Collapse of the PAC-12: Oregon State & Washington State left in the dust

[Big Z Man 1990]

College football is a sh*t show right now

If the Pac-12 is no more next year, the CFP format should be this:

The 6 best teams from the South (as defined by the US Census Bureau, which would include Maryland) would form one smaller bracket within the overall setup, as the Bowden region, named for Bobby Bowden who achieved his greatest fame with Florida State.

The 6 best teams from outside the South would be the Osborne region, named after former Nebraska coach Tom Osborne..

This would ensure a title game that has national appeal as each participant would be from a different region of the country, as well as open up the possibility that a team that didn't win its conference (or the independent Notre Dame) get a first-round bye (which is prohibited under the current planned format).

 

[tucker3434]

If the Pac-12 is no more next year, the CFP format should be this:

The 6 best teams from the South (as defined by the US Census Bureau, which would include Maryland) would form one smaller bracket within the overall setup, as the Bowden region, named for Bobby Bowden who achieved his greatest fame with Florida State.

The 6 best teams from outside the South would be the Osborne region, named after former Nebraska coach Tom Osborne..

This would ensure a title game that has national appeal as each participant would be from a different region of the country, as well as open up the possibility that a team that didn't win its conference (or the independent Notre Dame) get a first-round bye (which is prohibited under the current planned format).

No need to overthink it. With a 12 team playoff, we’re very likely to get a great final. Ratings will take care of themselves. It won’t be like last year where TCU needs to get past one team after already losing their conference final. The last two standing will be very deserving. Unless someone goes out of their way to screw things up. So let’s not do that.

 

[DaveG]

No need to overthink it. With a 12 team playoff, we’re very likely to get a great final. Ratings will take care of themselves. It won’t be like last year where TCU needs to get past one team after already losing their conference final. The last two standing will be very deserving. Unless someone goes out of their way to screw things up. So let’s not do that.

hell I wouldn't even necessarily say that TCU didn't deserve to be there last year, given the chaos that unfolded in all the other conference finals that were relevant (sorry ACC). 12-1, and after USC lost (again) to Utah and Bama missed out on the SECCG, there was nobody else that was going to take that spot.

It will be interesting to see how the first round games play into things. There's a number of teams that could have been major trouble for TCU last year after the play-in round before they even get a chance to upset Michigan.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

If the solution to keep the ACC in tact is to invite Cal and Stanford, two schools right there on the Pacific Coast, then the conference is dead.

But at least some schools have some sense, or are looking for their own interests but either way, some sanity.

Replace Atlantic with America and problem solved!

 

[tucker3434]

hell I wouldn't even necessarily say that TCU didn't deserve to be there last year, given the chaos that unfolded in all the other conference finals that were relevant (sorry ACC). 12-1, and after USC lost (again) to Utah and Bama missed out on the SECCG, there was nobody else that was going to take that spot.

It will be interesting to see how the first round games play into things. There's a number of teams that could have been major trouble for TCU last year after the play-in round before they even get a chance to upset Michigan.

It was a weird year, but a 12 team playoff will ensure that nobody can back into the playoff and be one upset away from the title game. So a boring title game shouldn’t happen again unless we screw it up. If the playoff rules had been around last year, I think TCU would’ve had to beat Washington in round 1, Clemson in the quarters and then UGA in the semis. Rough but it’s basically what the SEC has been doing already.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

My proposal of dividing the playoff bracket along the Mason-Dixon Line has precedent. The NCAA for decades has divided the participants in D2 and D3 championships along regional lines. This used to be done a lot in D1 as well, it still is done but to a lesser extent than in the past (it's not done in D1 basketball anymore for instance).

 

[Spydey629]

Replace Atlantic with America and problem solved!

“America” might get the ACC a lawsuit from the AAC… the initials are close enough as it is.

How about “All” instead of Atlantic?

