Clearly you don’t know the meaning of the word….
Evan Rodriguez: 7-4-3-7
McDavid: 7-3-8-11
But sure, “outplayed” also, Evan had only 1 assist through games 6 and 7, and was a -1….but sure, “outplayed.”

Also, Crosby had 0 points in games 6 and 7 in ‘09, was a -1. He also barely played in game 7….but in your limited mind, THATS showing up for elimination games…

 

[Leafsfan74]

It is tough to compare todays NHL with what Lemieux dealt with in the 1990s. Even Orr in the 70s, he revolutionized the position. Gretzky was so far ahead of everyone else that it was laughable.

He may end up the #1 highlight player though and potentially a top 5. The rings matter though. I bet you he would have been willing to part with millions to win that Game 7. He has definitely altered my opinion of him.

 

[WalterLundy]

The fact that my avatar triggers you so much is exactly why I have it, and I’m not even a flyers fan

Again, apparently games 4 and 5 weren’t elimination game….but 6 and 7 were….more of that rich logic

“outplayed.” Clearly you don’t know the meaning of the word….
Evan Rodriguez: 7-4-3-7
McDavid: 7-3-8-11
But sure, “outplayed” also, Evan had only 1 assist through games 6 and 7, and was a -1….but sure, “outplayed.”

Also, Crosby had 0 points in games 6 and 7 in ‘09, was a -1. He also barely played in game 7….but in your limited mind, THATS showing up for elimination games…

The amount of hate directed at McDavid/joy in the oilers loss from Pittsburgh penguins fans online (not just on here) is staggering. You’d have thought that we won a cup or that some significant real life villain was slain. Especially considering they are a non rival and play in another conference. I obviously am a pens fan and have been since I started going to games in the late 70s/early 80s before hockey got popular here but I am a hockey fan just as much as I am a penguins fan.

Of players that I’ve gotten to see over the course of that time it’s been easily Gretzky, Lemieux and McDavid in that order as the three best. I comment on McDavid a lot on here because the level he’s reached since 2020-21 is the best since Lemieux 88-93 and I got to see a lot of that up close. He’s also probably the most talented player I’ve seen (doesn’t mean best but he’s insane). I get to enjoy that without feeling the need to denigrate and pray for failures to come his way.

Most of what I’ve heard in person around where I’m from and online from our fans ranges from childish to disgusting. It is very much a “living in your head rent free” thing. It’s like that with Gretzky being better than Lemieux back in the day and it’s the same now with McDavid being better than Crosby. It will probably only get worse as McDavid actually has a career (not peak) trajectory higher than Lemieux and a ceiling of 2nd ever objectively speaking.

Also for the sake of the topic Crosby in 09 was pointless for games 5, 6 and 7. Was also pointless in games 3, 4 and 5 in 2016 against San Jose.

Crosby’s total finals stats in the three cup runs:

09 finals: 7 GP: 1 G, 2 A, 3 P
16 finals: 6 GP: 0 G, 4 A, 4 P
17 finals: 6 GP: 1 G, 6 A, 7 P
Total: 19 GP: 2 G, 12 A, 14 P

Maybe instead of 1.57 ppg in the finals McDavid should produce 0.74 ppg like Crosby did. I guess if he cuts his production in half to Crosby level maybe it’ll help yield these “big moments” and inspire other players to step up and win cups for him. And for the record before I get attacked I’m appreciative of everything Crosby has done and been for the pens but he was never the reason we won those cups. I said it back then and I’ll say it always. He played well but was not exactly a “take us to the promised land” thing.

 

[Human]

The amount of hate directed at McDavid/joy in the oilers loss from Pittsburgh penguins fans online (not just on here) is staggering. You’d have thought that we won a cup or that some significant real life villain was slain. Especially considering they are a non rival and play in another conference. I obviously am a pens fan and have been since I started going to games in the late 70s/early 80s before hockey got popular here but I am a hockey fan just as much as I am a penguins fan.

