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Blue Jays Discussion: Confirmed: Vladimir Guerrero Jr is still good at baseball

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Zur En Arrh said:
Umm, he never said it was a witch hunt because he was white. Way to put words in his mouth. That was alarmingly disingenuous. He was referring to him being a pain in the ass/troll. Which if you do that stuff today you are immediately called alt right.

he was never charged, he was never convicted by a jury of his peers. In my mind he's innocent until, ready for it? Proven guilty! Accusations does not constitute guilt. He shouldn't be suspended at all imo.
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He deleted a follow-up post where he removed all possible doubt, but what do you think he meant when he out of nowhere brought up his complaint about POC being given more lenient treatment and then accused MLB of judging him harshly because he was a member of a "problematic demographic"?

MLB conducted a nearly year-long investigation into the matter before making their decision. It goes beyond a mere accusation. If you think they were wrong based on your own research, then it will be super simple for his team of highly paid lawyers to prove it.
 
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Zur En Arrh said:
Umm, he never said it was a witch hunt because he was white. Way to put words in his mouth. That was alarmingly disingenuous. He was referring to him being a pain in the ass/troll. Which if you do that stuff today you are immediately called alt right.

he was never charged, he was never convicted by a jury of his peers. In my mind he's innocent until, ready for it? Proven guilty! Accusations does not constitute guilt. He shouldn't be suspended at all imo.
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Exactly.

The DA literally dropped the criminal case against him because they couldn't actually find anything. The MLB can't even figure out which baseballs to use, how to fix the umpiring nonsense, or even how to keep their league from going into lockout threat every ~3 years...but I'm supposed to believe that they have "deeper insight" into Bauer's criminal case than the DA, such that it warrants their clown-show suspension?

José Torres - 100 game suspension
Odúbel Herrera - 85 game suspension
Héctor Olivera - 82 game suspension

All of these guys were CHARGED with domestic abuse/assault crimes. Trevor Bauer's charges were DROPPED, and yet he's effectively getting a 423 game suspension (324 games + the 99 games he's already served).

So you see, the MLB has already set a precedent. In this case, Bauer's "crime" is actually significantly LESS than the above mentioned players - because he hasn't actually been proven of doing ANYTHING. As he has already served 99 games for a crime that he actually hasn't even been proven to have committed, he shouldn't face any further suspension at all.

So use Occam's Razor - why would it be the case that Bauer is getting 4-5x more games than woman-beaters who actually were found guilty? Hmm, could it be because Bauer is problematic in terms of his "antics" towards some of the perceived demographics that MLB is trying to weasel themselves as being "friendly" towards? Could it be because he has been critical and outspoken about the MLB itself? Let me remind you all that posting brash Twitter messages and "trolling" are not criminal offenses. The fact that he may or may not be a jerk does not warrant him getting trumped up charges filed against him.

What really happened is that the current climate backed the MLB into a corner, and they'd face Twitter-Hellfire if they didn't make an example out of Bauer, which is what has been going on this entire time from the very beginning in this case. Anyone who supports this has no sense of justice, and to get "giddy" over a guy losing his career over a circus-court form of "trial" actually says more about you than it does about Bauer's perceived flaws. The race-stuff is obvious - if he was any other race the MLB wouldn't dare to try to pull this mess in a situation where there is literally no corroborating proof that he is even guilty. Could you imagine that? A black MLB player gets 400+ games while his criminal case is dropped? Would never happen in a million years, so ask yourself why it's OK to happen in this case?
 
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Kurtz said:
He deleted a follow-up post where he removed all possible doubt, but what do you think he meant when he out of nowhere brought up his complaint about POC being given more lenient treatment and then accused MLB of judging him harshly because he was a member of a "problematic demographic"?
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I didn't delete anything. If my post is gone, it's because a Mod deleted it.

The rest of the stuff is explained very clearly in my post above.

Lots of guys have actually been proven guilty of domestic abuse, and have been suspended "X" games. If you can explain to me why someone who's charges were dropped and to date has not been found guilty of anything is getting 400+ games, I'm all ears.
 
Kurtz said:
He deleted a follow-up post where he removed all possible doubt, but what do you think he meant when he out of nowhere brought up his complaint about POC being given more lenient treatment and then accused MLB of judging him harshly because he was a member of a "problematic demographic"?

MLB conducted a nearly year-long investigation into the matter before making their decision. It goes beyond a mere accusation. If you think they were wrong based on your own research, then it will be super simple for his team of highly paid lawyers to prove it.
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It is after his playing career, but Roberto Alomar was banned without any criminal charges being laid.
 
