Rumor: Colorado, Boston, Rangers looking at Atkinson
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EspenK
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- Sep 25, 2011
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Pretty much the same arguments espoused by many last year who downplayed making a bid for Iginla in UFA. He has 35 pts in 54 games. Projects out to 53 over an 82 game season. Does anyone think we couldn't have used Iginla this season and next? Same deal applies to Sharp, I think he would definitely help us.
Dr. Fire
What, me worry?
I still say that this is not the season to truly judge the worth of a player on this team, other then guys that obviously are not cutting it. With all the injuries, and line shuffling there would obviously be some players that would be more productive in a more stable environment.
But I do agree that Cam is not untouchable, and would be fine with him being traded if the return was something that would help us.
But I do agree that Cam is not untouchable, and would be fine with him being traded if the return was something that would help us.
WannabeFinn
Beloved One
Let's think back to free agency. You're thinking/hoping Horton will still be of use to us while carrying 5.3m for the next 6 years. Would you really want to add a declining Iginla for 3 years/16m (the contract he signed with Colorado)?
I can only imagine what would be said about Iginla's contract given what some say about Hartnell's..
I can only imagine what would be said about Iginla's contract given what some say about Hartnell's..
Sharp is at 31 points for the year so far.. definitely a decline from the 78 he had for 13-14 season.
WannabeFinn
Beloved One
Yeah Sharp is declining too but at least he's pretty good on the PK. Still don't really want him, but I guess it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have his contract.
Johansen2Foligno
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Would Sharp really be an upgrade?
The only thing I see him upgrading is the sexy level of this team.
The only thing I see him upgrading is the sexy level of this team.
Not sure why we would want one of their few minus forwards. Good player, rough season to be sure. Having said that his salary is pretty good the next two seasons. We tend to latch on to pipe dreams. I hate using this phrase, but I'm not sure JD/JK see Sharp as a "brick". Plus he's another LW.
Atkinson's value isn't going to be all that high. It's going to be decent, but he seems more of the end of the 1st (to a team looking for that last "piece"), but I don't think he lands an aging Sharp without some other significant pieces thrown in. Then again this is the Hawks, they love cap trouble.
If you ask me if I would trade Cam for Sharp straight up. Sure. We have young. We have a lot of young forwards. Would I rather look for something else? Yeah. Even a diminishing Sharp is light years over Cam. I don't think Sharp is done by any stretch, however it does seem that a decline is in process. Having said that even a diminishing Sharp would still our first truly legit top line winger. Two years, minimum, of that can't be understated.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Except for that whole "UFA signing == no assets other than cap space lost" versus "trade == assets AND cap space lost" detail.
Also, when that discussion was ongoing, we still thought Horton was coming back this year.
Cowumbus
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WannabeFinn
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EspenK
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A week later to be exact; I was referring to the discussion about adding a F and buying out Umbie. Once that deal went down it kind of set us up on paper with a decent top 6.
Well, the fact that Sharp is a LW, not a RW, douses some enthusiasim for him.
But while a decline may be starting, Sharp also missed just over a month, incurring leg injury in game on Nov 4; returned to lineup Dec 9. So the 31 pts thus far are in 40 games, which projects to 63/64 pts over 82 games. 10 goals projects to 20/21. The 78 pts last year was his "career" year; his average pts for the 6 yrs in which he played essentially full year of games (exclude year of trade, prior injury year and lockout year) w Chi is 63.5pts. He also has seen reduction in minutes, after returning from injury. TOI was 16:42 for month of Dec, 17:03 for Jan, when it was 18:50 in Oct prior to injury and was close to 19:00 last year. The only significant complaint about Sharp last year from Blackhawk writers was short fuse leading to repeated unnecessary penalties (welcome Scotty!); stats show 40 PIM last year, and 11 minor and 1 major so far this year, so not egregious by CBJ standards!
Sharp's Fenwick For % is 55.4% this season, which isn't too far off his career average. Unfortunately, the Goals For/Against percentage 5x5 (which is not much more than another way of looking at +/-, which is -7) is only 44.7%, which is a significant dropoff from prior years....who knows what has caused that, could be worrisome. But Sharp would be an immediate upgrade for next year, with a few years left (he's 33), and a contract at $5.5 for 15-16 and $5.0 for 16-17 (cap hit of $5.9M both years) that doesn't seem unreasonable at all. Put him with RyJo, and he stays healthy, he racks up 65-75 pts again for the duration of that contract...Most of us would love the pickup if Sharp is what is needed to put us over the top, but most probably think we're not very close to that point right now, so he's not the right fit (or too expensive). However, CHI could be good trading partner even at deadline - they may or may not want Cam, but they are looking for D, with cap-space issues. We take Sharp, they take one of our vet D's, and that frees up a little (albeit not much) space for them. We will likely need to add Cam or AA, and a pick, although I don't see CHI wanting AA except to trade for someone else. I'd give a 2nd, not a first.
