Combined Goalie Discussion thread

[zeke]

Let's try an analogy:

Imagine you write a review for a fancy restaurant, saying what a below average meal you had, how poorly the steak was cooked, did not meet expectations. What do you think the takeaway from someone reading that will be, will they think there's a problem with the chef or the restaurant, or attribute your negative experience to "bad luck", "cooking is voodoo"?

Well, next time someone goes to that restaurant, they'll have to wait and see if the place is any good, won't they?

Does that fancy restaurant finish top 5 in its league?

 

[Stephen]

Does that fancy restaurant finish top 5 in its league?

It's very expensive and some people swear by it. The chef has quite the following.

 

[zeke]

It's very expensive and some people swear by it. The chef has quite the following.

As expensive as every other restaurant on the league.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Let's try an analogy:
Imagine you write a review for a fancy restaurant, saying what a below average meal you had, how poorly the steak was cooked, did not meet expectations. What do you think the takeaway from someone reading that will be, will they think there's a problem with the chef or the restaurant, or attribute your negative experience to "bad luck", "cooking is voodoo"? Well, next time someone goes to that restaurant, they'll have to wait and see if the place is any good, won't they?

That's a pretty horrible analogy that really doesn't work or have anything to do with anything we're talking about. But since you've deflected to this instead of addressing my post, a more accurate version of this analogy would be...

You're having dinner with a friend and he suggests a restaurant. You've been there before and it was quite good, so you go to the restaurant, but the chef is rushed and having a rough day and the experience that time ends up being a bit below average. So you go to your friend and yell at him that he's clueless about restaurants and never trust a restaurant he suggests ever again.

 

[IPS]

Not sure what you're saying "on the contrary" to, since your random, incorrect guess about the future has nothing to do with the partial statement you quoted.

I really don't see the "framing this as a horrible disaster before we even play a game". I see reasonably healthy skepticism regarding goalies that have not had good track records as of recent.

A guess? Yes. A good one? Very much so. Everyone knows you will, you're quite predictable around these parts if you haven't noticed.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I really don't see the "framing this as a horrible disaster before we even play a game".

You should read through the rest of this and the other threads then.

A guess? Yes. A good one? Very much so.

A guess? Yes.
A good one? No.
Should you be making random guesses about other people's future opinions in the first place? No.

 

[Stephen]

That's a pretty horrible analogy that really doesn't work or have anything to do with anything we're talking about. But since you've deflected to this instead of addressing my post, a more accurate version of this analogy would be...

You're having dinner with a friend and he suggests a restaurant. You've been there before and it was quite good, so you go to the restaurant, but the chef is rushed and having a rough day and the experience that time ends up being a bit below average. So you go to your friend and yell at him that he's clueless about restaurants and never trust a restaurant he suggests ever again.

You have to remember that I’m giving Campbell a more favorable review than you are though, and I’m stating Dubas won his bet by hitching to Campbell who at least gave us some high points and was overall average and not a problem.

Translation. “I thought the meal was fine, the chef is a little overrated but meh, let’s see next time we go to the restaurant.”

 

[ToneDog]

Let's try an analogy:

Imagine you write a review for a fancy restaurant, saying what a below average meal you had, how poorly the steak was cooked, did not meet expectations. What do you think the takeaway from someone reading that will be, will they think there's a problem with the chef or the restaurant, or attribute your negative experience to "bad luck", "cooking is voodoo"?

Well, next time someone goes to that restaurant, they'll have to wait and see if the place is any good, won't they?

When you are the only restaurant in town and you can sell horse meat for the same price as restaurants in other cities sell fillet mignon, you can hire the neighbourhood wino as your chef, it don't matter. Sadly most of the patrons love their rotten egg breakfasts and crow dinners.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You have to remember that I’m giving Campbell a more favorable review than you are though, and I’m stating Dubas won his bet by hitching to Campbell who at least gave us some high points and was overall average and not a problem.

I haven't given Campbell a bad review. He was overall a good acquisition. You're just for some reason arguing against the basic fact that he was slightly below average last season.

 

[Mess]

Jack Campbell Stats 2021-2022

In Comparison to NHL league averages in Save % and GA/G

&

The Leafs team overall finished below average in SV% with .904 (22nd overall) and below average in GA/G at 3.07 (20th overall)

Jack Campbell however saved the Leafs last year because his personal stats SV% of .914 and his GA/G of 2.64 were both well above the league average, otherwise the Leafs would have been even lower still. He pulled the Leafs team stats up by his performance.

Matt Murray's Stats 2021-2022

Matt Murray's personal stats slightly below league average but very close to league average.

Ilya Samsonov's Stats 2021-2022

Ilya Samsonov personal stats also below league average in both categories.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Jack Campbell however saved the Leafs last year because his personal stats SV% of .914 and his GA/G of 2.64 were both well above the league average

His personal stats were not "well above the league average". You're using SV% because it ignores the significant advantage that Campbell had relative to his competitors as a result of the team's high-end defensive play in front. Campbell's individual performance last season was slightly below average, as seen by his negative GSAx in the regular season and playoffs.

Matt Murray's personal stats slightly below league average but very close to league average.

