Connor McDavid: 150 Points Watch (32GP: 53 Points - 135.8 Pace (1.66 PPG))

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Habs10025

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Sep 28, 2017
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The funny part is Forsberg never really made a point of it to be much of a goal scorer in the regular season like Crosby did for a few seasons there, but even still look at their playoff stats...

Crosby : 174 games - 69 goals - 122 - 191 points

Forsberg: 151 games - 64 goals - 107 - 171 points (bulk of this came in the lowest scoring playoff era of all time which actually had averages of less than 5 goals per game some seasons) + notably better defense and physical play.

Crosby ranks higher for career and was even more consistent than Forsberg from season to season (regular season atleast) but at their best and when it mattered most it's delusional to claim Crosby was easily better.
Crosby is a better player .
 

4BlindMice

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Jan 13, 2022
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How's his last 10 games been?

Is he still Wayne Gretzky or it more like Wayne Simmonds?
 

Regal

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Mar 12, 2010
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Half the season played. McDavid 60P in 41GP. 1.46 PPG. 40 games remaining for McD. Keeping this pace will land him at 118p.

To reach 150p. He needs to have 90 in 40 games. That's a 2.25 ppg pace. This is pretty much out of the question at this point.
To reach 140p. He needs to have 80 in 40 games. 2.0 ppg pace. I don't think this is possible either.
To reach 129p (and beat Kucherovs best season). He needs to have 69p in 40g. 1.725 ppg pace. Not impossible, but very hard. For every one point game he has the rest of the season he needs to have have 2.5 point game to make up for it.



He finished last year with 36 points in his final 14 games. I still wouldn’t put 130+ past him. He’s always capable of going off
 

psycat

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Oct 25, 2016
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Well if Mcdavid is likely to pass Crosby (he is pretty far away yet, but who knows) isn't he passing Ovechkin as well?

Also I'm not sure if you are talking about who is the BEST player or the GREATEST player or if you are switching between the two? You seem to value peak abnormally high. If we are only talking one season peak in goal scoring -- that would mean Ovechkin would be behind Gretzky (92 goal season), Lemieux (85 goal and 69 gin 60gp), Hull (86g season), Selanne (76 as a rookie). Hell if we are talking a one season scoring peak -- then Ovi wouldn't be the greatest goal scorer anymore.

You have to look at the whole body of work when comparing players otherwise the sample is just too small to make any conclusions.

I have Ovechkin ranked quite a bit higher than Crosby, I am not so sure Ovechkin is the greatest goalscorer of all time(he is certainly not the best) but atleast an argument could be made based on career(absolutely not for peak).

Brett Hull is underrated but doesn't really match up(although it's certainly closer than most admit), I wouldn't hesitate to say that he might have had Ovechkin beat in terms of goalscoring at his absolute best, but here the "when it's close career decides" clearly applies since it's like 10-15 years vs a handful, also Brett was a worse player than Ovi in pretty much any department except goalscoring at their bests. Crosby vs Brett Hull? Not so sure id rank Crosby above but it's really apples to oranges.

In my world a player can't "compile" above someone with clearly more dominant peak/prime but if two players are somewhat even in terms of peak longveity will decide the outcome, ideally a player have both if they wan't to be in top 10 of all time but Orr-tier excellence can't be trumped by a longer career(Bourque), Crosby lacks the peak to even begin to enter the discussion. There are like 10 Canadian centers with similiar peak, heck there are arguably 4 centers currently in the league that match Crosby for peak.
 
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Beljavskij

Registered User
Jan 10, 2022
107
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The funny part is Forsberg never really made a point of it to be much of a goal scorer in the regular season like Crosby did for a few seasons there, but even still look at their playoff stats...

Crosby : 174 games - 69 goals - 122 - 191 points

Forsberg: 151 games - 64 goals - 107 - 171 points (bulk of this came in the lowest scoring playoff era of all time which actually had averages of less than 5 goals per game some seasons) + notably better defense and physical play.

Crosby ranks higher for career and was even more consistent than Forsberg from season to season (regular season atleast) but at their best and when it mattered most it's delusional to claim Crosby was easily better.