Of players that I’ve gotten to see over the course of that time it’s been easily Gretzky, Lemieux and McDavid in that order as the three best. I comment on McDavid a lot on here because the level he’s reached since 2020-21 is the best since Lemieux 88-93 and I got to see a lot of that up close. He’s also probably the most talented player I’ve seen (doesn’t mean best but he’s insane). I get to enjoy that without feeling the need to denigrate and pray for failures to come his way.

Most of what I’ve heard in person around where I’m from and online from our fans ranges from childish to disgusting. It is very much a “living in your head rent free” thing. It’s like that with Gretzky being better than Lemieux back in the day and it’s the same now with McDavid being better than Crosby. It will probably only get worse as McDavid actually has a career (not peak) trajectory higher than Lemieux and a ceiling of 2nd ever objectively speaking.

Also for the sake of the topic Crosby in 09 was pointless for games 5, 6 and 7. Was also pointless in games 3, 4 and 5 in 2016 against San Jose.

Crosby’s total finals stats in the three cup runs:

09 finals: 7 GP: 1 G, 2 A, 3 P
16 finals: 6 GP: 0 G, 4 A, 4 P
17 finals: 6 GP: 1 G, 6 A, 7 P
Total: 19 GP: 2 G, 12 A, 14 P

Maybe instead of 1.57 ppg in the finals McDavid should produce 0.74 ppg like Crosby did. I guess if he cuts his production in half to Crosby level maybe it’ll help yield these “big moments” and inspire other players to step up and win cups for him. And for the record before I get attacked I’m appreciative of everything Crosby has done and been for the pens but he was never the reason we won those cups. I said it back then and I’ll say it always. He played well but was not exactly a “take us to the promised land” thing.

Maybe he should score his 1.57 ppg across the entire series instead of scoring 3ppg in a couple of games and 0ppg in the two games that mattered the most…

You can win tennis games 0-6 0-6 7-6 7-6 7-6.

Same here, it doesn’t mean crap he scored a bunch of points in an 8-1 blowout, and then he went 0ppg in games 6 and 7 of the series.

I’ll make a sketch for you if you have a hard time with the concept…

 

[crowfish]

Maybe he should score his 1.57 ppg across the entire series instead of scoring 3ppg in a couple of games and 0ppg in the two games that mattered the most…

You can win tennis games 0-6 0-6 7-6 7-6 7-6.

Same here, it doesn’t mean crap he scored a bunch of points in an 8-1 blowout, and then he went 0ppg in games 6 and 7 of the series.

I’ll make a sketch for you if you have a hard time with the concept…

McDavid is so good that the haters have officially resorted to critiquing the distribution of his scoring. It has reached laughable levels of coping

The 0 points in game 6 critique is especially stupid considering it was a 5-1 Oilers win where McDavid did not need to score at any point. That game would have been called a 200 ft masterpiece if it was played by Crosby. And btw, in game 7 we would have been talking about him tying it with 7 mins in the 3rd if it wasn't for one of the best stick checks in history, followed up by Hyman being a wrong handed shot away from having a tap in, him changing his angle for a split second allowed it to be blocked.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Maybe he should score his 1.57 ppg across the entire series instead of scoring 3ppg in a couple of games and 0ppg in the two games that mattered the most…

You can win tennis games 0-6 0-6 7-6 7-6 7-6.

Same here, it doesn’t mean crap he scored a bunch of points in an 8-1 blowout, and then he went 0ppg in games 6 and 7 of the series.

I’ll make a sketch for you if you have a hard time with the concept…

Did you not see that Crosby also did that…?

Also they don’t make it to game 7 without his game 5 performance.

11pts in 7 games while needing abdominal surgery

McDavid is so good that the haters have officially resorted to critiquing the distribution of his scoring. It has reached laughable levels of coping

The 0 points in game 6 critique is especially stupid considering it was a 5-1 Oilers win where McDavid did not need to score at any point. That game would have been called a 200 ft masterpiece if it was played by Crosby. And btw, in game 7 we would have been talking about him tying it with 7 mins in the 3rd if it wasn't for one of the best stick checks in history, followed up by Hyman being a wrong handed shot away from having a tap in, him changing his angle for a split second allowed it to be blocked.

