Common Sense Line-up for 2014-2015

[DanZ]

Its 30 for 30 for the Wings on nhl.com, and thought this was a good article on Weiss.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728328&navid=DL|NHL|home

Sounds promising. If he can return to his former 50+ point self it will be a huge boost to the lineup and our center depth.

Datsyuk
Weiss
Sheahan
Helm

Not bad.

 

[joe89]

Sounds promising. If he can return to his former 50+ point self it will be a huge boost to the lineup and our center depth.

Datsyuk
Weiss
Sheahan
Helm

Not bad.

Even 50 points on a wing would be very good news for our depth and would give us a few more options.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Kronner Big Rig
Quincey Smith
Kindl Lashoff

*Jurco, Mantha to Grand Rapids

Not sure if I missed anybody.

Dekeyser.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Sounds promising. If he can return to his former 50+ point self it will be a huge boost to the lineup and our center depth.

Datsyuk
Weiss
Sheahan
Helm

Not bad.

Helm is a China doll. Sooner or later Andersson is your 4th line center.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Helm is a China doll. Sooner or later Andersson is your 4th line center.

The two injuries that have kept Helm out the longest were freak accidents. Is Kronwall still a China doll as well?

Additionally, Glendening played center over Andersson last season. Good chance that he'd just move back there if we needed a 4th line center. Andersson would make more sense if Sheahan missed time, as he has past success playing with Tatar and his speed becomes less of an issue when he's playing with quick, puck carriers like Tatar and/or Nyquist.

 

[Frk It]

Great read on zone entries for the Wings: http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2014/8/21/6050667/zone-entries-and-the-red-wings

If this isn't a ringing endorsement for putting Smith on the PP, I'm not sure what is.

I don't know how to embed the charts in this article, but could someone embed the zone stats for forwards and d men?

 

[Frk It]

Some highlights:

We've noted here before that whenever somebody gets to play with Tatar or Nyquist, they get a notable bump in possession

The clincher is that Brendan Smith attempted to carry the puck in and failed only 6.5% of the time, which was the best rate on the entire team regardless of position

 

[Crymson]

Some highlights:

The possession statistics of every single defenseman on the team improved when they were paired with Smith. DeKeyser's CF% saw a whopping 12% increase when playing alongside him.

 

[AD1066]

To me, common sense begins with putting Jurco on the top line with Dats and Z.

Big body, can "push the piano", but skilled enough to finish in situations when Abby otherwise would not be able to.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

The clincher is that Brendan Smith attempted to carry the puck in and failed only 6.5% of the time, which was the best rate on the entire team regardless of position

Which means he doesn't have much respect for his coach, since Babcock wants them to dump it in.

Wiley veterans like Quincey and Abdelkader understand that in order to play the piano, you must first shoot it across the offensive zone and then catch back up to it.

 

[Henkka]

To me, common sense begins with putting Jurco on the top line with Dats and Z.

Big body, can "push the piano", but skilled enough to finish in situations when Abby otherwise would not be able to.

At the playoffs we could see this. Regular season is for overripening.

 

[Flowah]

At the playoffs we could see this. Regular season is for overripening.

Doesn't it make more sense to ease a kid into the NHL during the regular season instead of tossing him into the inferno that is the NHL playoffs? Plus, chemistry is a thing and it isn't instant. Give a kid time to acclimate to his linemates.

 

[Flowah]

Great read on zone entries for the Wings: http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2014/8/21/6050667/zone-entries-and-the-red-wings

If this isn't a ringing endorsement for putting Smith on the PP, I'm not sure what is.

I don't know how to embed the charts in this article, but could someone embed the zone stats for forwards and d men?

I'd love to know someone in the Wing's analytics department and pick their brains about stuff like this. Like, does Babcock listen to them? Do they tell him these things? Do they have a different set of stats they track and trust more?

 

[Frk It]

For those of you arguing that Nyquist being buried did not affect the season we ultimately ended up having...

I leave you with this:

Maybe that doesn't sound like a lot, but let's project that over the course of a full season. Nyquist was on pace for about 400 entries of any kind over the course of the season. In a world where both players had 400 entries, Nyquist's entries would be worth 52 more shots over the course of the season, or 4-5 goals. That's probably worth 1-2 points in the standings, That's probably worth 1-2 points in the standings, which means the Wings play a much more beatable Pittsburgh team in round 1 instead of the Bruins

Play the best players.

 

[DanZ]

To me, common sense begins with putting Jurco on the top line with Dats and Z.

Big body, can "push the piano", but skilled enough to finish in situations when Abby otherwise would not be able to.

I agree. Jurco is just as effective as Abdelkader at using his body and working the puck down low. Difference is, he has the skill to make passes and bury pucks and generally complement the skill sets of Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Abdelakder has the skill of a 3rd or 4th liner, not a 1st liner.

I love Abdelkader, but he's a great bottom 6er.

Great read on zone entries for the Wings: http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2014/8/21/6050667/zone-entries-and-the-red-wings

If this isn't a ringing endorsement for putting Smith on the PP, I'm not sure what is.

I don't know how to embed the charts in this article, but could someone embed the zone stats for forwards and d men?