 

[LadyStanley]

ACC seriously considering adding Stanford, Cal, SMU

A group of ACC presidents met Wednesday morning to discuss finances, one of the sources said.

theathletic.com

ACC to consider adding SMU, Cal, Stanford. 12 of 15 schools must approve additions. May go with performance based payouts. Four schools were reportedly against acquisitions.

 

[LadyStanley]

Sources: MWC, AAC ramp up courtship of Oregon State and Washington State with college landscape still shifting

Commissioners of the two leagues will deliver expansion presentations in the coming days to officials from Washington State and Oregon State, sources tell Yahoo Sports.

sports.yahoo.com

Two more conferences reach out

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Oregon State and Washington State should consider those conferences below their dignity and go indie if ESPN doesn't insist on the Big 12 adding them as a means of shoring up a Pacific Time Zone presence alongside Cal and Stanford in the ACC to match the four PTZ teams that ESPN won't have rights to starting in 2024.

That would force the MW to look towards the Big Sky for expansion. Boise State would definitely be interested in Montana and Montana State joining.

ACC seriously considering adding Stanford, Cal, SMU

A group of ACC presidents met Wednesday morning to discuss finances, one of the sources said.

theathletic.com

ACC to consider adding SMU, Cal, Stanford. 12 of 15 schools must approve additions. May go with performance based payouts. Four schools were reportedly against acquisitions.

Memphis should be added too

 

[KevFu]

My proposal of dividing the playoff bracket along the Mason-Dixon Line has precedent. The NCAA for decades has divided the participants in D2 and D3 championships along regional lines. This used to be done a lot in D1 as well, it still is done but to a lesser extent than in the past (it's not done in D1 basketball anymore for instance).

My friend, you care a lot more about logic, reason, symmetry and order than the Darwinian Capitalists inside sports that only care about the dollars.

 

[KevFu]

Sources: MWC, AAC ramp up courtship of Oregon State and Washington State with college landscape still shifting

Commissioners of the two leagues will deliver expansion presentations in the coming days to officials from Washington State and Oregon State, sources tell Yahoo Sports.

sports.yahoo.com

Two more conferences reach out

This is actually the far bigger story than Stanford/Cal and the ACC. ACC adds two or three members? That's par for the course.

But Washington State/Oregon State have much larger implications and much more factors in "What's the smartest move?"

The smartest thing is to MERGE. Then they keep the NCAA payouts (which the Pac-12 is owed like $46 million through 2029), and the P5 status at least temporarily until that's stripped from them. That's the number one focus for them.

If they merge with the American: Better league, better TV payout, better TV timeslots. Coast-to-coast time slots can bring in more future TV dollars.

If they merge with the Mountain West: Same, but they probably keep more bowl tie ins and the MWC rebrands as the Pac-14.

 

[Sparty]

This is actually the far bigger story than Stanford/Cal and the ACC. ACC adds two or three members? That's par for the course.

But Washington State/Oregon State have much larger implications and much more factors in "What's the smartest move?"

The smartest thing is to MERGE. Then they keep the NCAA payouts (which the Pac-12 is owed like $46 million through 2029), and the P5 status at least temporarily until that's stripped from them. That's the number one focus for them.

If they merge with the American: Better league, better TV payout, better TV timeslots. Coast-to-coast time slots can bring in more future TV dollars.

If they merge with the Mountain West: Same, but they probably keep more bowl tie ins and the MWC rebrands as the Pac-14.

But WSU and OSU can't operate as the Pac Whatever conference until after Stanford and Cal are gone, right?

 

[Spydey629]

Oregon State and Washington State should consider those conferences below their dignity and go indie if ESPN doesn't insist on the Big 12 adding them as a means of shoring up a Pacific Time Zone presence alongside Cal and Stanford in the ACC to match the four PTZ teams that ESPN won't have rights to starting in 2024.

That would force the MW to look towards the Big Sky for expansion. Boise State would definitely be interested in Montana and Montana State joining.


