Collapse of the PAC-12: Oregon State & Washington State left in the dust

[No Fun Shogun]

Their goal's not to punch everybody. It's to punch the ones that the Big Ten thinks are poachable.

And the Big Ten could've added Mizzou easily when they took Nebraska (and, quite frankly, should've taken them over Nebraska), but they weren't interested and I don't think there's and interest there nor is there a reciprocal want from Mizzou.

Big Ten and SEC aren't losing members.

And the Big Ten's also not going after Notre Dame. ND's NBC deal is worth less than what individual member schools get from BTN and isn't a measurable market expansion for them.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Their goal's not to punch everybody. It's to punch the ones that the Big Ten thinks are poachable.

And the Big Ten could've added Mizzou easily when they took Nebraska (and, quite frankly, should've taken them over Nebraska), but they weren't interested and I don't think there's and interest there nor is their a reciprocal want from Mizzou.

Big Ten and SEC aren't losing members.

And the Big Ten's also not going after Notre Dame. ND's NBC deal is worth less than what individual member schools get from BTN and isn't a measurable market expansion for them.

There's a difference - Nebraska lost their AAU membership at the same time they joined the Big Ten much to the conference's irritation. Missouri is still AAU.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

There's a difference - Nebraska lost their AAU membership at the same time they joined the Big Ten much to the conference's irritation. Missouri is still AAU.

I'm aware, but they were an AAU school then, too. Mizzou was practically begging the Big Ten to let them in and the Big Ten just turned their nose up at them despite the academic and geographic fit and it being an expansion into a much larger market than Nebraska.

The Big Ten's chance to get them has passed, and I've never seen any indication since that the Big Ten has changed their tune on Mizzou nor is Mizzou desperate to join any more.

Again, barring a total collapse of the NCAA, neither the Big Ten nor the SEC are raiding each other. There isn't a financial reason for schools to leave their established rivals for a new conference in that circumstance.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I'm aware, but they were an AAU school then, too. Mizzou was practically begging the Big Ten to let them in and the Big Ten just turned their nose up at them despite the academic and geographic fit and it being an expansion into a much larger market than Nebraska.

The Big Ten's chance to get them has passed, and I've never seen any indication since that the Big Ten has changed their tune on Mizzou nor is Mizzou desperate to join any more.

Again, barring a total collapse of the NCAA, neither the Big Ten nor the SEC are raiding each other. There isn't a financial reason for schools to leave their established rivals for a new conference in that circumstance.

I once thought the Pac-12 would never lose any schools because of the geographic locations of their members compared to the rest of the Power 5. Look what happened.

If Pac-12 schools moving to other conferences is possible, then certainly the Big Ten can poach two SEC schools that are in the AAU. Missouri and Vanderbilt joining the Big Ten would be a far bigger headline than Oregon, Washington, UCLA, or USC, as it would mark the first time the SEC has lost members since Tulane left in 1966, nearly 60 years ago. This would open the door to Oklahoma State to join the SEC, and preserve Bedlam in the process, with another Big 12 school needing to be poached to maintain an even number of members. And again, I would think CBS would want the Big Ten to add Missouri and Vanderbilt to keep access to home games of those two schools once the SEC bolts for ABC. Fox would in turn lose access to Oklahoma State once they join the SEC.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I once thought the Pac-12 would never lose any schools because of the geographic locations of their members compared to the rest of the Power 5. Look what happened.

If Pac-12 schools moving to other conferences is possible, then certainly the Big Ten can poach two SEC schools that are in the AAU.

Not at all. Pac 12 was assumed to be safe, but they’ve bungled everything so badly since they refused to expand into the Big Twelve that they shattered their brand. That in turn caused the LA schools to be interested in leaving, and them leaving was a mortal blow.

Despite their history, the Pac 12 never brought in the cash that the Big Ten or SEC did, nor have those conferences been so incompetently run. The SEC is not getting poached barring an utterly enormous reversal of fortunes that’ll be years in the making.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Not at all. Pac 12 was assumed to be safe, but they’ve bungled everything so badly since they refused to expand into the Big Twelve that they shattered their brand. That in turn caused the LA schools to be interested in leaving, and them leaving was a mortal blow.

Despite their history, the Pac 12 never brought in the cash that the Big Ten or SEC did, nor have those conferences been so incompetently run. The SEC is not getting poached barring an utterly enormous reversal of fortunes that’ll be years in the making.