Like, Forsberg just purposefully chose not to score? :huh:

Not sure I agree with you there. Btw, big fan of Forsberg. Beast of a player at his best. But remember that Forsberg played second fiddle behind Sakic who faced the toughest opponents. Forsberg had easier match-ups. Crosby always faces the opponents shut down players. Still, Forsberg was a great point producer in the playoffs. However, Crosby has him beat in goals, assists, points, finals appearances, Stanley cups and Conn Smythes. Crosby has three seasons as good or better than Forsbergs best -- point wise.
 

Regal

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Mar 12, 2010
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I have Ovechkin ranked quite a bit higher than Crosby, I am not so sure Ovechkin is the greatest goalscorer of all time(he is certainly not the best) but atleast an argument could be made based on career(absolutely not for peak).

Brett Hull is underrated but doesn't really match up(although it's certainly closer than most admit), I wouldn't hesitate to say that he might have had Ovechkin beat in terms of goalscoring at his absolute best, but here the "when it's close career decides" clearly applies since it's like 10-15 years vs a handful, also Brett was a worse player than Ovi in pretty much any department except goalscoring at their bests. Crosby vs Brett Hull? Not so sure id rank Crosby above but it's really apples to oranges.

In my world a player can't "compile" above someone with clearly more dominant peak/prime but if two players are somewhat even in terms of peak longveity will decide the outcome, ideally a player have both if they wan't to be in top 10 of all time but Orr-tier excellence can't be trumped by a longer career(Bourque), Crosby lacks the peak to even begin to enter the discussion. There are like 10 Canadian centers with similiar peak, heck there are arguably 4 centers currently in the league that match Crosby for peak.

Yikes.
 

Beljavskij

Registered User
Jan 10, 2022
107
107
I have Ovechkin ranked quite a bit higher than Crosby, I am not so sure Ovechkin is the greatest goalscorer of all time(he is certainly not the best) but atleast an argument could be made based on career(absolutely not for peak).

Brett Hull is underrated but doesn't really match up(although it's certainly closer than most admit), I wouldn't hesitate to say that he might have had Ovechkin beat in terms of goalscoring at his absolute best, but here the "when it's close career decides" clearly applies since it's like 10-15 years vs a handful, also Brett was a worse player than Ovi in pretty much any department except goalscoring at their bests. Crosby vs Brett Hull? Not so sure id rank Crosby above but it's really apples to oranges.

In my world a player can't "compile" above someone with clearly more dominant peak/prime but if two players are somewhat even in terms of peak longveity will decide the outcome, ideally a player have both if they wan't to be in top 10 of all time but Orr-tier excellence can't be trumped by a longer career(Bourque), Crosby lacks the peak to even begin to enter the discussion. There are like 10 Canadian centers with similiar peak, heck there are arguably 4 centers currently in the league that match Crosby for peak.

I think you are really stretching here. What makes you want to rank Hull over Crosby? The only thing Hull has over Crosby is goals. In just about everything else Crosby is better -- hardware, cups, basically every statistical category except goals.
 

tfwnogf

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Dec 15, 2013
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3,385
It feels like he's been 58-60 points forever, but 60 at half season mark, his club still has 40 games left, he could certainly still hit 135+ if he pops off. Still very much in the art ross race, if he explodes he will run away with it. Would love to see a 130+ season for the first time in decades.
 
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Dust

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It is sort of comical that he's been in a month + long cold streak, and he could still have 1 or 2 good games and take over the points lead again.
 

psycat

Registered User
Oct 25, 2016
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I think you are really stretching here. What makes you want to rank Hull over Crosby? The only thing Hull has over Crosby is goals. In just about everything else Crosby is better -- hardware, cups, basically every statistical category except goals.

Simply a higher peak in my mind but I would, gun to the head, rank Crosby above but at their best for a season(or 3 really) I would go with Hull and it's not like he was a slouch in the playoffs either leading them in scoring etc, but it's certainly debatable, Ovechkin is just a clear step up from Hull. I think that he and Esposito are two of the most underrated players on these boards for whatever reasons. Crosby, Harvey and Richard the unholy trinity of overratedness, doesn't mean they werent great players.

Ayway to much off topic and I am fully aware I am in the minority in my beliefs so ill just leave it at that.
 
