Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/MINUS: Pens need a 40 goal lead to close it out! (Pens/Bs)

[TooManyHumans]

This team is simply bad and any thought that this season is going to end well is insane. If they make the playoffs they will go out early and pathetically again. Just accept it.

 

[PensPlz]

So what changed from last year's playoff series against the Rangers?

Absolutely nothing. Blowing 2 goal leads because of a coach who refuses to trap or change his system depending on the circumstances of the game.

 

[Icarium]

Daily reminder that the Pens still have ZERO wins against another teams starting goalie this season

How many times are you going to repeat this nonsense? Vejmelka is the Coyotes starting goalie (and often their best player). The Pens are terrible enough in reality, no need to make up stuff to make them look worse.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It blows my mind how anybody can be, like, throwing a tantrum and word-barfing obscenities after losses anymore. If you're still viewing this team through the scope of the core being 26/27 and a perennial Cup threat despite being out in the 1st round four consecutive years... Well that's on you for being a dipshit. /shrug

 

[TooManyHumans]

So what changed from last year's playoff series against the Rangers?

Absolutely nothing. Blowing 2 goal leads because of a coach who refuses to trap or change his system depending on the circumstances of the game.

It couldn't be more obvious that Sullivan has no answers and his shelf life with this team is expired. Unfortunately it could also not be more obvious that Sullivan is going to coach this team no matter what, almost certainly to another first round exit if they get lucky enough to make it.

 

[eXile3]

It kind of feels like Hextall built a different defense than the one Sullivan coaches. Hextall went heavy and slower, Sullivan is still try to coach it like he has MM & Marino skating back there.

Sullivan is going to need to let go of this speed game. The team isn’t built for it anymore.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

At some point, we as a group have to stop laying the fault of everything at Sully's feet. I say this as someone who has questioned whether he was the right coach anymore after the Isles sweep in 2019, and absolutely wanted him fired immediately after he coached the Pens to a loss against the Habs in the play-in. He's gonna be around longer than Sid and Geno. The team loves him, ownership loves him, he's extremely well respected around the league and is considered near the absolute top of his profession. It's too late to fire him, and even if they did, I'm not sure the next coach would get any better results from this roster. Sully is by no means perfect, and again, I've wanted him fired for years. That being said, a coach can only prepare guys so much. At some point, the players have to take over and do their jobs. Maybe these guys just can't do it anymore. I think that's probably closer to the truth than some weirdo tin-foil hat thing where Sullivan is holding back this juggernaut team that's right on the cusp of more Cups.

The front office has basically stayed the course for years more or less. Ownership, past and present, doesn't see any issue and isn't demanding changes. The core aren't anything close to their prime anymore, so the supporting cast simply has to be better--and because of cap and available assets, that's an impossibility. The assistant coaches in charge of special teams and defense are not doing their jobs.

This is what the end of an era winding down looks like. It's not always an explosive end with guys getting shipped out for futures and the team diving straight into a rebuild. The team's chosen to let it play out like a slow, dry fart a la Detroit's teams 10+ years ago. The good news is that it's only gonna get worse for the next 4-6 years. Fun stuff.

 

[pistolpete11]

If the players like Sully so much (which I don't doubt), maybe they should leak some things to the press that he's on the hot seat If you like him so much, play like his job depends on it.

 

[Zbynek]

Hey bonehead........Where did I say he was "the problem right now"
But it is A problem, as in ONE problem (read slowly now) that Hextall believes "Petry makes our blue line better" haha !! Watched him in Montreal for years , he stinks. Hockey IQ in the toilet.
Habs D better without him already.

Thanks so much for your valuable contribution to our thread. Go back to French Canada, no one cares dude.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

You bring back the same guys who can't get it done any more, and you bring back the same coaching staff that has no answers any more...like, what was anybody expecting? The time to put this thing out of its misery was after the Rangers series and they inexplicably and laughably doubled down.

A lot of people had convinced themselves of the same thing, conveniently blaming the goalie injury and ignoring the bigger problems this roster had. I thought the changes over the summer on D would help the team play more soundly overall, but why was it the goal of GMRH to just keep this team together at all costs? You'd think this was 2018, and not 2022. Not even a Rust level shakeup trade to be had in the past few years.