There is a reason "never say never" is a thing. For many years after 1982, it was assumed that the only way an FBS program would leave the subdivision would be by dropping football altogether. There seemed to be no interest in any FBS program voluntarily dropping to FCS. But Idaho did just that in 2018 (and at the time, I thought they should have dropped football altogether instead, which would have made them the first flagship state school to do so since Vermont over four decades before, and only the second overall, as well as the first full Big Sky member without a football program since Gonzaga left in 1979, but their dropdown finally paid off last year with an FCS playoff appearance).

Another thing once thought impossible that later did happen was major sports leagues getting into Las Vegas. The city has the Golden Knights and the Raiders now and is on the verge of getting the Athletics.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

What does a minor school Idaho changing things have to do with this conversation? We’re talking about multibillion dollar mega conferences that can basically print money with guaranteed massive TV paydays. Unless Larry Scott or George Kliavkoff get jobs with either the Big Ten or SEC, neither conference is involuntarily losing teams.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

What does a minor school Idaho changing things have to do with this conversation? We’re talking about multibillion dollar mega conferences that can basically print money with guaranteed massive TV paydays. Unless Larry Scott or George Kliavkoff get jobs with either the Big Ten or SEC, neither conference is involuntarily losing teams.

I'm saying things that one assumes can never happen can end up happening anyway.

 

[KevFu]

I get the safety of "never say never" but no one's leaving the Big Ten or SEC unless its for the other one (and it would really only be the AAU schools leaving the SEC for the Big Ten).

While "no one thought the Pac-12 would blow up" is totally true, the Pac-12 had so many issues that the Big Ten doesn't have, never had, or never will have.

The Big Ten doesn't have the time zone disadvantage the Pac-12 did. They didn't bungle the rollout of a TV network with a massive expense they're still paying off like the Pac-12 did; and at the end of the day...

The Big Ten has the most enrollment of any conference, by a massive margin. Enrollment become alums, alums are core fans, who will likely follow whatever the future of broadcasting sports is. AKA, they have the most viewers and pretty much always will.


In general, the philosophical statements like "No one would leave FBS for FCS" is always going to depend on a variety of factors and how they lineup for a specific school. It's circumstance.

Idaho dropped to FCS because when the Mountain West raided the WAC, the two "duplicates" were left all alone: Idaho (by Boise State) and New Mexico State (by UNM).

The Sun Belt let them play football temporarily, while schools like Coastal Carolina and App State transitioned to FBS. But it just wasn't feasible to be an independent with no one willing to play road games at your school except NMSU.... and your PRIMARY CONFERENCE (Big Sky) is an FCS conference with nearby schools: Idaho State, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, Portland State, Weber State, Northern Colorado.

 

[tucker3434]

My proposal of dividing the playoff bracket along the Mason-Dixon Line has precedent. The NCAA for decades has divided the participants in D2 and D3 championships along regional lines. This used to be done a lot in D1 as well, it still is done but to a lesser extent than in the past (it's not done in D1 basketball anymore for instance).

FBS operates on an entirely different financial scale. The cost of travel doesn’t mean a thing to the college football playoff.

The only current P5 league that the Big Ten has not raided is the SEC. I think if they do, they would go for AAU members that have been established SEC schools for some time so Texas would be out.

Texas A&M would also likely be out because they would want to resume their rivalry with Texas.

This leaves Florida, Missouri and Vanderbilt. CBS would love for the Big Ten to add schools from the SEC as a means of trolling the conference who is set to end its partnership with CBS after this season. Missouri is the only one that is located in the Big Ten's traditional base of the Midwest (and would give Fox Sports access to Mizzou home games for the first time since 2011, their last year in the Big 12). Vanderbilt would bolster the private school side of the Big Ten. Florida brings rich recruiting territory.

They can have Vandy and Mizzou. Mizzou was a mistake. They shouldn’t be here anyway. Vandy… helps out the GPA and gives everyone an extra bye week.

The Big 10 raiding the SEC could ultimately benefit Oregon State and Washington State because the SEC would respond by adding Oklahoma State and another Big 12 school which would likely result in Oregon State and Washington State joining the Big 12.

The SEC will be raiding the ACC next. Unlike the Big10, the SEC hasn’t expanded beyond border states. With NC, VA, and some schools in FL and SC to choose from, that’s where they’d pick from next. Not like any of those guys have any desire to stay where they are.