“who cares that he had a historic run, did you see how many points in minutes 7-12 in the 3rd periods of game 6’s!? He’s not a leader!!”

It’s truly sad what they’ve resorted to

 

[Human]

I’m definitely not a McDavid hater, I don’t make any money loving or hating a player, and I’m also pretty much too old for that crap.

My point is that in the grand scheme of things it didn’t really matter if he scored a ton of points or not, did it?

On that point, I pretty much don’t like a player on the losing side winning the CS, but the difference in points was so massive it makes it hard to complain.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Maybe he should score his 1.57 ppg across the entire series instead of scoring 3ppg in a couple of games and 0ppg in the two games that mattered the most…

You can win tennis games 0-6 0-6 7-6 7-6 7-6.

Same here, it doesn’t mean crap he scored a bunch of points in an 8-1 blowout, and then he went 0ppg in games 6 and 7 of the series.

I’ll make a sketch for you if you have a hard time with the concept…

Basically, put standards on McDavid and form an agenda that fits your need and want to hate on him. Sounds about right.

I’m definitely not a McDavid hater, I don’t make any money loving or hating a player, and I’m also pretty much too old for that crap.

My point is that in the grand scheme of things it didn’t really matter if he scored a ton of points or not, did it?

On that point, I pretty much don’t like a player on the losing side winning the CS, but the difference in points was so massive it makes it hard to complain.

So would it have been better if he scored no points in those ELIMINATION games and went out in 4? What would your opinion of him be then?

The guy puts on a clinic in the finals while a majority of the his team stayed silent and that’s somehow his fault.

 

[Spektre]

The people who vote Gretzky over Lemieux won’t be happy to learn Gretzky will now be #3

 

[edog37]

The fact that my avatar triggers you so much is exactly why I have it, and I’m not even a flyers fan

Again, apparently games 4 and 5 weren’t elimination game….but 6 and 7 were….more of that rich logic

“outplayed.” Clearly you don’t know the meaning of the word….
Evan Rodriguez: 7-4-3-7
McDavid: 7-3-8-11
But sure, “outplayed” also, Evan had only 1 assist through games 6 and 7, and was a -1….but sure, “outplayed.”

Also, Crosby had 0 points in games 6 and 7 in ‘09, was a -1. He also barely played in game 7….but in your limited mind, THATS showing up for elimination games…

Rodriguez is a journeyman, McDavid makes over $10 million per year. Which team got better value?

Crosby scored the golden goal, he out-dueled Ovechkin all three times, he elevated guys Dupuis & Kunitz in those playoffs runs, he was a monster in ‘16 & ‘17. And he has torched the Flyers throughout his career.

 

[blundluntman]

The people who vote Gretzky over Lemieux won’t be happy to learn Gretzky will now be #3

Fair enough, Jordan and Messi are pretty great too.

 

[WalterLundy]

Rodriguez is a journeyman, McDavid makes over $10 million per year. Which team got better value?

Crosby scored the golden goal, he out-dueled Ovechkin all three times, he elevated guys Dupuis & Kunitz in those playoffs runs, he was a monster in ‘16 & ‘17. And he has torched the Flyers throughout his career.

Not sure I would play that game here. Evan Rodrigues had 4 goals and 7 points in the finals. That is a better showing than Crosby has ever had in a Stanley cup final. Same amount of points and more goals than any finals output he’s ever had. As a matter of fact Rodriguez scored as many goals in one finals as Crosby has in his entire 25 finals games (4 goals). Yet Connor McDavid had more assists than Evan Rodriguez had points in this final.

Sidney Crosby didn’t “outduel” Ovechkin three times. We must not have watched the same hockey games. Ovechkin was “out dueled” once in the three years the penguins beat the capitals en route to cup wins. The penguins beat the capitals. This narrative here is so false.