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authentic

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Jan 28, 2015
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Like, Forsberg just purposefully chose not to score? :huh:

Not sure I agree with you there. Btw, big fan of Forsberg. Beast of a player at his best. But remember that Forsberg played second fiddle behind Sakic who faced the toughest opponents. Forsberg had easier match-ups. Crosby always faces the opponents shut down players. Still, Forsberg was a great point producer in the playoffs. However, Crosby has him beat in goals, assists, points, finals appearances, Stanley cups and Conn Smythes. Crosby has three seasons as good or better than Forsbergs best -- point wise.

Based on an analysis from overpass:

From 1995-2004


Forsberg was on the ice for more goals for at even strength and fewer goals against. Are there any possible reasons, beyond the obvious conclusion that Forsberg was better?

Sakic played more even strength minutes than Forsberg. In the years that we have data, Sakic always played more minutes, about 5% more per game at even strength from 1998-2004. This means that their defensive results are closer than the initial examination showed, but Forsberg's offensive edge grows.

Another possible reason is the reason that some have given earlier - Sakic played tougher minutes than Forsberg, facing the best players and taking more defensive zone faceoffs. If true, this would certainly affect the numbers. I don't think that the preferences of opposing coaches would play into this too much - it's likely that some would plan to shut Sakic down, and others would plan to shut Forsberg down. I think we have to look to the preferences of the Colorado coach, and I think offensive zone faceoffs vs defensive zone faceoffs is the biggest possible source of bias in the numbers. I wasn't watching for this kind of thing at the time, so I can't offer an opinion, but it's certainly a valid point.

The third option is that Forsberg was better at preventing goals than Sakic - probably more through puck possession in the offensive zone rather than defensive play without the puck. Even if Sakic was the better defensive player, Forsberg's edge in puck possession made his defensive results just as good or better, and his offensive results better at even strength.

Both were excellent on the power play, and overall I don't see an edge for either in the stats in this area. Sakic certainly contributed more as a penalty killer. I don't know if that's enough to make up Forsberg's edge as a better even strength scorer. My guess is no. Killing penalties is valuable, but a lot of players can do it, and I don't know that Sakic was that far above replacement in this area.

Additionally...

"His even-strength numbers are superb. Among post-expansion forwards, only Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr, Lafleur, and Esposito were better even-strength scorers in their prime. Forsberg was on the ice for many fewer (scoring adjusted) goals against than any of them except for Lafleur, suggesting that he was either a strong defensive player (whether by backchecking or by puck possession) or he was scoring his points in fewer minutes.

He was also an excellent power play scorer. After adjusting for scoring level, his power play scoring is among the best post-expansion, behind Lemieux and Esposito, close behind Gretzky and Crosby, and similar to Lafleur, Dionne, Bossy, Sakic, Thornton, and Ovechkin.

He killed penalties in his earlier years in the league as well, before injuries slowed him.

His 2003 season was excellent - arguably the best season of anyone up for voting. He had 94 even strength goals for and only 38 against, and Colorado was slightly outscored while he was on the bench."
 

Mr Buckles

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Jun 6, 2018
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Seems like he's quietly picking up steam again. 8 points in his last 4 games.

And from stat-watching it looks like he's developing some chemistry with Yamamoto.
 
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Mulletman

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Feb 23, 2013
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There's clearly something wrong with McDavid. When you look at his face he looks dead inside after scoring the game winning goal here:
Plus he totally fumbled the puck earlier on the Yamamotho goal.
Sure he still leads the league with 87 points but he's clearly not 100 % healthy...
 

Vancouver Canucks

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Feb 8, 2015
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There's clearly something wrong with McDavid. When you look at his face he looks dead inside after scoring the game winning goal here:
Plus he totally fumbled the puck earlier on the Yamamotho goal.
Sure he still leads the league with 87 points but he's clearly not 100 % healthy...

87 points despite not being healthy. Generational talent there.
 

oilfan96

Registered User
Dec 2, 2021
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This man is taking high sticks like crazy. Will he have any teeth left by the end of the season?

He seems all business right now, let's see what he can do in the playoffs.
 

Vancouver Canucks

Registered User
Feb 8, 2015
14,585
2,587
This man is taking high sticks like crazy. Will he have any teeth left by the end of the season?

He seems all business right now, let's see what he can do in the playoffs.
It would be nice, if he wears a caged helmet. That should help him.
 

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