Edit: got my wires crossed on Oklahoma v Oregon St on that last one. But the SEC would only take Oklahoma St. if they were coming with Oklahoma. The SEC isn’t expanding just for the hell of it. They’ll target a big fish and then maybe another school hitch on for the ride the way Mizzou did with A&M. With Oklahoma already gone, Okie St doesn’t have anyone latch onto. Someone like Va Tech or NC St in a package UVA/UNC/Duke would be the teams that get in.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I get the safety of "never say never" but no one's leaving the Big Ten or SEC unless its for the other one (and it would really only be the AAU schools leaving the SEC for the Big Ten).

While "no one thought the Pac-12 would blow up" is totally true, the Pac-12 had so many issues that the Big Ten doesn't have, never had, or never will have.

The Big Ten doesn't have the time zone disadvantage the Pac-12 did. They didn't bungle the rollout of a TV network with a massive expense they're still paying off like the Pac-12 did; and at the end of the day...

The Big Ten has the most enrollment of any conference, by a massive margin. Enrollment become alums, alums are core fans, who will likely follow whatever the future of broadcasting sports is. AKA, they have the most viewers and pretty much always will.


In general, the philosophical statements like "No one would leave FBS for FCS" is always going to depend on a variety of factors and how they lineup for a specific school. It's circumstance.

Idaho dropped to FCS because when the Mountain West raided the WAC, the two "duplicates" were left all alone: Idaho (by Boise State) and New Mexico State (by UNM).

The Sun Belt let them play football temporarily, while schools like Coastal Carolina and App State transitioned to FBS. But it just wasn't feasible to be an independent with no one willing to play road games at your school except NMSU.... and your PRIMARY CONFERENCE (Big Sky) is an FCS conference with nearby schools: Idaho State, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, Portland State, Weber State, Northern Colorado.

Remember that the University of the Pacific dropped football altogether instead of downgrading because they felt FCS was below their dignity. I felt Idaho didn't need football at all at the time if they really wanted to leave FBS. There were numerous players on the team at the time who came to Idaho specifically to play FBS football and those players opted to transfer.

 

[mouser]

I once thought the Pac-12 would never lose any schools because of the geographic locations of their members compared to the rest of the Power 5. Look what happened.

If Pac-12 schools moving to other conferences is possible, then certainly the Big Ten can poach two SEC schools that are in the AAU. Missouri and Vanderbilt joining the Big Ten would be a far bigger headline than Oregon, Washington, UCLA, or USC, as it would mark the first time the SEC has lost members since Tulane left in 1966, nearly 60 years ago. This would open the door to Oklahoma State to join the SEC, and preserve Bedlam in the process, with another Big 12 school needing to be poached to maintain an even number of members. And again, I would think CBS would want the Big Ten to add Missouri and Vanderbilt to keep access to home games of those two schools once the SEC bolts for ABC. Fox would in turn lose access to Oklahoma State once they join the SEC.

The Big Ten doesn’t want Stanford today, yet you think they would want Vanderbilt in the future?

The only way Vanderbilt ever leaves the SEC is if some group of SEC schools pull a Big East move to start a new conference, leaving Vanderbilt and the other left behind schools abandoned. And those abandoned schools will be scrambling to stay together or join lesser conferences than the B1G and SEC 2.0.

 

[GKJ]

Would be willing to bet that Pacific sees dropping football as a mistake.

 

[GindyDraws]

Their goal's not to punch everybody. It's to punch the ones that the Big Ten thinks are poachable.

And the Big Ten could've added Mizzou easily when they took Nebraska (and, quite frankly, should've taken them over Nebraska), but they weren't interested and I don't think there's and interest there nor is there a reciprocal want from Mizzou.

Big Ten and SEC aren't losing members.

And the Big Ten's also not going after Notre Dame. ND's NBC deal is worth less than what individual member schools get from BTN and isn't a measurable market expansion for them.

The Big Ten already has two schools in Indiana, plus if they wanted Notre Dame that badly, they would have invited Stanford.

 

[GindyDraws]

I get the safety of "never say never" but no one's leaving the Big Ten or SEC unless its for the other one (and it would really only be the AAU schools leaving the SEC for the Big Ten).

While "no one thought the Pac-12 would blow up" is totally true, the Pac-12 had so many issues that the Big Ten doesn't have, never had, or never will have.

The Big Ten doesn't have the time zone disadvantage the Pac-12 did. They didn't bungle the rollout of a TV network with a massive expense they're still paying off like the Pac-12 did; and at the end of the day...