I'm usually more patient - for some reason VERY impatient today. I have thought stay-the-course all along, and have been on board with the "there was nothing positive that could realistically be done" approach all during this season. But haing watched us now, with some (not all) talent back, we just aren't as good as we thought (or the East got much better since last year). With the trade deadline and draft coming, I guess I want to see something significant done. Not blowing it up, but I don't think trading AA, Cam, Tyuts and/or another D is blowing it up. If standing pat is the answer because we think we're close, then Sharp makes us that much better. That is my view, that we aren't that far off, that incredible injuries sucked the life out of this year -- but I do think the season showed that a few pieces were needed anyway - on both the high end and the low end, as it seems we have the middle covered when healthy. For me, Cam has shown he is middle line, not a top end talent.
If I'm wrong and the thing needs blown up, Sharp doesn't necessarily hurt the rebuild with only 2 years left on contract and a 78 pt season only 1 year ago. He would be tradeable if it doesn't work. Now, whether Sharp would waive NTC for CBJ (not sure if modified or full), that's a whole different matter.
Some will think the price for Sharp will be too high now, that we need more depth first. Well, we either have depth in the kids next year, or we buy better depth, but waiting another 3 years to get to the contender stage is beyond me at this point. Set me on fire Viqsi ...
Not at you, laughing with you. Love the spunk, love your loyalty to current players, including Cam. I have no hate for any of them, just want to get better!
all of these may be true and still would not necessarily constitute a reason not to do it
EspenK
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Well, the fact that Sharp is a LW, not a RW, douses some enthusiasim for him.
But while a decline may be starting, Sharp also missed just over a month, incurring leg injury in game on Nov 4; returned to lineup Dec 9. So the 31 pts thus far are in 40 games, which projects to 63/64 pts over 82 games. 10 goals projects to 20/21. The 78 pts last year was his "career" year; his average pts for the 6 yrs in which he played essentially full year of games (exclude year of trade, prior injury year and lockout year) w Chi is 63.5pts. He also has seen reduction in minutes, after returning from injury. TOI was 16:42 for month of Dec, 17:03 for Jan, when it was 18:50 in Oct prior to injury and was close to 19:00 last year. The only significant complaint about Sharp last year from Blackhawk writers was short fuse leading to repeated unnecessary penalties (welcome Scotty!); stats show 40 PIM last year, and 11 minor and 1 major so far this year, so not egregious by CBJ standards!
Sharp's Fenwick For % is 55.4% this season, which isn't too far off his career average. Unfortunately, the Goals For/Against percentage 5x5 (which is not much more than another way of looking at +/-, which is -7) is only 44.7%, which is a significant dropoff from prior years....who knows what has caused that, could be worrisome. But Sharp would be an immediate upgrade for next year, with a few years left (he's 33), and a contract at $5.5 for 15-16 and $5.0 for 16-17 (cap hit of $5.9M both years) that doesn't seem unreasonable at all. Put him with RyJo, and he stays healthy, he racks up 65-75 pts again for the duration of that contract...Most of us would love the pickup if Sharp is what is needed to put us over the top, but most probably think we're not very close to that point right now, so he's not the right fit (or too expensive). However, CHI could be good trading partner even at deadline - they may or may not want Cam, but they are looking for D, with cap-space issues. We take Sharp, they take one of our vet D's, and that frees up a little (albeit not much) space for them. We will likely need to add Cam or AA, and a pick, although I don't see CHI wanting AA except to trade for someone else. I'd give a 2nd, not a first.
I'm usually more patient - for some reason VERY impatient today. I have thought stay-the-course all along, and have been on board with the "there was nothing positive that could realistically be done" approach all during this season. But haing watched us now, with some (not all) talent back, we just aren't as good as we thought (or the East got much better since last year). With the trade deadline and draft coming, I guess I want to see something significant done. Not blowing it up, but I don't think trading AA, Cam, Tyuts and/or another D is blowing it up. If standing pat is the answer because we think we're close, then Sharp makes us that much better. That is my view, that we aren't that far off, that incredible injuries sucked the life out of this year -- but I do think the season showed that a few pieces were needed anyway - on both the high end and the low end, as it seems we have the middle covered when healthy. For me, Cam has shown he is middle line, not a top end talent.