This is also incorrect. Murray's individual performance last season was above average. Again, you're conveniently ignoring the impact of the horrible defensive play in front of Murray.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yeah, everyone knows Jack Campbell was a good goalie in Toronto. He had a couple of months when he was virtually unbeatable. He also was very poor at times especially December through February. He didn't get win a round for the Leafs and the team decided not to make a five year commitment. Now, we have gone with a different tandem with Murray, a two time champion and Samsonov a young former first round pick. No one knows if it is the answer, but instead of doing something over and expecting different results. The team decided to go this route. It is a positive development, but obviously there are no gaurentees.

 

[justashadowof]

Who will have a better year this season? Campbell as a starter in Edmonton or the best of Murray/Samsonov?

 

[ToneDog]

Who will have a better year this season? Campbell as a starter in Edmonton or the best of Murray/Samsonov?

If Jack helps the Oil win the SC, wonder if he tells Dubas and Shanny to kiss his ass?

 

[ToneDog]

Yeah, everyone knows Jack Campbell was a good goalie in Toronto. He had a couple of months when he was virtually unbeatable. He also was very poor at times especially December through February. He didn't get win a round for the Leafs and the team decided not to make a five year commitment. Now, we have gone with a different tandem with Murray, a two time champion and Samsonov a young former first round pick. No one knows if it is the answer, but instead of doing something over and expecting different results. The team decided to go this route. It is a positive development, but obviously there are no gaurentees.

Jack played above his pay grade and made Dubas look like a genius and not the fool that signed Mrazek for 3x3.8m. The same poster who shits on him now to defend Murray/Samsonov is the same poster that laughed and would not trade Soup for Byram, Newhook and a 1st. LOL.

 

[andora]

Jack played above his pay grade and made Dubas look like a genius and not the fool that signed Mrazek for 3x3.8m. The same poster who shits on him now to defend Murray/Samsonov is the same poster that laughed and would not trade Soup for Byram, Newhook and a 1st. LOL.

What?
Even though the proposal is a joke surely someone wouldnt argue against it

 

[ToneDog]

What?
Even though the proposal is a joke surely someone wouldnt argue against it

Seems like a joke now but at the time, Soup was on fire, the Avs goaltending was a tire fire and Byram had concussion issues.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If Jack helps the Oil win the SC, wonder if he tells Dubas and Shanny to kiss his ass?

That would be a weird and unheard of thing for anybody to do, but especially weird for somebody like Campbell, who is not only one of the kindest people in the game, but somebody that has a lot of respect and appreciation for Dubas/Shanny.

The same poster who shits on him now to defend Murray/Samsonov is the same poster that laughed and would not trade Soup for Byram, Newhook and a 1st.

I don't see anybody dumping on Campbell. What poster are you talking about and where did this happen? Sounds made up.

 

[ToneDog]

That would be a weird and unheard of thing for anybody to do, but especially weird for somebody like Campbell, who is not only one of the kindest people in the game, but somebody that has a lot of respect and appreciation for Dubas/Shanny.

I don't see anybody dumping on Campbell. What poster are you talking about and where did this happen? Sounds made up.

Must be. You know like when video evidence clearly shows one thing and you say it does not. LOL

 

[ACC1224]

If Jack helps the Oil win the SC, wonder if he tells Dubas and Shanny to kiss his ass?

I imagine he takes the high road but there's no doubt Campbell wouldn't be too fond of those two.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Must be.

So it is made up? Why did you feel the need to make claims about a poster that doesn't exist doing something nobody ever did?

You know like when video evidence clearly shows one thing and you say it does not.

Not sure what you mean. When I discuss video evidence, I only say what the video evidence clearly shows.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Nothing will be known until playoffs start .. Leafs should have enough scoring and defense to get a good lead in standings before XMAS and although I suspect things will be a lot closer this year in da fight they should get in .. then will Murray get us through a round or two???? .. I could care less if he is a 905 save % as long as he wins in playoffs when it counts .. from what I saw in Pittsburgh he was da difference maker and king maker for Pens to win da Cups .. lets hope he can be da man here too

 

[Fogelhund]

Nothing will be known until playoffs start .. Leafs should have enough scoring and defense to get a good lead in standings before XMAS and although I suspect things will be a lot closer this year in da fight they should get in .. then will Murray get us through a round or two???? .. I could care less if he is a 905 save % as long as he wins in playoffs when it counts .. from what I saw in Pittsburgh he was da difference maker and king maker for Pens to win da Cups .. lets hope he can be da man here too

I keep tellin' ya. It's going to be Woll in the playoffs, and it's going to be good. You are buying beers, if this off the wall prediction comes good.

 

[29Potvin]

If Jack helps the Oil win the SC, wonder if he tells Dubas and Shanny to kiss his ass?

If the Leafs win a round and the Oil miss the playoffs or lose in round one and Jack plays bad do Dubas and Shanny tell everyone to kiss theirs? Naz said what he said because multiple people within the game all said the same about winning with him on the team, and he proved everyone wrong.

 

[Fogelhund]

If Jack helps the Oil win the SC, wonder if he tells Dubas and Shanny to kiss his ass?

Would be a real happy moment for you?