 

[Pens x]

At some point, we as a group have to stop laying the fault of everything at Sully's feet. I say this as someone who has questioned whether he was the right coach anymore after the Isles sweep in 2019, and absolutely wanted him fired immediately after he coached the Pens to a loss against the Habs in the play-in. He's gonna be around longer than Sid and Geno. The team loves him, ownership loves him, he's extremely well respected around the league and is considered near the absolute top of his profession. It's too late to fire him, and even if they did, I'm not sure the next coach would get any better results from this roster. Sully is by no means perfect, and again, I've wanted him fired for years. That being said, a coach can only prepare guys so much. At some point, the players have to take over and do their jobs.

The front office has stood basically stayed the course for years more or less. Ownership, past and present, doesn't see any issue and isn't demanding changes. The core aren't anything close to their prime anymore, so the supporting cast simply has to be better--and because of cap and available assets, that's an impossibility. The assistant coaches in charge of special teams and defense are not doing their jobs.

This is what the end of an era winding down looks like. It's not always an explosive end with guys getting shipped out for futures and the team diving straight into a rebuild. The team's chosen to let it play out like a slow, dry fart a la Detroit's teams 10+ years ago. The good news is that it's only gonna get worse for the next 4-6 years. Fun stuff.

At some point, you need a change behind the bench or the front office. Both the GM and coach are failing this team. We owe it to the core to try everything to be competitive.

The easiest solution would be to fire Sully. However, we have to sack Hextall before he re-signs some of these players.

 

[pistolpete11]

A lot of people had convinced themselves of the same thing, conveniently blaming the goalie injury and ignoring the bigger problems this roster had. I thought the changes over the summer on D would help the team play more soundly overall, but why was it the goal of GMRH to just keep this team together at all costs? You'd think this was 2018, and not 2022. Not even a Rust level shakeup trade to be had in the past few years.

You might be right that the roster just isn't good enough to get out of the first round. I'd disagree, but there is a pretty big gap between a roster that can't get out of the first round and what we've witnessed the last 5 games.

 

[LOGiK]

That was.....
was.......
oh man.... I laughed at 5 goals. Deep inside, I knew it wouldn't be enough to win.
hahaha... I watch the steelers for the laffs, looky looky... now I've the penguins for laffs.

 

[LOGiK]

And WHAT is D'oC doing on the bruins first goal... trying his best to get the best view of the puck going over the goal line? GET IN THERE AND TAKE A BODY... THE FRONT OF THE NET. hooo man.... ineptitude at maximum capacity.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It kind of feels like Hextall built a different defense than the one Sullivan coaches. Hextall went heavy and slower, Sullivan is still try to coach it like he has MM & Marino skating back there.

Sullivan is going to need to let go of this speed game. The team isn’t built for it anymore.

This was also a thing during JR's tenure. Pens FO wanted to get tougher and bigger and the coaching staff didn't want that.

Honestly, as much as I find the undersized speed game boring now, the thing I'm really annoyed at is that the FO and the coaching staff can't seem to get on the same page.

You might be right that the roster just isn't good enough to get out of the first round. I'd disagree, but there is a pretty big gap between a roster that can't get out of the first round and what we've witnessed the last 5 games.

I'm as big a cynic as you'll find here, but even I find it tough to believe the team is actually as bad as they appear right now. I just don't know what's going on, but it doesn't seem to matter who is in the lineup or what the line combinations or pairings are, this team finds ways to lose when they used to find ways to win.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

What's more realistic; That Sullivan and Hextall are some nefarious/incompetent boogeymen holding back an exceptional team from vying for Cups annually, or that the team's just not good anymore and we've been witnessing the steady decline over the past half decade that comes with the end of every era? Team's cooked. They're not "pick in the top-5 every year for the foreseeable future" bad yet, they still have some playoff appearances in 'em yet, imo, but that's it.

There's no quick fix. Firing Sullivan doesn't magically turn the supporting cast into a buncha effective players, and Sid/Geno back into prime 100+ point players. Firing Hextall doesn't magically fix the cap structure shitshow of like, half the cap tied up in guys well over 30, many 35-plus, and it doesn't magically give the team a bunch of valuable trade assets to reshape the roster to be more effective. People have to let go of their lazy, convenient go-to of "everything sucks and is a problem but the actual players on the ice".

We're watching the 2011 era Red Wings. A slow, steady decline of a team locked into older players. Maybe they make the playoffs a couple more times, but it won't be anything more than a "Thanks for showing up, tee time's at 8am" trip to the post season anymore. Oh well. Can't complain after watching two of the best players ever to play hockey do their thing for almost 20 years, and scoring 3 Cups along the way.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, I do think the FO and coaching staff bear some responsibility here-- the line combos, ice time, pairings, the breakouts, special teams... these are all a mess. The roster has tons of dead weight on it, some of which was imposed by JR but others of which were signed/traded for by the current regime.