The Big Ten has the most enrollment of any conference, by a massive margin. Enrollment become alums, alums are core fans, who will likely follow whatever the future of broadcasting sports is. AKA, they have the most viewers and pretty much always will.


In general, the philosophical statements like "No one would leave FBS for FCS" is always going to depend on a variety of factors and how they lineup for a specific school. It's circumstance.

Idaho dropped to FCS because when the Mountain West raided the WAC, the two "duplicates" were left all alone: Idaho (by Boise State) and New Mexico State (by UNM).

The Sun Belt let them play football temporarily, while schools like Coastal Carolina and App State transitioned to FBS. But it just wasn't feasible to be an independent with no one willing to play road games at your school except NMSU.... and your PRIMARY CONFERENCE (Big Sky) is an FCS conference with nearby schools: Idaho State, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, Portland State, Weber State, Northern Colorado.

And yet we have Conference USA, which consists of schools so unwanted by the others for various reasons (poor locations like New Mexico State and UTEP, absolutely no effort to make athletics relevant like Florida International or Middle Tennessee State, or are just extremely toxic a brand like Liberty or Louisiana Tech) that you're only joining because it's not the MAC.

So the current pipeline of schools going from FCS to FBS will be them joining a lesser conference to pad out the stats and hoping they get good enough for an American Athletic to poach them. But as I've said in other threads, if you're west of the Mississippi, that's a problem due to the travel. And these super conferences mean less buy games available for scheduling.

 

[Spydey629]

And yet we have Conference USA, which consists of schools so unwanted by the others for various reasons (poor locations like New Mexico State and UTEP, absolutely no effort to make athletics relevant like Florida International or Middle Tennessee State, or are just extremely toxic a brand like Liberty or Louisiana Tech) that you're only joining because it's not the MAC.

So the current pipeline of schools going from FCS to FBS will be them joining a lesser conference to pad out the stats and hoping they get good enough for an American Athletic to poach them. But as I've said in other threads, if you're west of the Mississippi, that's a problem due to the travel. And these super conferences mean less buy games available for scheduling.

I understand Liberty (even though their alums are insanely loyal, and everywhere), but why is LA Tech toxic?

 

[KevFu]

Remember that the University of the Pacific dropped football altogether instead of downgrading because they felt FCS was below their dignity. I felt Idaho didn't need football at all at the time if they really wanted to leave FBS. There were numerous players on the team at the time who came to Idaho specifically to play FBS football and those players opted to transfer.

Pacific didn't feel FCS was "below their dignity".... it's was a pure money decision.

- Pacific as a private school, had 4x the scholarship costs of "peer schools" (San Jose St, Fresno St, Utah St, Nevada, Boise State in FBS; or UC Davis, Sacramento St or Cal Poly in FCS).

- Football requires a stadium that isn't old, decrepit and borderline "needs to be condemned."

- ALL their facilities were trash. They weren't going to get recruits to be competitive in anything without spending Hundreds of millions of dollars.

Dropping from FBS to FCS "saves" like a million bucks in scholarships and reduces the size/scope of what capital improvement projects you need to compete for recruits in terms of facilities by a few million more.

But dropping football completely means you ditch 170 total scholarships from your athletic department, you bulldoze the condemned football stadium and DON'T build a new one. And the commitment you need to be competitive in other sports requires TENS of millions instead of HUNDREDS of millions of dollars.

(And you can trust me on this one, I know people who were in the room for that decision)

 

[LadyStanley]

Sources: ACC presidents meeting on conference expansion to include Cal, Stanford and SMU

Three weeks of deep exploration into a three-team expansion plan including Stanford, Cal and SMU appears to coming to an end.

sports.yahoo.com

Ah

 

[KevFu]

And yet we have Conference USA, which consists of schools so unwanted by the others for various reasons (poor locations like New Mexico State and UTEP, absolutely no effort to make athletics relevant like Florida International or Middle Tennessee State, or are just extremely toxic a brand like Liberty or Louisiana Tech) that you're only joining because it's not the MAC.

So the current pipeline of schools going from FCS to FBS will be them joining a lesser conference to pad out the stats and hoping they get good enough for an American Athletic to poach them. But as I've said in other threads, if you're west of the Mississippi, that's a problem due to the travel. And these super conferences mean less buy games available for scheduling.

I THINK you're referring to Idaho's drop to FCS with this?