Memphis should be added too

No way. The only national following either program has is Ol’ Crimson being on site for College GameDay week in and week out.

There is a reason that these are the two schools left without a chair. The music hasn’t stopped quite yet, but the phonograph is already slowing down…

The Cougars and Beavers have no cache to make it on their own. No one is going to Pullman in November on their own. They *need* a conference to survive.

Thinking about it… is Stanford does end up in the ACC, does the Notre Dame game count as one of ND’s five ACC games every year…?

 

[joelef]

My friend, you care a lot more about logic, reason, symmetry and order than the Darwinian Capitalists inside sports that only care about the dollars.

Fans demanded that it become Darwinian capitalism buy their a. Lack of outrage over coaching salaries b. Demanded programs to spend money they don’t have so they can get recruits and c. Continue to watch it which in turn empowered fox and ESPN.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

The only current P5 league that the Big Ten has not raided is the SEC. I think if they do, they would go for AAU members that have been established SEC schools for some time so Texas would be out.

Texas A&M would also likely be out because they would want to resume their rivalry with Texas.

This leaves Florida, Missouri and Vanderbilt. CBS would love for the Big Ten to add schools from the SEC as a means of trolling the conference who is set to end its partnership with CBS after this season. Missouri is the only one that is located in the Big Ten's traditional base of the Midwest (and would give Fox Sports access to Mizzou home games for the first time since 2011, their last year in the Big 12). Vanderbilt would bolster the private school side of the Big Ten. Florida brings rich recruiting territory.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

The Big 10 raiding the SEC could ultimately benefit Oregon State and Washington State because the SEC would respond by adding Oklahoma State and another Big 12 school which would likely result in Oregon State and Washington State joining the Big 12.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

There’s really no chance of the Big Ten or the SEC raiding each other barring a total collapse of the entire NCAA.

The Big Ten and the SEC are the haves, everybody else are the have-nots or soon-to-be have-nots.

But even in a scenario where the Big Ten poaches a big prize from the SEC (or vice versa), OSU and WSU aren’t remotely on the tier of money-makers or market expanders from their perspectives.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

There’s really no chance of the Big Ten or the SEC raiding each other barring a total collapse of the entire NCAA.

The Big Ten and the SEC are the haves, everybody else are the have-nots or soon-to-be have-nots.

But even in a scenario where the Big Ten poaches a big prize from the SEC (or vice versa), OSU and WSU aren’t remotely on the tier of money-makers or market expanders from their perspectives.

I think CBS would love that revenge though. Had the SEC re-upped with them the partnership would be turning 30 years old in 2025. That must leave a bitter taste in their mouth.

And right now the Big Ten doesn't have a true Southern presence. While Maryland is in a state classified Southern by the US Census Bureau their part of the state is now culturally Northeastern.

 

[KevFu]

There's no reason to raid each other, and they stand on opposite sides of a philosophical debate on the role of athletics. So Big Z said some very accurate things: Big Ten is only taking an AAU or near-AAU member. And most the SEC isn't. IF the Big Ten added anyone from the SEC, ever, it would be Texas. And that's probably the end of the list.

Fans demanded that it become Darwinian capitalism buy their a. Lack of outrage over coaching salaries b. Demanded programs to spend money they don’t have so they can get recruits and c. Continue to watch it which in turn empowered fox and ESPN.

That's a complete break from reality. You and I both know that raging capitalism WITHOUT RESTRAINT is really bad for the "noble pursuit" of sports and competition. We don't WANT ads on jerseys, we don't LIKE corporate named stadiums and sponsorships. We don't like excessive financial disparity that ruins competition.

But if you're a realist, you know that race cars have sponsors because SOMEONE'S gotta pay for "all this."


The question really is "what can be done to provide restraints?" And unfortunately, that ship has sailed. Say what you will about my takes, but I'm consistent: I think more revenue sharing helps pro sports leagues, and college football and basketball NOW is what you get when there's NONE.

