Post-Game Talk: Cole's Minus/Minus Thread: The Pens duck a win to continue their impressive streak!

[Icarium]

Typical bottom player outrage by the posters here. Totally misguided

When two of your best players suck you lose.

turnover Letang. Flyby, selfish penalty Malkin.

Plenty of people have criticized them in this very thread. Also, once gain you fail to mention Crosby in your complaints. Amazing coincidence that.

 

[ronduguayshair]

Plenty of people have criticized them in this very thread. Also, once gain you fail to mention Crosby in your complaints. Amazing coincidence that.

Well I didn't think he was as bad as #71 and #58. Just my opinion.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Crosby needs to be better, but at the same time maybe they shouldn't saddle a 32 year old just coming off core muscle surgery with arguably the worst linemates among top line centers in the league and expect him to look sharp?

He's at an age where he shouldn't be expected to be the sole source of offensive creativity for his line. And that's when he's NOT coming off of major surgery that's going to affect his explosiveness/strength. The Pens thinking Simon/Sheary is fine for that top line is a bigger issue going forward. Seriously, what other contender has a winger as bad as Sheary/Simon on their top line?

Like I said, he definitely has to be better. But we're also at a stage in his career where we can't expect him to do everything for his line, and if he has an off night, the line sucks. Sheary wasn't the answer, yet that's who JR decided to go out and get.

There's a lot I can reply to this post with:

1. Crosby has played a ton with Zucker, who was the major acquisition and has 5 goals and 7 points in 9 games with the Penguins
2. If Crosby is playing with Sheary and Simon on the top line now (didn't see the end of the game, so that's possible), that's because Crosby wants that. He likes playing with those 2 guys, so that's not "the Pens think Simon and Sheary on the top line is fine", but that's because Crosby wants that
3. Crosby is paid to be the best player on his line. He's paid big bucks, so saying "he's too old to expect him to do everything" or "it's Simon/Sheary's fault that the line is bad" doesn't work at all. He's paid to be the line driver there. He shouldn't be above criticism just because he's Sidney Crosby
4. He's 32, not 45. Saying "he's not at the age where he should be the sole source of offensive creativity for his line" isn't based on any other major superstars as they age

This really just sounds like grasping at anything to not point the finger at Crosby. Crosby's playing like shit right now and his lack of production is the primary reason they've lost 5 in a row. Blaming Sheary/Simon when Crosby's paid the big bucks to produce makes no sense. It's the equivalent of saying that a flat tire is causing problems for a car whose engine blew up and is now engulfed in flames.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We’ll be fighting to get back into the playoffs soon.

Trotman is the worst defenseman

Nah I think the Pens beat the Sharks and Riikola will be in drawing more questions by everyone as to why he was ever benched for Trots. Again.

 

[Pens1566]

Sharey falling down on the opening faceoff was all I needed to see.

Can't believe we wasted Kahun on him. Bad JR.
Can't believe we're playing Trotman over CoughDrop. Bad Sully.

 

[Crosbyfan]

It's the equivalent of saying that a flat tire is causing problems for a car whose engine blew up and is now engulfed in flames.

Well...it did suddenly go off the road and crash right before the fire started...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Well...it did suddenly go off the road and crash right before the fire started...

No, the engine exploded and you got a flat tire as you swerved off the road, and now your car is in flames on the side of the road.

 

[K Fleur]

Sheary falling down is very low on the list of this team’s problems. Dude has had 2 solid games here.

 

[TimmyD]

I don’t know if he’s in 2018 I don’t want to try mode, if that much time off really affects his rhythm at 32, or if he’s just not 100%. Either way, not really good enough right now.

I bet if he got his wubby (Simon) back he would magically perk up. Sid is all about comfort and not having things around him change. That's why you are automatically going to see Jake play with him once he is fully healthy and ready to go. I would be willing to bet a lot of real or fake money that Sid would instantly look better if the lines were

Simon Sid Sheary
Zucker Malkin Rust
Marleau McCann Hornqvist
ERod Bleuger Tanev

And no this isn't me taking a shot at Zucker because I really loved that deal and think he is a great fit here, I just think Sid is way too picky and if something doesn't click immediately he isn't comfortable and it throws him off

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd actually be completely fine with sliding Zucker down to Malkin's wing because Zucker has been awesome for the Penguins so far and Malkin has been way better recently than Crosby. If Crosby's going to suck while being gifted the big acquisition this year, give the big acquisition to someone who will get more out of it and give Crosby his toys in Sheary and Simon.

Zucker-Malkin-Rust is going to be the 2nd line at some point anyway, because Guentzel is definitely going to go back to Crosby's LW, so I don't see any harm in throwing it together now. It doesn't matter if Zucker is playing with Crosby or Malkin because he'll continue being productive here.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Watching a guy live is obviously the purest way to evaluate a talent. I have seen Riikola live 8 times this year and I always find myself focusing on him because I think he does really good things but seems to get jumped by inferior defensemen. I see no real discernible weakness in his game. He can skate and has a decently strong base. He has the ability to move the puck. He will throw a hit to separate a guy from the puck. He effectively uses his body along the boards. He has an active stick.

What is he missing? He can get bullied in front of the net. He can get roasted by guys who can use their edges really well (though I think it's just the element of surprise and he isn't expecting it). He can second guess passes and in turn telegraph where he's going. To me, 90% of his issues are reps and familiarity. I see nothing physically wrong with the guy. He needs time and he needs a steady partner with steady mins. Sully's aversion to him is borderline bizarre.