The players should be playing better too, of course. But when the tough times come, that's what coaches are supposed to do-- coach. And GM's are supposed to manage. Right now, this team looks absolutely rudderless and disheartened.

At the end of the day, I don't expect Sid or Geno to carry lines anymore. But I also don't expect the coaching staff should make their jobs harder. I don't expect Letang to anchor the blueline, but that doesn't mean that he should be playing 25+ a night with an obviously washed Dumo. It's just so self-defeating.

 

[Andy99]

Changes on D didn’t help Sullivan play the way he prefers…our transition out of our zone has gotten worse…also our goaltending hasn’t been good enough to start the season…two biggest issues imo…

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - The best players are doing their part, the others, not so much

www.hockeybuzz.com

 

[HandshakeLine]

I wonder who is more ludicrously resistant to change- Sid or Sully?

 

[Zbynek]

3.2 million for Kapanen ladies and gentlemen

 

[Gurglesons]

Changes on D didn’t help Sullivan play the way he prefers…our transition out of our zone has gotten worse…also our goaltending hasn’t been
good enough to start the season…two biggest issues imo…

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - The best players are doing their part, the others, not so much

www.hockeybuzz.com

I didn’t really see an issue with transition team wide I think realistically they just play slow as hell. It’s obvious what Sullivan is asking them to do is not working.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think Sully's been the right coach for this team for years. I also don't think changing coaches does a whole lot of anything anymore, that ship sailed, imo. A coach can only get guys prepared, it's up to them once they're on the ice. I don't think another coach gets much more out of this group, if anything at all. Trotz is a hell of a coach but I don't think this team is suited for his style (namely in goal), and it'd just be a more boring product on the ice. Sullivan's big issues are TOI distribution and line combos, for sure, and they *are* problems. I just don't think he's torpedoing the team, I think the team's just pretty f***ing mediocre anymore.

I hate that Hextall's whole approach has been to keep the team in a holding pattern without rocking the boat until the era winds down to a close, but it's too late now. Maybe the organization could've yanked on the controls and pulled the team out of its decline when JR pissed his pants and stomped off, but they didn't want to. That's on ownership. They hired a notoriously patient, methodical GM who seems more suited/comfortable in a builder's role as opposed to overseeing a team trying desperately to vie for Cups. Then, new ownership kept him around after the fourth consecutive 1st round loss, so what can you do? If they fire him after this season, which they might considering it's looking like they miss entirely or are another 1st round laugher, I hope they have a plan that isn't just more of the same bullshit. I don't want another JR, spending assets like crazy in stupid trades and signing guys to absurd deals.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think Sully's been the right coach for this team for years. I also don't think changing coaches does a whole lot of anything anymore, that ship sailed, imo. A coach can only get guys prepared, it's up to them once they're on the ice. I don't think another coach gets much more out of this group, if anything at all. Trotz is a hell of a coach but I don't think this team is suited for his style (namely in goal), and it'd just be a more boring product on the ice. Sullivan's big issues are TOI distribution and line combos, for sure, and they *are* problems. I just don't think he's torpedoing the team, I think the team's just pretty f***ing mediocre anymore.

I hate that Hextall's whole approach has been to keep the team in a holding pattern without rocking the boat until the era winds down to a close, but it's too late now. Maybe the organization could've yanked on the controls and pulled the team out of its decline when JR pissed his pants and stomped off, but they didn't want to. That's on ownership. They hired a notoriously patient, methodical GM who seems more suited/comfortable in a builder's role as opposed to overseeing a team trying desperately to vie for Cups. Then, new ownership kept him around after the fourth consecutive 1st round loss, so what can you do? If they fire him after this season, which they might considering it's looking like they miss entirely or are another 1st round laugher, I hope they have a plan that isn't just more of the same bullshit. I don't want another JR, spending assets like crazy in stupid trades and signing guys to absurd deals.

I’m curious outside of the coach and the core which would’ve been odd to break up why you think they are in a holding pattern?

 

[SEALBound]

I didn't read any replies, just came here to post that whatever @Ragamuffin Gunner said, I agree with him.

I feel like there should be a Ragamuffin Gunner Win/Loss AI comment generator.

 

[Gurglesons]

I feel like there should be a Ragamuffin Gunner Win/Loss AI comment generator.

It is. It’s called @Pens x