If I'm wrong and the thing needs blown up, Sharp doesn't necessarily hurt the rebuild with only 2 years left on contract and a 78 pt season only 1 year ago. He would be tradeable if it doesn't work. Now, whether Sharp would waive NTC for CBJ (not sure if modified or full), that's a whole different matter.
Some will think the price for Sharp will be too high now, that we need more depth first. Well, we either have depth in the kids next year, or we buy better depth, but waiting another 3 years to get to the contender stage is beyond me at this point. Set me on fire Viqsi ...
Well said. We can stick Foligno or Hartnell on the right. I mean one of them played there a whole bunch when they were Joey's wingers.
I don't think Sharp is available at the deadline; Hawks are strong Cup contenders, they are not giving up a key guy then.
But in the off-season when cap concerns come home to roost someone has to go or they aren't going to be able to re-sign everyone. Sharp for Cam would free up 3 mill + depending on Cam's new deal. Throw in a pick or a prospect and its a deal that could work. Or substitute Anisimov for Cam and it gives the Hawks a good 2nd/3rd C but doesn't save them as many $. I think he would be a good pick up for us.
Again, like wanting Iginla last year, my logic is that he would hold a top 6 spot for the next 2 years as the prospects develop. Then a decision to re-sign or let him go could be made.
Cyclones Rock
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- Jun 12, 2008
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Well, the fact that Sharp is a LW, not a RW, douses some enthusiasim for him.
But while a decline may be starting, Sharp also missed just over a month, incurring leg injury in game on Nov 4; returned to lineup Dec 9. So the 31 pts thus far are in 40 games, which projects to 63/64 pts over 82 games. 10 goals projects to 20/21. The 78 pts last year was his "career" year; his average pts for the 6 yrs in which he played essentially full year of games (exclude year of trade, prior injury year and lockout year) w Chi is 63.5pts. He also has seen reduction in minutes, after returning from injury. TOI was 16:42 for month of Dec, 17:03 for Jan, when it was 18:50 in Oct prior to injury and was close to 19:00 last year. The only significant complaint about Sharp last year from Blackhawk writers was short fuse leading to repeated unnecessary penalties (welcome Scotty!); stats show 40 PIM last year, and 11 minor and 1 major so far this year, so not egregious by CBJ standards!
Sharp's Fenwick For % is 55.4% this season, which isn't too far off his career average. Unfortunately, the Goals For/Against percentage 5x5 (which is not much more than another way of looking at +/-, which is -7) is only 44.7%, which is a significant dropoff from prior years....who knows what has caused that, could be worrisome. But Sharp would be an immediate upgrade for next year, with a few years left (he's 33), and a contract at $5.5 for 15-16 and $5.0 for 16-17 (cap hit of $5.9M both years) that doesn't seem unreasonable at all. Put him with RyJo, and he stays healthy, he racks up 65-75 pts again for the duration of that contract...Most of us would love the pickup if Sharp is what is needed to put us over the top, but most probably think we're not very close to that point right now, so he's not the right fit (or too expensive). However, CHI could be good trading partner even at deadline - they may or may not want Cam, but they are looking for D, with cap-space issues. We take Sharp, they take one of our vet D's, and that frees up a little (albeit not much) space for them. We will likely need to add Cam or AA, and a pick, although I don't see CHI wanting AA except to trade for someone else. I'd give a 2nd, not a first.
I'm usually more patient - for some reason VERY impatient today. I have thought stay-the-course all along, and have been on board with the "there was nothing positive that could realistically be done" approach all during this season. But haing watched us now, with some (not all) talent back, we just aren't as good as we thought (or the East got much better since last year). With the trade deadline and draft coming, I guess I want to see something significant done. Not blowing it up, but I don't think trading AA, Cam, Tyuts and/or another D is blowing it up. If standing pat is the answer because we think we're close, then Sharp makes us that much better. That is my view, that we aren't that far off, that incredible injuries sucked the life out of this year -- but I do think the season showed that a few pieces were needed anyway - on both the high end and the low end, as it seems we have the middle covered when healthy. For me, Cam has shown he is middle line, not a top end talent.