It's really getting to the point where I'd like the guy to be traded because he's getting a raw deal here, and I think he has a better than 50/50 shot to be an every day defenseman for another team.

Ya, no clue what’s going on there, but it’s very odd.

Playing Trotman absolutely cost them the game yesterday. It’s comical a few people don’t seem to understand that though.

He had two brutal giveaways that you are taught in squirt never to do, and seconds later the puck was in the net both times.

On the first goal he had an easy strong side outlet to Malkin and instead threw it cross ice to no one and a Duck player picked it off the boards... goal.

On the second goal Trotman blindly swatted it up the middle of the ice on his backhand in a total panic... goal.

Sullivan’s decision to play Trotman cost them the game, there is no way around the obvious.

 

[OswaldBates]

Sharey falling down on the opening faceoff was all I needed to see.

Can't believe we wasted Kahun on him. Bad JR.
Can't believe we're playing Trotman over CoughDrop. Bad Sully.

NO Kahun was Traded because Magic Mike didn't want him .... See Ryan Reaves & Ian Cole

 

[ronduguayshair]

Sheary falling down is very low on the list of this team’s problems. Dude has had 2 solid games here.

Yep but we need outrage!

 

[OswaldBates]

I bet if he got his wubby (Simon) back he would magically perk up. Sid is all about comfort and not having things around him change. That's why you are automatically going to see Jake play with him once he is fully healthy and ready to go. I would be willing to bet a lot of real or fake money that Sid would instantly look better if the lines were

Simon Sid Sheary
Zucker Malkin Rust
Marleau McCann Hornqvist
ERod Bleuger Tanev

And no this isn't me taking a shot at Zucker because I really loved that deal and think he is a great fit here, I just think Sid is way too picky and if something doesn't click immediately he isn't comfortable and it throws him off

Sid Picky????? ahahah I think there are 3 letters that define his "Pickyness"

 

[OswaldBates]

Sheary falling down is very low on the list of this team’s problems. Dude has had 2 solid games here.

NO BUT Sheary sucking is

 

[Empoleon8771]

NO Kahun was Traded because Magic Mike didn't want him .... See Ryan Reaves & Ian Cole

No, Kahun was traded because Crosby didn't want to play with him and Malkin and him didn't mesh well. They had a lot of bottom-6 options and wanted another option for a top-6 winger.

 

[TimmyD]

Sid Picky????? ahahah I think there are 3 letters that define his "Pickyness"

You don't think he is incredibly picky about who he wants on his line?

 

[OswaldBates]

You don't think he is incredibly picky about who he wants on his line?

I say OCD

 

[ronduguayshair]

Ya, no clue what’s going on there, but it’s very odd.

Playing Trotman absolutely cost them the game yesterday. It’s comical a few people don’t seem to understand that though.

He had two brutal giveaways that you are taught in squirt never to do, and seconds later the puck was in the net both times.

On the first goal he had an easy strong side outlet to Malkin and instead threw it cross ice to no one and a Duck player picked it off the boards... goal.

On the second goal Trotman blindly swatted it up the middle of the ice on his backhand in a total panic... goal.

Sullivan’s decision to play Trotman cost them the game, there is no way around the obvious.

You missed malkin’s flyby turnover on the second one.

Let’s talk about the whole play not just some of it to make your point.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ya, no clue what’s going on there, but it’s very odd.

Playing Trotman absolutely cost them the game yesterday. It’s comical a few people don’t seem to understand that though.

He had two brutal giveaways that you are taught in squirt never to do, and seconds later the puck was in the net both times.

On the first goal he had an easy strong side outlet to Malkin and instead threw it cross ice to no one and a Duck player picked it off the boards... goal.

On the second goal Trotman blindly swatted it up the middle of the ice on his backhand in a total panic... goal.

Sullivan’s decision to play Trotman cost them the game, there is no way around the obvious.

Yep. Pens looked dominate up until Trotman sucked on the simplest play possible THEN he gets in Murray’s face and the puck deflects off him.

Then goal 3 was another complete miscue by him. Just awful, awful hockey from him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

- Bottom 6 has been completely invisible. Marleau hasn’t looked great. Rodrigues can’t win a face off. Even Tanev looks off the past couple games.

Tanev has been playing pretty poorly for a while now. Only 4 points in his last 18 games and 9 points in his last 33 games, while playing top-9 minutes over that window. I do think it's valid to question how much of that lack of production is due to playing a lot with ZAR, though.

 

[OswaldBates]

No, Kahun was traded because Crosby didn't want to play with him and Malkin and him didn't mesh well. They had a lot of bottom-6 options and wanted another option for a top-6 winger.

There in lies the Problem Sid gets to tell the CS who he wants & who he doesn't want on his line

 

[K Fleur]

This place gives the Pens Facebook page a run for it’s money when we’re on a losing streak good lord.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There in lies the Problem Sid gets to tell the CS who he wants & who he doesn't want on his line

To be fair, I'm pretty confident Kahun wouldn't have fit with Crosby either. He's a line driver that wants to carry the puck, and that just doesn't work on a line with Crosby or Malkin. I don't see a problem in that they traded Kahun, the part to criticize is what they targeted as the return for Kahun. In Pittsburgh, Kahun was never going to be more than a 3rd line and he was going to want a lot of money this off-season.

 

[Gurglesons]

Tanev has been playing pretty poorly for a while now. Only 4 points in his last 18 games and 9 points in his last 33 games, while playing top-9 minutes over that window. I do think it's valid to question how much of that lack of production is due to playing a lot with ZAR, though.

You mean without right