Idaho was shut out of the FBS conference that had Boise State, Utah St, Nevada-Reno, Wyoming, Colorado State and Air Force nearby.... but there was an FCS conference with Eastern Washington, Portland State, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State, Weber State and Northern Colorado right there.... which was their PRIMARY CONFERENCE for all other sports already.

C-USA is the "entry point" for FCS schools moving up -- that used to the be the Sun Belt, but the SBC leapfrogged them (mainly because C-USA replenished their conference with "markets" that had bad teams in them, so no one watched anyway, while the Sun Belt was "stuck" with small college towns with directional state schools in good recruiting areas that just played good football (like App State and Coastal Carolina and others).

Before THAT, the "entry point" conferences for FBS was the Big West... which is how Idaho went FBS to begin with. The Big West needed programs with Long Beach, Fullerton and Pacific dropping football and losing members like Fresno State, UNLV and San Jose State to the WAC. Idaho was a top I-AA team so they tried to make the jump.

It made sense for Idaho to go BACK to FCS because with 11,000 students they were one of the smallest FBS schools, and their stadium seats 16,000, also among the smallest. The NCAA's attendance rules for FBS put them in serious jeopardy of being forcibly sent down anyway.

The reason Idaho is the "First school to VOLUNTARILY drop to FCS" is because all the others were FORCED down by NCAA rules (most notably the MVC and nearly the MAC).

 

[GindyDraws]

I understand Liberty (even though their alums are insanely loyal, and everywhere), but why is LA Tech toxic?

When the Sun Belt was expanding a few years ago, they could have taken in Louisiana Tech, but the various ADs and staff were all "ew! Those are the poor people!" for decades to Louisiana and UL-Monroe despite the fact that Tech has been absolutely irrelevant in sports forever because Tech was in the WAC back when the WAC was relevant. Essentially Louisiana Tech has declined in quality to the point where the Sun Belt would be a better fit for them, but they can't bring themselves to it. And the Sun Belt was all "nah, they can rot".

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

You say C-USA is the entry point for FCS schools to make the jump.

2 things though

1. I want the Sun Belt to add Eastern Kentucky and Stephen F. Austin which are FCS schools now

2. I want Oregon State and Washington State to shun the MW and AAC which would force the former to look towards the Big Sky for expansion.

 

[BattleBorn]

FBS operates on an entirely different financial scale. The cost of travel doesn’t mean a thing to the college football playoff.



They can have Vandy and Mizzou. Mizzou was a mistake. They shouldn’t be here anyway. Vandy… helps out the GPA and gives everyone an extra bye week.



The SEC will be raiding the ACC next. Unlike the Big10, the SEC hasn’t expanded beyond border states. With NC, VA, and some schools in FL and SC to choose from, that’s where they’d pick from next. Not like any of those guys have any desire to stay where they are.

Edit: got my wires crossed on Oklahoma v Oregon St on that last one. But the SEC would only take Oklahoma St. if they were coming with Oklahoma. The SEC isn’t expanding just for the hell of it. They’ll target a big fish and then maybe another school hitch on for the ride the way Mizzou did with A&M. With Oklahoma already gone, Okie St doesn’t have anyone latch onto. Someone like Va Tech or NC St in a package UVA/UNC/Duke would be the teams that get in.

SEC needs Vandy to keep the full conference financial records from being public, the same reason most conferences have/had/kept a private school included like Northwestern in the B1G, Baylor in the BXII, Stanford in the Pac12, etc..

Missouri added STL and KC back when TV markets were a bigger deal for the conference networks and is a fine fit with the SEC. Would be better culturally if Columbia was 50-75 miles more south, but it is what it is and most of the SEC didn't think Arky or SC "fit" until they had aTm and Mizzou to complain about.

I don't think anyone's coming from the ACC to the SEC until the grant of rights thing is figured out, and I don't think any of the secondary schools (NC State, Tech) are coming unless a big 4-6 team package deal is needed to get them to dissolve the conference/end the rights.

You say C-USA is the entry point for FCS schools to make the jump.

2 things though

1. I want the Sun Belt to add Eastern Kentucky and Stephen F. Austin which are FCS schools now

2. I want Oregon State and Washington State to shun the MW and AAC which would force the former to look towards the Big Sky for expansion.