The only way to "Fix" what college sports has become is with a time-machine. You need to go back to 1983 and avoid NCAA vs Oklahoma by having the NCAA sell the TV rights to the schools for 50% of the sale price, then share that equally to create revenue sharing. And while you're there, you put an ironclad rule in that states conferences MUST PLAY a full round-robin or double-round robin schedule in every sport, not to take more than 75% of the team schedule. That would cap conferences at 10 members and avoid expanding for TV dollars.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

I think Vanderbilt would be very much interested in Big Ten membership. They are currently the only private school in their conference. They have not had a private school as a conference rival since Tulane left the SEC in 1966. In the Big Ten they would have Northwestern and USC as conference rivals.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I think CBS would love that revenge though. Had the SEC re-upped with them the partnership would be turning 30 years old in 2025. That must leave a bitter taste in their mouth.

And right now the Big Ten doesn't have a true Southern presence. While Maryland is in a state classified Southern by the US Census Bureau their part of the state is now culturally Northeastern.

Sure, but far more likely targets for the Big Ten to expand their footprint southward are all ACC. Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, and maybe Florida State. The only other option that makes some sense for them is Vanderbilt, as you said, but there’s really no reason to leave one’s historic home when the money on the table’s relatively comparable.

 

[KevFu]

I think CBS would love that revenge though. Had the SEC re-upped with them the partnership would be turning 30 years old in 2025. That must leave a bitter taste in their mouth.

And right now the Big Ten doesn't have a true Southern presence. While Maryland is in a state classified Southern by the US Census Bureau their part of the state is now culturally Northeastern.

CBS doesn't have the financial fortitude to compete with ESPN.

That's really the problem going on now in college sports. The rampant capitalism is one thing, but the reason it's DESTRUCTIVE rampant capitalism is because ESPN is the only one spending the dollars on the college sports regular season.

The other networks let ESPN grow into a massive sports empire with no competition for decades to the point where competing with them is too big of financial risk.

CBS, NBC and FOX basically want Sports for WEEKENDS and the big events.

So NBC just needs Notre Dame, and a split Big Ten/Big 12 package and they're golden. $450m for Saturdays in the fall. Fox is basically the same, but with Big East basketball and Mountain West games added in instead of ND.

Most of what's on CBS Sports is actually games ESPN owns and doesn't have room for, so they sublet to CBS Sports.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

CBS doesn't have the financial fortitude to compete with ESPN.

That's really the problem going on now in college sports. The rampant capitalism is one thing, but the reason it's DESTRUCTIVE rampant capitalism is because ESPN is the only one spending the dollars on the college sports regular season.

The other networks let ESPN grow into a massive sports empire with no competition for decades to the point where competing with them is too big of financial risk.

CBS, NBC and FOX basically want Sports for WEEKENDS and the big events.

So NBC just needs Notre Dame, and a split Big Ten/Big 12 package and they're golden. $450m for Saturdays in the fall. Fox is basically the same, but with Big East basketball and Mountain West games added in instead of ND.

Most of what's on CBS Sports is actually games ESPN owns and doesn't have room for, so they sublet to CBS Sports.

And if the Big Ten wants to add ND, NBC will insist on football being excluded from ND's Big Ten membership, even though the Big Ten has resisted such an arrangement for a long time now. But I think NBC - and ND - will get their way with this eventually, once the ACC GOR expires.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Sure, but far more likely targets for the Big Ten to expand their footprint southward are all ACC. Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, and maybe Florida State. The only other option that makes some sense for them is Vanderbilt, as you said, but there’s really no reason to leave one’s historic home when the money on the table’s relatively comparable.

The Big Ten has already raided the ACC though, for Maryland. Raiding the SEC right now would complete their quest of raiding every other P5 conference in the 21st century. Missouri makes sense because they have rivalries with Illinois and Nebraska being a fellow Midwestern school.