This is partly why I think a DeKeyser/Smith pairing could work great. DeKeyser isn't as good at the zone entries, but Smith isn't as good in the defensive zone. I think together they could complement each other quite well.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Doesn't it make more sense to ease a kid into the NHL during the regular season instead of tossing him into the inferno that is the NHL playoffs? Plus, chemistry is a thing and it isn't instant. Give a kid time to acclimate to his linemates.

Absolutely. The other big factor is that this isn't the 08 or 09 squad that is the clear cut favorite in the league. We had the opportunity to let players like Helm and Abdelkader to play big minutes in GR before bringing them up for the postseason because how deep and talented those squads were. Regular season wins are much more important during this time.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

This is partly why I think a DeKeyser/Smith pairing could work great. DeKeyser isn't as good at the zone entries, but Smith isn't as good in the defensive zone. I think together they could complement each other quite well.

Yeah I could definitely see them playing well together. Something we'll probably see before too long.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

For those of you arguing that Nyquist being buried did not affect the season we ultimately ended up having...

I leave you with this:



Play the best players.

Yeah, but clearly that goes against the philosophy of the front office these days.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Also, Datsyuk's % is remarkable, especially when you consider he didn't even have that productive a season by his standards.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Also, Datsyuk's % is remarkable, especially when you consider he didn't even have that productive a season by his standards.

noticed that but once his knee started to give him more problems he often 'deferred' zone entries and puck carrying to someone else. he did that fair amount in december iirc.

 

[GrimWings]

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Mantha
Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Athanasiou-Helm-Pulkinnen

Kronwall-Ericsson
Dekeyser-Marchenko
Smith-Jensen

Howard
Mrazek

This is a common sense lineup. My belief is that the NHL has evolved in skill to the point where you need 4 scoring lines you can roll one after the other. Taking Miller and Glendening (who are useful PK specialists but not great for much else) out along with Quincey and Kindl and Abdelkader, we might be able to get a few more prospects in trades, give useful NHL experience to our younger defensemen/forwards/Mrazek, and not have 3 million in overage bonus rolling into next year, when we will have to give Nyquist his due, along with Jurco and start thinking about a decent contract for mrazek.

This is all of course under the assumption Alfie doesn't sign.

Forward group with Alfie:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Jurco
Franzen-Weiss-Alfie
Tatar-Sheahan-Nyquist
Mantha-Helm-Pulkinnen

 

[SirloinUB]

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Mantha
Franzen-Weiss-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Athanasiou-Helm-Pulkinnen

Kronwall-Ericsson
Dekeyser-Marchenko
Smith-Jensen

Howard
Mrazek

This is a common sense lineup. My belief is that the NHL has evolved in skill to the point where you need 4 scoring lines you can roll one after the other. Taking Miller and Glendening (who are useful PK specialists but not great for much else) out along with Quincey and Kindl and Abdelkader, we might be able to get a few more prospects in trades, give useful NHL experience to our younger defensemen/forwards/Mrazek, and not have 3 million in overage bonus rolling into next year, when we will have to give Nyquist his due, along with Jurco and start thinking about a decent contract for mrazek.

This is all of course under the assumption Alfie doesn't sign.

Forward group with Alfie:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Jurco
Franzen-Weiss-Alfie
Tatar-Sheahan-Nyquist
Mantha-Helm-Pulkinnen

I don't want to see either of those lineups.
On what basis do you think Athanasiou is ready for the NHL? Even if he is borderline ready, he is better off playing 20 minutes a night in the AHL.
Even If Jensen were NHL ready he is still behind Ouellet, Marchenko, Sproul, Backman in the pecking order and (most likely) ability.

Mantha and Pulkinnen on the 4th line? why? They are better served (especially Mantha) playing 20 minutes a night in the AHL rather than 6 in the NHL. If you don't believe me ask Islanders fans about Nino Niederiter (sp?) playing on their 4th line.

 

[Frk It]

A Jurco-Datsyuk-Mantha line would be awesome to watch.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

A Jurco-Datsyuk-Mantha line would be awesome to watch.

That would be my dream top pairing lineup.

 

[GrimWings]

I don't want to see either of those lineups.
On what basis do you think Athanasiou is ready for the NHL? Even if he is borderline ready, he is better off playing 20 minutes a night in the AHL.
Even If Jensen were NHL ready he is still behind Ouellet, Marchenko, Sproul, Backman in the pecking order and (most likely) ability.

Mantha and Pulkinnen on the 4th line? why? They are better served (especially Mantha) playing 20 minutes a night in the AHL rather than 6 in the NHL. If you don't believe me ask Islanders fans about Nino Niederiter (sp?) playing on their 4th line.

I put Jensen in there beacuse he's probably (IMO) the most NHL ready and best bet for stay at home defensemen who is also a RHD. Let Smith be the offensive threat he is and keep Jensen at home. I used Athanasiou as an example for a skilled fourth line, he might not be ready for the NHL defensively, but he'll move the puck and get more quality scoring chances than our current 4th line. He'll suck defensively of course, but with Babcock I imagine he'll be sheltered. Plus with a less crappy defense, we can afford to do it. I mean we can put Abby down there, but I'd rather not.