In 2009
Ovechkin: 7 GP: 8 G, 6 A, 14 P, +5
Crosby: 7 GP: 8 G, 5 A, 13 P, +4

In 2016
Ovechkin: 6 GP: 2 G, 5 A, 7 P, +2
Crosby: 6 GP: 0 G, 2 A, 2 P, -3

In 2017
Ovechkin: 7 GP: 2 G, 3 A, 5 P, -5
Crosby: 6 GP: 2 G, 5 A, 7 P, +4

For their career matchups in the playoffs their stats are as follows:

Ovechkin:
25 GP: 15 G, 18 A, 33 P, + 6
Crosby:
25 GP: 13 G, 17 A, 30 P, +5

If anything Crosby was actually out dueled by Ovechkin. Hockey is a team sport and teams win.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Rodriguez is a journeyman, McDavid makes over $10 million per year. Which team got better value?

Crosby scored the golden goal, he out-dueled Ovechkin all three times, he elevated guys Dupuis & Kunitz in those playoffs runs, he was a monster in ‘16 & ‘17. And he has torched the Flyers throughout his career.

So now we are going from, “he outplayed McDavid” to “well, he makes significantly less AND played great..so clearly.” Move the goalposts more bud.

Again with the Golden goal. We get it, he scored the golden goal. Is that your only argument you’re going to bring up?

By the way, Ovechkin out played Crosby in 2016. Not close

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Second best of all time?
Not likely.
I could see him grabbing fourth maybe behind Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux.
But I think he really needs at least a Cup to do that. I’m certainly not blaming him for not winning this year but let’s remember we’re talking about the greatest of all time. Cups actually do matter.

 

[WalterLundy]

So now we are going from, “he outplayed McDavid” to “well, he makes significantly less AND played great..so clearly.” Move the goalposts more bud.

Again with the Golden goal. We get it, he scored the golden goal. Is that your only argument you’re going to bring up?

By the way, Ovechkin out played Crosby in 2016. Not close

There are no arguments for Crosby over McDavid. They literally don’t exist so I guess things will be repeated as there is no more material. Stats for peak, prime, even sample size are all in his favor. Regular and adjusted for both Regular season and playoffs. Their individual trophy cases are also not close. McDavid already has more hardware in 9 years than Crosby has in his 19 years. All that is left at this point is moments and team accomplishments (cups won largely for him and golden goals). They also try to utilize the “all around game” and defensive prowess but those have no statistical merit to them whatsoever.

Then there’s also the head to head stats (picture added). I go to many pens games as a season ticket holder and have seen Edmonton all but one time when they came to Pittsburgh and every time is a domination. The stats show that here. It’s as brutal as I’ve ever seen.

 

[GreatGonzo]

There are no arguments for Crosby over McDavid. They literally don’t exist so I guess things will be repeated as there is no more material. Stats for peak, prime, even sample size are all in his favor. Regular and adjusted for both Regular season and playoffs. Their individual trophy cases are also not close. McDavid already has more hardware in 9 years than Crosby has in his 19 years. All that is left at this point is moments and team accomplishments (cups won largely for him and golden goals). They also try to utilize the “all around game” and defensive prowess but those have no statistical merit to them whatsoever.

Then there’s also the head to head stats (picture added). I go to many pens games as a season ticket holder and have seen Edmonton all but one time when they came to Pittsburgh and every time is a domination. The stats show that here. It’s as brutal as I’ve ever seen.

His overall resume is very impressive. People will use Cups and Gold medals to boost his case, which I get. But that’s all without context of course. The “defense” argument simply comes from a lazy place. It’s basically an attemp to “equal” McDavids offensive output, which IMO is greater than Crosby.

 

[ozzie]

Needs a cup or a finals where he doesn't vanish for 2 games to truly climb that mountain and become a legend. If he had a great game 7 and still lost, I'd probably feel differently. but he and the team should have never been down 3-0.