If I'm wrong and the thing needs blown up, Sharp doesn't necessarily hurt the rebuild with only 2 years left on contract and a 78 pt season only 1 year ago. He would be tradeable if it doesn't work. Now, whether Sharp would waive NTC for CBJ (not sure if modified or full), that's a whole different matter.
Some will think the price for Sharp will be too high now, that we need more depth first. Well, we either have depth in the kids next year, or we buy better depth, but waiting another 3 years to get to the contender stage is beyond me at this point. Set me on fire Viqsi ...
Nice post.
I'm assuming that the only reason that the Blackhawks would trade Sharp is due to the Kane and Toews deals kicking in next year.
He'd be great with Johansen and would provide a multiple-Cup winning leadership that the team doesn't have. As you pointed out, his scoring PACE this season isn't bad. He has some miles left in his tank no doubt. Given the winger issues this team has, JK would be foolish to at least not throw his hat into the ring on a player with Sharp's credentials.
I don't know what the Hawks would want for him, but I'd assume it would be more than Cam Atkinson.
EspenK
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In a non-cap world they would want more, but then again in a non-cap world they wouldn't be forced to shed players.
Cam, a prospect and a pick might get it done because of the economics.
Chicago is somewhat over the cap barrel so they aren't dealing from a position of strength.
WannabeFinn
Beloved One
Cyclones Rock
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True that is. Cam straight up would shed between $3.5-$4m per season in cap hit over the next 2 years for the Hawks. Sharp has a cap hit of 5.9m.
http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/chicago-blackhawks/patrick-sharp/
Your proposal might get it done. I don't know.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I'm not at all concerned about what wing he's on, to be honest. My biggest issue with Sharp is that he's a short-term solution to a long-term problem. I'm not fully convinced he'll still be around by the time some of our kids are ready to go and learn from the guy.
I don't object to picking him up (ha ha ha
)... but if we do I don't want to be doing so by sending away one of our roster wingers.Chicago has been searching for a #2C for quite some time. Brad Richards right now is filling in, but he's not going to last for very long. I submit that interest in Anisimov might be higher than you might expect.
Whatever roster player goes back, tho, they'll unflinchingly insist on Rychel being part of the deal. Been discussing this with Chicago fans for quite some time now, and that bit has so far been non-negotiable.
We're presently missing our #1D, our up-and-coming top-line LW (possible future C), two of our better bottom-6 guys, and our starting goaltender. And have been shuffling guys in and out all year constantly. That tends to have an impact on team chemistry.
Truer words have never been spoken.
This sort of thing, alas, is why ridiculous prices can be commanded by sellers at the trade deadline. Because it's a Big Thing and folks want to be part of it.
I think what we need most at this point is a replacement for what Horton was going to bring, and some work to bring our fourth line up to the level most folks would consider acceptable for a third line. That's it. IMO Cam fits that just fine as a second-line RW who can pitch in on the top line now and again. Don't trade him just because we hoped he'd be better; what he is is still useful.
Set me on fire Viqsi ...
Okay!
I have no objections to improving the team on principle; I just don't think this apparent focus on trading Cam is the right direction. I keep seeing all sorts of ideas on "we can get this guy and that guy", but I've yet to see one actual depth chart. "Hope that someone earns it in camp" is not a roster stocking plan. That's why I object. Yes, everybody was awed and impressed by how well Rychel did in his debut, but unless a miracle occurs - and we've been awfully short on those lately - I guarantee many of those same onlookers will be shocked and appalled by how much he'll have "regressed". We still don't know how to watch kids developing without overreacting, and shouldn't be making decisions based on those impulses.
If Chicago needs to get out of cap hell this summer, and we can ultimately get a deal done like Cam for Sharp, then I say that's great. Given the age difference, and the $4.5m difference in salary, I wouldn't add to that. Definitely not Rychel. Arty for Sharp might also work but not both him and Cam.
With the cap stagnating there are a lot of teams automatically out of the running for Sharp, we might not have much competition if we're interested.
With the cap stagnating there are a lot of teams automatically out of the running for Sharp, we might not have much competition if we're interested.
IWhatever roster player goes back, tho, they'll unflinchingly insist on Rychel being part of the deal. Been discussing this with Chicago fans for quite some time now, and that bit has so far been non-negotiable.
You don't actually think that the fans have any clue what their front office would want for a prospect in return do you?
I can't say what their front office will insist on, but it's pretty safe to say that even the idiots of the hockey world know the Jackets would never agree to that. Well other than, maybe, some homer Chicago fans.
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