There's probably a case to be made for the PacWhatever to be the next CUSA-type deal. Obviously the current Pac12ers are not excited about it, but when it comes to live sports there's still something to be said for owning a timeslot and the Pac12 still has that opportunity even despite conference/regional networks reduced importance in whatever's going to happen next. I think widespread sports betting can also help out since the west coast games were always the last chance to make a day/week out of your bets and parlays. I don't know how more exciting a Nevada vs San Diego State potential Pac12 game would be compared to the same teams in the MWC, but they'll be the only game on at night and people on the east coast that bet on sports will have a reason to watch and the Pac12 remnants will add a more national audience. UNLV/Nevada/maybe Boise State vs Oregon State, Cal, or Wazzu, for example.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Right now the MW is the quickest path towards the FBS for Big Sky schools. The only alternative is joining the UAC for football and WAC for other sports (like Southern Utah did) but that brings a significantly slower timetable to move to FBS as the entire UAC wants to do so.

 

[tucker3434]

SEC needs Vandy to keep the full conference financial records from being public, the same reason most conferences have/had/kept a private school included like Northwestern in the B1G, Baylor in the BXII, Stanford in the Pac12, etc..

Missouri added STL and KC back when TV markets were a bigger deal for the conference networks and is a fine fit with the SEC. Would be better culturally if Columbia was 50-75 miles more south, but it is what it is and most of the SEC didn't think Arky or SC "fit" until they had aTm and Mizzou to complain about.

I don't think anyone's coming from the ACC to the SEC until the grant of rights thing is figured out, and I don't think any of the secondary schools (NC State, Tech) are coming unless a big 4-6 team package deal is needed to get them to dissolve the conference/end the rights.


There's probably a case to be made for the PacWhatever to be the next CUSA-type deal. Obviously the current Pac12ers are not excited about it, but when it comes to live sports there's still something to be said for owning a timeslot and the Pac12 still has that opportunity even despite conference/regional networks reduced importance in whatever's going to happen next. I think widespread sports betting can also help out since the west coast games were always the last chance to make a day/week out of your bets and parlays. I don't know how more exciting a Nevada vs San Diego State potential Pac12 game would be compared to the same teams in the MWC, but they'll be the only game on at night and people on the east coast that bet on sports will have a reason to watch and the Pac12 remnants will add a more national audience. UNLV/Nevada/maybe Boise State vs Oregon State, Cal, or Wazzu, for example.

I know Vandy isn’t really going anywhere. They’re doing a lot better in the SEC than they would do anywhere else (big 10 would pursue teams with much more attractive athletic departments) and the SEC isn’t going to kick them out.

Yeah, yeah. TV markets, I know. That’s what we were told when they got here. They’re just a weird fit. I’m barely aware they exist despite being in-conference with them. They don’t bring much to the table as far as sporting events that I need to see.

I still don’t think Arky fits. Texas, A&M and Oklahoma would be similar but they’re much bigger brands. USCe at least makes sense from a traditional footprint standpoint. And they play one game a year I care about, at minimum.

I know the GoR is an obstacle. I’d just be surprised if they don’t eventually find a way around it.

 

[KevFu]

Right now the MW is the quickest path towards the FBS for Big Sky schools. The only alternative is joining the UAC for football and WAC for other sports (like Southern Utah did) but that brings a significantly slower timetable to move to FBS as the entire UAC wants to do so.

The WAC is actually the fastest path for them because they are grandfathered in to FBS. The WAC is the only conference that can DECIDE to sponsor FBS and just do it.

Anyone moving up from FCS to FBS has to be sponsored by a conference giving them membership. You can't just go from FCS to FBS as an independent. For ONE SCHOOL, C-USA is the easiest way in, because they have less members than everyone else and are 10th on the realignment ladder...


The whole UAC thing started because the WAC's intentions were to bring FBS back, so they invited schools with FBS aspirations (Southern Utah and the Texas schools). The ASun had the same thing going (Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, Austin Peay). The plan was to have 12-16 of them move to FBS together as the WAC (with New Mexico State and Liberty getting a conference home instead of being Indys).

The ASun schools would be affiliates in football in the "WAC East" and after five years together, they'd be free to "split" from the WAC: With six full members as FBS schools, the ASun would be allowed to just sponsor the sport without approval.


That plan got blown up by Texas/Oklahoma... the Big 12 invited 3 American schools, so they raided six C-USA members, and C-USA invited NMSU, Liberty from Indy... but also Jacksonville St, Sam Houston, and Kennesaw St moving up from FCS.

The 10 teams of the UAC can still move up to FBS, but the ASun needs two more to execute the split.