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Regarding the Bauer situation, an organization, etc. can suspend an employee if they have evidence of a crime.

As an example, I am a teacher, and teachers(at least in BC) can be reprimanded or have their teaching license removed if the Teacher Regulation Branch has evidence of wrongdoing. There can be less evidence needed than someone who is guilty criminally. A former teacher who taught when I was in middle school had their teaching license removed but never was convicted of a crime.
 
Good article by Heyman on the Bauer situation to hopefully close this discussion:
nypost.com

Two-year ban may end Trevor Bauer’s MLB career — and he’s certainly earned it

The ban on its surface seems severe. But it’s probably the safest play MLB can make. And maybe the only play for this loathsome loser.
nypost.com nypost.com

To draw this sort of ban, MLB has to think it has the goods on him, even beyond one woman’s ugly accusations of repeated sexual abuse and certainly beyond what was heard in two courts of law, where Bauer was judged not to have been proven to do anything criminal. The Washington Post has reported there was a second accuser. MLB did a 10-month investigation, and there’s nothing to conclude beyond commissioner Rob Manfred’s belief that Bauer doesn’t deserve much of a career anymore.
 
MLB is not a legal justice system and there are many things that are not crimes - gambling, PEDs, etc - that will generate longer suspensions than things that are crimes.

The Bauer thing is a weird/unprecedented situation in that it may not be a crime but is somehow actually *worse* than domestic assault crimes. Like, the Osuna thing was obviously very bad but he probably didn’t enjoy it when it happened and probably regrets it. Bauer gets off on beating up women which is seriously disgusting and I can totally understand why a private organization would not want this piece of crap to be part of their entity. It’s a lot easier to forgive a drunken outburst then being a twisted pervert.
 
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metafour said:
I didn't delete anything. If my post is gone, it's because a Mod deleted it.

The rest of the stuff is explained very clearly in my post above.

Lots of guys have actually been proven guilty of domestic abuse, and have been suspended "X" games. If you can explain to me why someone who's charges were dropped and to date has not been found guilty of anything is getting 400+ games, I'm all ears.
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In the Civil case, Bauer's team didn't contest that he beat her into unconsciousness and had anal sex with her. Their argument is that everything he did was consensual (the ONLY details that Bauer contests are whether her skull was fractured and his argument that she "asked for it"

You can see how a judge ruling that a girl coming back after rough sex for more equates to consenting to nearly be killed might suggest to a prosecutor that other judges in the same area might look the same way if he were tried criminally.
 
Trying to forget last night, but I keep remembering that every bad pitch involved pitchers hitting Heineman's glove. He's the worst defensive catcher we've had since Arencibia and has no business in the majors.

In 2 starts, we've given up 18 runs.

The other 19 games have had 70 runs allowed.
 
metafour said:
The fact that you are celebrating this is pretty disgusting.
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Surprised? The title of this very topic is a slight towards a man currently struggling with cancer.
Kurtz said:
I do know that he's an asshole though, and I do enjoy seeing assholes get their just desserts
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This from a guy who joined in on a hate parade just because someone criticized his favourite player.
 
If you want to eat 36M sure. And that's not happening at this stage. I guess they can't send him down for work? Maybe call it a conditioning stint? etc. I mean it looks like the velocity is there . He has no control. Its either too far out of the K zone or its down the middle aka meatball.

His last 8 starts have not been pretty. Going back to last year. I wonder what happened.
 
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TGB said:
Surprised? The title of this very topic is a slight towards a man currently struggling with cancer.
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No it's not.

1) The thing you're claiming as the genesis of the thread title is actually that guys get called "a baseball player" not that they're "good at baseball". Two different kinds of statement. You're wrong about the content base you're accusing.

2) Its Tabler that says "he's a baseball player/athlete". Buck may say it from time to time, but Tabler is the one who always gets stick for it. You're wrong about the victim of your incorrect accusation.

3) The thread title has nothing to do with any media personality or their sayings. It's just understatement for comedic effect. You're wrong about the context of the accusation.

4) Even if it was a slight against Buck, the thread has existed since early April, well before Buck's health issues were made public. Unless you're going to argue that I can see the future and chose to take the non-existent shot at Buck with foreknowledge of what would be revealed, the worst that this thread title could be construed as is a terrible almost-coincidence (because a real coincidence would've required something topical to the eventual revelation. Like a cancer reference or something.) You're wrong about the intent of the accusation.

Thats 4 strikes. And I don't see Angel Hernandez around here to give you til 5.
 
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